xdogmax

MrPbody

There were two 6.6 litre engines in '77 T/As. Either a 400 Pontiac or 403 Olds. the Pontiac is much easier to find, as anything made from '70 through '79 will bolt right in. The '67-'69 version will also fit with a small mount adapter. The 403 is more difficult to find in good condition.

It would be helpful to know which one came in the car originally, but it's not a HUGE deal. The Pontiac is easy enough to install where the Olds lived.

There's no comparison in performance as stock, and the Pontiac has many more "goodies" vailable to make power. The Olds is a good engine, but not a GREAT engine. 400 Pontiac is what made GTO famous.

If you need help locating stuff, I will be happy to help.

Jim

72blackbird

I just got back into my 'Bird and was amazed at the availability of hardcore parts (forged rods, cranks, aluminum heads, etc) for Pontiac V-8s. The last time I built a Pontiac motor was over 9 years ago, there were some aftermarket parts out then but not like now- prices on forged internalls have come down alot. But what has gone up in price is the OEM stuff, like trim, moldings, and ineterior parts.

You can now build a 400/496 stroker motor with full forged internals. Put a good set of dished pistons ($600 SRP or Ross) in a 400 short block, a SCAT 4.5 stroke forged crank ($700), 6.8 BBC H-beam rods ($450, SCAT or Eagle) and you can run the earlier 72cc heads. It's even better if you use 4x or 6x heads, then CR isn't an issue. If you want to do a budget stroker, use an Eagle 4.25 cast crank ($250-300) and a set 5140 forged Tomahawk rods ($230/set)- that will still give you 468 CID. 4-bolt mains are nice but not necessary, just make sure to use ARP studs for the main caps and it will work just fine (ARP studs clamp down w/ 2x force of stock main cap bolts).

Pontiacs make power with the heads- I'd recommend gasket matching and mild porting if you use stock D-port heads. I'd get them done by a Pontiac builder with a flow bench, so you get real flow numbers for your money. Any good Pontiac builder should be able to get 250/225 cfm from D-port heads. They will also be able to recommend cam, carb, intake, and exhaust based on your needs.

Geno

MrPbody

Geno,

INJUNS ON THE WARPATH!!!

You have no idea... (:- We've been pounding on the aftermarket for years, and they have FINALLY responded. The AllPontiac (allpontiac.com) pieces are the cream of the crop. We've tried the Scat stuff. The forgings are okay, but a bit on the heavy side. Ohio Crankshaft also has some nice selections.

Jim Hand and SA Designs have teamed up to publish "How To Build Max-performance Pontiac v8s". A "must have" for any Pontiac guy or gal. It's a CURRENT study of the ol' Injun. Lots of great information in there. (I wrote Chapter 2, "Building Your Shortblock")

The Edelbrock heads are the easiest to work with and most "sorted out". The KRE (Kaufmann Racing Equipment, Glenmont,Ohio) "D-port" aluminum head is also very good, and has a ton of potential. The AP "Tiger" is the current leader in horsepower production. It's a "high-end" piece, rather pricey. Our Tigers for "The Drunken Injun" (TA/FC, Pontiac-powered) flow 435 CFM @ .850" lift. They make 310 @ .400! Great intake runner. "Lopped" exhaust ports for line-of-sight from the valve to the header. A little over 300 on the exhaust side. Them's BBC numbers! KRE also sells a "High Port", but information is sketchy on those. A new head, "CV-1" ("Canted Valve 1") is to be released this week or next, but the only info out there comes from the people selling them. It looks somewhat like a GM "splayed valve" (SB-2) small block head, but not exactly. We shall see!

We've built MANY of the strokers. The most sorted out rotating "kit" is the Eagle. While the cank IS cast, it can withstand the pounding of a 700 HP engine virtually forever. Pontiac cranks aren't wimpy in the middle like others, so the casting isn't a liability until power levels climb over 800. The rods, bearings, rings and pistons are first-rate quality.

We have a 461 "package" with E-heads and the Comp roller, making about 610 HP and 650 lb. ft. on 93 octane, 800 RPM idle and 13" of vacuum. 3,800 lb. cars are going low 11s/high 10s in street trim!

The SRPs come in the Eagle kits. I'm afraid Ross pistons are quite a bit higher. Jim Butler Performance DOES keep a few "shelf" part numbers, as does Ken Keefer (Ken's Speed and Machine, Brooksville, FL, known as "Pontiac Dude") for a little lower price. The propblem with the SRPs are they're only available in flat tops. The Ross and BRCs are available with a bump or a dish, as well.

We use Comp XE grinds, almost exclusively. Comp has stepped up to the Pontiac "plate". Their solid roller grinds are the best out there for streeters. Avoid the old-school stuff, as things HAVE changed... No more Ram Air IV cams, thank you (unless, of course, you're restoring a Ram Air car...).

Beware the bargain sellers, too. Lots of immitations and lower-grade stuff out there, claiming "just as good". NOT!

The "Tomahawk" line comes from Pacific Performance. Pretty much all imported stuff except the pistons, but not bad. They fill a couple of voids. Their replacement windage tray is the best one out there. The rods are as yet, unproven on a large scale. THEY report success, but we wait for reports from independents before recommending or condemning.

Check us out! The BBC guys are looking over their collective shoulders again! "Who ARE those guys?!" Remember. The last GM engine to give the Hemis ANY trouble at the fuel level were Pontiacs, not Chevys! That was a LONG LONG LONG time ago... (1971).

Keep on 'yakkin'! (that's Ponti-yakkin'!!!)

Jim
www.centralvirginiamachine.com

72blackbird

Jim,
Thanks for the info on what's out there- I'm still in TMI mode, sorting out all of this info. Hopefully I will figure out which way I want to go with my 400 block- thinking pump- gas stroker, maybe 467 or 496. I'm a street guy, but occaisionally I will take my car autocrossing or run some road courses, so I want a motor that will hold up to sustained rpms.

Have you built any Poncho strokers for road race? I hear alot of different things regarding this type of racing, but from my own experience the stock rods aren't strong enough (cranks are okay, but for $700+ bucks I'll go forged). I don't think I need to make 800+ hp, but at some point after my car is ready I want to run the Silver State Classic in Nevada. I need about 600-650 hp for top end runs, but I'd still like the car to be driveable. Any ideas or comments?

Geno

MrPbody

Geno,

I've "PMd" you with specifics. For information purposes, the stock rods weren't good enough for anything "performance" when NEW, much less now, 40 years later... We ALWAYS replace them, even in stockers. Long stroke engines are more for massive torque than extended high rev use. GREAT street engines because they make their power at low RPM. The shorter strokes are better for road racers.

Jim

72blackbird

Jim,
I PM'd you with more questions- thanks for the reply.

Geno