or maybe a good title would have been "Give me a pipeline, or give me death"

The map below, uncovered in the files of the Council on Foreign Relations (http://www.treemedia.com/cfrlibrary/), tells a part of the Afghanistan story that has attracted virtually no attention. Note the proposed pipeline routes and that once the Persian port of Gwendar is reached, the American oil industry is home free. See below for details. Makes you almost regret that you have but one life to give to Unocal.

I don't know how significant this is, but for this information to get ZERO news coverage I feel is significant.

So what you're implying is that the U.S. is really only doing this to run a pipeline through Afghanistan and that the attacks we suffered here are just a mere distraction?:confused:

Originally posted by dre
I don't know how significant this is, but for this information to get ZERO news coverage I feel is significant. That's an odd bit of logic. :confused: My ass gets no news coverage, but somehow I don't think it's significant to the rest of you. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying that this is the 'real war' going on in anyway, or that this is a huge part of this conflict.... But, for us/our media to ignore the significance is interesting. I'm just saying there may be a few more pieces in this puzzle besides the Israel, and Islam, and Taliban, and Usama pieces. There is at least one more piece in the shape of an oil well.

Oil is what makes the world go round...especially in our White house today. Bin Laden got his fortune from his father's construction company in the Mid East... I'd bet that alot of that construction is for the petroleum/natural gas industry...I'd bet most of ALL construction in the Mid East has to do with getting oil out of the ground, and getting that oil to the most accessible spot for the most petrol-consuming nation (hmmm who could that be?) Once the oil reaches the sea, they load it on ships, and they come to the US.

Cheney, up until a few months before taking office, was head of Halliburton, a company that gets alot of petrol construction contracts in the Mid East...aka, a major competitor to the Bin Laden company.

This proposed pipeline goes right through Afganistan... Maybe it is just a coincidence, but to think this thing is that simple... Well, I think that is silly. That's like saying Vietnam was about communism. Let's not forget Afganistan is also one of the world's major heroin producers. Maybe that's another piece?

and SilverS2000, sorry man, but no matter how purty your butt is, this is a little different.... Maybe if you found oil in your culo it would be interesting...


I hope you guys see what I'm saying.... Government make things very complicated, and for this to actually be as simple as it seems, well then, the government is not playing the same game they've played for decades.

on a side note, Halliburton is also a major contractor for the CIA in foreign construction... army bases/air bases etc.

wait i'm a dumbass, somebody explain this to me

the U.S. wants to build a pipe-line through afganhistan.... and they don't want it there so they pull their terrorist attacks, because the bin laden oil company won't be making the money, his competitor will?
am i right?

Originally posted by dre
and SilverS2000, sorry man, but no matter how purty your butt is, this is a little different.... Maybe if you found oil in your culo it would be interesting...LOL! :bloated: Could be. I never look in there... :hehe:

You know, I totally argee that the gov't has agendas up the wazoo. But I don't think that's what the terrorists are worried about. I think they're still pretty focused on the U.S. helping Israel thing.

WHOA WHOA WHOA partner, you could be onto something here. I don't know how much this really changes the game, but just the motivations behind it. For me, I just wish we could kick ass over there, but in my opinion, we have to work carefully because of the fact that when the Soviet Union disbanded, their arms went up for grabs on the black market, for very little cash, and it is a good bet that Afghanistan got its hand on enough nukes to blow half of our population into the afterlife. I don't think they would just send them after us rather than hatching the elaborate plan they used against us on September 11th. I think they have been probing us, feeling us out, as they did with the USS Cole bombing. They're trying to piss us off enough so that they have a good reason to launch a nuke, at least that's what I think. Who knows, maybe they don't have the guidance systems to launch them with pinpoint accuracy. I guess we'll just have to wait until news of what our troops and military activity over in the region is producing, or until the next round of terrorist attacks befalls us.

when are those so called "star wars" defense systems going to be up? They can stop nukes can't they?

I was thinking about those too. But maybe I'm just really behind the times, but I haven't heard much news on them since Reagan was in office. I thought that grandiose schemes for national defense as such kind of died out with the end of the Cold War era.

It would be nice to be able to just attack the Taliban without having to fear nuclear retalliation. And any form of counter air strikes that they would launch.. well I'm sure we could handle those as well.

Well, my other .02 is this. While I'm all for retalliation and getting back at the bastards that did this, I want to make sure that my retalliation is justified. By this I mean, I want to blast the ones responsible. I don't want the "oops, my bust" syndrome to come through and then we have everyone looking at us. They say that they have conclusive evidence of who did what, but won't say what that info is. Now I know that they have to keep things hush, hush, so the enemy doesn't know what we know, but damn, I worry sometimes that I am not getting the whole damn story. Then to have a mistake commited and have to take the blame. It's just my uneasiness with someone in power making decisions and not relaying some info back to us. But like I said, I would not relent on the enemy one bit. Even if they begged for mercy, they would feel it. Those people in the towers begged for mercy and look what it go them. God Bless us all!!

they have solid evidence that it was Bin Laden's doing.... breaking news :D

plus this isn't the first time the Taliban and/or Bin Laden have killed innocent people.... so even if they didn't do this terrorist attack they should still burn in hell (even though they did do it, so they're still going to burn in hell hehe :devil: )

I found this article that claims the Bin laden family has recently invested in the Carlyle Group ('a well-connected Washington merchant bank specializing in buyouts of defense and aerospace companies').

The article is here (http://emperors-clothes.com/news/bushladen.htm)

so, I went to check out this Carlyle Group.
Well, it must just be a huge coincidence, but at this time of war, this defense-type bank is having their website (www.thecarlylegroup.com) 'redesigned'.


on another note-
I just hope this action/war/whatever it officially is, I just hope it is swift, and not too many of our men die. I also hope that our troops do not fall victim to some mysterious illness, like the Gulf-War Syndrome... but this time will be called Afghan Action Syndrome.


The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism - Hermann Goering

okay, that was interesting but you get your news sources off emperors-clothes.com?

plus the bin laden family dis-owned Osama... they don't have much to do with him

emperorsclothes actually stated that part of the article was taken from the Wall Street Journal.
And it is true that the US says that Osama has been kicked out of his family, but still pretty wild.

And, about where i get my news... Normally I get my news from CNN or Fox (of course, all automotive news I get here:D) but when I want news with some substance, I check out emperors-clothes.com or counterpunch.org
As I type this, CNN.com has the headline: 'U.S. tells U.N. campaign could spread', (if you couldn't guess that, well, then turn your brain on)
and counterpunch.org's lead story is: 'The first US air strikes offer clues as to how the war will unfold' (hmm...sounds interesting)

Thanks to the American Way, you are aloud to make your own assumptions as to who is doing some real journalism.

I still want to make sure other forum members know I'm not saying we should not get osama, or the taliban, or whatever it is. Yes, we need to destroy this force. I personally think it would be better to send in a whole crap load of Navy Seals/Spec Ops type teams. It would be better to get Osama if he weren't expecting anything.... WHile he's squatting over some hole in the sand taking a dump, a sniper about 500 yards out ought to turn his head into potato salad.....SPLAT!!:rocket:

Originally posted by dre

I personally think it would be better to send in a whole crap load of Navy Seals/Spec Ops type teams. It would be better to get Osama if he weren't expecting anything....

yeah but then there would be ALOT more casualties... this way me just fly over BOOM BOOM BOOM DONE!! :D :devil:

I agree 100%. But I do think that Osama and the Taliban have made a lot of statements that were very incriminating, to say the least. The scenario ran through my head many times as well, that what if we're barking up the wrong tree with our retalliatory attacks on Afghanistan? In the end, it seems to be a very unlikely scenario that anybody else is, or even could be, responsible. We could be wrong, but I think it's a pretty safe bet.

and even if they didn't do it (which we know they did) but... let's just say they didn't do it, then they still deserve to get bombed. What about the other terrorist actions that have happened? The bombing of the embassy, or the military ship, among others. What we should just ignore those things?

True Gangstarr,
but what did we do in retaliation to those attacks?
Little, or nothing.
How is the WTC Attack any different?
(don't try the 'on American soil' excuse, because US Embassies ARE American soil)
Yeah, I realize a lot more people died,
I guess a few hundred foreigners working for US Embassies are not important enough to the Feds.

There was an episode of the lone gunman last year, when the government was going to use an airplane to ram a building, to boost spending on defense.
I certainly hope this is not what happened (it is most likely not), but it is very convenient for the pipeline. It would never survive if the Taliban are there.

On a side note, some ass in Alaska shot the pipeline, causing the ensuing spill to spoil a fair bit of tundra. He is in jail now.

Originally posted by dre
True Gangstarr,
but what did we do in retaliation to those attacks?
Little, or nothing.
How is the WTC Attack any different?
(don't try the 'on American soil' excuse, because US Embassies ARE American soil)
Yeah, I realize a lot more people died,
I guess a few hundred foreigners working for US Embassies are not important enough to the Feds.

well i guess it just built up, finally we're doing somethin about it

plus that was when Bill Clinton was president... and he's an idiot

This forum has not touched on politics much, and though I am only semi-liberal, I am an avid Clinton supporter. Being as such, I will not stand for him to be called an idiot. Dirt bag, slimeball, what have you, are justifiable, at least to an extent. But an idiot he is not. Get that much right.

Originally posted by JD@af
This forum has not touched on politics much, and though I am only semi-liberal, I am an avid Clinton supporter. Being as such, I will not stand for him to be called an idiot. Dirt bag, slimeball, what have you, are justifiable, at least to an extent. But an idiot he is not. Get that much right.

And just to add to that a bit, while he was in office, no war.:D:D

Bush isn't even a year into it and we're already at war. I heard someone over the radio saying, and I'm not going to get into a political debate here, "Sins of the father handed down to the son". Quite ironic from where I'm sitting.

and here's some stuff to add to DVSs post:

Number of Bushes who have been president: 2
Number of years Bushes have been president: 4.75
Number of wars commenced while a Bush was been president: 3
Number of years between start of Bush era wars: 1.58
Number of targets of wars during Bush years who were CIA assets: 2
Number of targets of wars during Bush years who partly armed by U.S.: 3
Number of wars during Bush years that the U.S. clearly won: 0

Originally posted by dre
and here's some stuff to add to DVSs post:

Number of Bushes who have been president: 2
Number of years Bushes have been president: 4.75
Number of wars commenced while a Bush was been president: 3
Number of years between start of Bush era wars: 1.58
Number of targets of wars during Bush years who were CIA assets: 2
Number of targets of wars during Bush years who partly armed by U.S.: 3
Number of wars during Bush years that the U.S. clearly won: 0

I think that speaks for itself.:D

I totally agree with the fact that the U.S. could definitely have hidden motives. We fought the Gulf War to get our oil back not to free kuwait. If you look at all the nations we give aid to, the list is staggering. Compare it to the list of nations that we get stuff (oil, resources, etc) from they match up exactly. The U.S. as a gov't is extremely selfish.

Oh and the star wars or any other missile defense system is a crock. Don't get me started on this. Just accept that 1) most poor nations that have nukes will have older less stable nukes that are hard to track and destroy and 2) it can't defend against suitcase nukes and 3) it's costs are ridiculous!

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL


And just to add to that a bit, while he was in office, no war.:D:D

Bush isn't even a year into it and we're already at war. I heard someone over the radio saying, and I'm not going to get into a political debate here, "Sins of the father handed down to the son". Quite ironic from where I'm sitting.

so what you don't want Bush to do anything about this?!
hey, why don't we just let them bomb/fly a plane in to the sears tower too? maybe let them kill a couple thousand more innocent americans? :rolleyes:


twist: how is it a crock? NASA has been working on it for a long time
i remember reading a popular science article about it (it was on my dad's desk and i was bored alright!! :D )

Originally posted by gang$tarr

twist: how is it a crock? NASA has been working on it for a long time
i remember reading a popular science article about it (it was on my dad's desk and i was bored alright!! :D )

Below is a portion of a letter I sent to my senator. Sorry about the length enjoy.


The Strategic Defense Initiative Missile Defense System or SDI is a joke. To build a flawed system is fallacy. A national missile defense system could never work. There are four reasons and each of these reasons is a way for an “enemy” to defeat this sixty billion dollar project. The first countermeasure would be to overwhelm the defender. Second would be to hinder warhead identification. Third would be to hinder warhead detection and fourth would be to prevent the defender from hitting the warhead.

To overwhelm the defense would be the simplest countermeasure and would most likely be the most commonly used. One obvious method would be to build and launch more missiles than the defender could destroy. Another way to overwhelm the defender would be to have each missile carry numerous warheads. Each missile would launch the completely independent warhead and thus overwhelm the defender. The use of chemical and biological agents could also be used to distract missiles from their true “nuclear” targets.

Hindering warhead identification could be achieved through numerous methods. Simplest of these methods would be to jam the defender’s radar. A nuke could be launched and detonated in the air. It would create and electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that would disable the defender’s systems. In addition, a nuke could be cloaked in a liquid-nitrogen cover that would prevent infrared identification. The offender could also make the missile “invisible” to radar like the F-117a Stealth Fighter, using radar deflection designs and radar-absorbent material. Furthermore, an offender could attack the very satellites and bases that would detect the launch of a missile.

Even if the warhead can be located and tracked, there are ways to prevent interception. Warheads could be hidden among several objects to prevent positive identification. Cruise missiles, such as the Trident and the Tomahawk, which use a terrain following program and fly only a few hundred yards above the earth would be exceedingly difficult to track and intercept. Thrusters could be added to warheads and would allow for erratic maneuvers for increased difficulty of interception.

Are we to believe that a system that has had three successful tests in 17 years is an achievement? Are we to believe that a system will work even though the physics community has proven that it never can? Are we to believe that a system that even common sense can defeat will work? No! Any country that would even attempt to attack the United States would consider and implement the above stated methods.


I got the above information from a variety of sources. if you'd like me to elaborate on any points I would be glad to.

i don't know if we're talking about the same thing but the star wars project are satellites in space, i don't think an EMP could reach satellites in outer space.
also the star wars project doesn't use radar, i'm pretty sure of that... and also the laser used can detonate the warhead in a short amount of time
hold on i'm gunna try and get some official information about it

Also, the U.S. currently is under the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty signed in 1972 not to create any national missile defense system.

Originally posted by gang$tarr
i don't know if we're talking about the same thing

I'm talking about any national defense system, but also more specifically a missile intercepted by missile system.

but the star wars project are satellites in space, i don't think an EMP could reach satellites in outer space.

Actually, an EMP can be detonated anywhere. It's just a nuke that goes off without hitting the ground. It's just particularly dangerous in earth's atmosphere (descending radiation).

also the star wars project doesn't use radar, i'm pretty sure of that... and also the laser used can detonate the warhead in a short amount of time
hold on i'm gunna try and get some official information about it
Early warning satellites detect the launch with infrared sensors. Then they relay that info off to large phased-array early warning radars (MA, CA, AK, UK, Greenland). They are are not precise and do not have good resolution. They narrow the target area down. That info is dispatched to the satellites of the Star Wars system or to interceptor launch facilities. All ntnl defense systems use radar at some point. While the laser can detonate a missile in a short amount of time, bear these things in mind. The missile is moving at least 4miles/sec. You could also make the missile move erratically or add a bunch of debris that looks like the missile. There are just waaaaaaaaay to many places for one screw up.

Check out the following:
The Ballistic Missile Defense Organization:
www.acq.osd.mil/bmdo/bmdolink.html
THe Carnegie Endowment for the Int'l Peace Non-Proliferation:
www.ceip.org/programs/npp/missiledefense.htm
The Coalition to Reduce Nuclear Dangers:
http://clw.org/coalition/libbmd.htm
Union of Concerned Scientists:
www.ucsusa.org/arms
Federation of American Scientists:
ww.fas.org/spp/starwars

I'll be signing off for the nite, so don't expect any more posts for a while.

I think a missile defense system like the one being discussed, is
A) Against International Law (that treaty we signed)
B) Old 'Cold War' thinking not suitable for modern times....

Think about it. If you were a terrorist, and wanted to make a nuclear attack against the US, the hard part is getting the device. Once you got it, what are you gonna do with it?

Bolt it to the front of a rocket, and shoot across the earth at the largest military power in the world, thereby leaving a pretty clear return address, while hoping the largest airforce in the world doesn't shoot it down.

No way...
You have some guy willing to die for the cause (seems like there might be a few of these guys around) drive the thing over from Canada, or hide in a shipping container, ship to where you want it, and then detonate.

But what would be an even easier/cheaper way to attack? Maybe with the smallest, and some of the oldest weapons known to man- Little microbes...biological weapons.


A good chess player thinks like his opponent.

You guys are funny people. It is the US Government...in 20 years they will be doing documenteries on all the scandales that went on going into this. But till then...who knows whats really going on:confused:

Originally posted by Twist

I'm talking about any national defense system, but also more specifically a missile intercepted by missile system.


I'm sure we're not talkin about the same thing, cause the thing i'm talkin about is not missle to missle, it's just the satellites with the special lasers. They're alot more advanced then what you're talkin about. These haven't been made and probably won't be made till atleast 2010. They are really accurate and could easily do the tasks that you have talked about. ofcourse we won't know till these technologies are ready to go and somebody tries to launch a nuke

Originally posted by gang$tarr


so what you don't want Bush to do anything about this?!
hey, why don't we just let them bomb/fly a plane in to the sears tower too? maybe let them kill a couple thousand more innocent americans? :rolleyes:


Once again, you prove just how inexperienced and incomprehensive you are. Read WTF I wrote and then come back. At what point did I say no retaliation? At what point did I say let them do it again? You know, you're probably the only member in this forum that get's bashed more than anyone else because you talk before you think.

Now, again, for the insanely slow!!:rolleyes: When George(daddy) Bush took office, we had the Gulf War. For all intents and purposes, since I live in the States and you don't, that was more for oil than Kuwaiti Liberation. But you already knew that right?:rolleyes: Now, here comes Clinton, who for all intents and purposes, with his international exposure, managed to run the office of the presidency pretty well. Not that I totally agree with everything he's done, but enough to lower the defecit of this country and do some good in other areas.

Now comes Jr. and basically, in a nut shell, is trying to finish off daddy's work.

Now before you go and run your mouth again about, Oh like they saw this attack coming. Now they didn't see it coming, but at the same time, yeah they knew something was going to happen. Enough that one week before the incident, they managed to warn all overseas embassy's of possible terrorist attacks. Now, as I've said in one previous post, "Sins of the Father, handed down to the son". George's father is a warmonger! That is a fact. Jr. here is a son of a warmonger. Hopefully the bell in your head is ringing now. His dad wants to control more of the oil nations so that he can pretty much milk those lands dry. What other incentive is there than to control all oil producing nations?

Please, end this needless bashing and try to think objectively before you go and run your mouth without comprehending what is being discussed.

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL


Once again, you prove just how inexperienced and incomprehensive you are. Read WTF I wrote and then come back. At what point did I say no retaliation? At what point did I say let them do it again? You know, you're probably the only member in this forum that get's bashed more than anyone else because you talk before you think.

Now, again, for the insanely slow!!:rolleyes: When George(daddy) Bush took office, we had the Gulf War. For all intents and purposes, since I live in the States and you don't, that was more for oil than Kuwaiti Liberation. But you already knew that right?:rolleyes: Now, here comes Clinton, who for all intents and purposes, with his international exposure, managed to run the office of the presidency pretty well. Not that I totally agree with everything he's done, but enough to lower the defecit of this country and do some good in other areas.

Now comes Jr. and basically, in a nut shell, is trying to finish off daddy's work.

Now before you go and run your mouth again about, Oh like they saw this attack coming. Now they didn't see it coming, but at the same time, yeah they knew something was going to happen. Enough that one week before the incident, they managed to warn all overseas embassy's of possible terrorist attacks. Now, as I've said in one previous post, "Sins of the Father, handed down to the son". George's father is a warmonger! That is a fact. Jr. here is a son of a warmonger. Hopefully the bell in your head is ringing now. His dad wants to control more of the oil nations so that he can pretty much milk those lands dry. What other incentive is there than to control all oil producing nations?

Please, end this needless bashing and try to think objectively before you go and run your mouth without comprehending what is being discussed.

Wrong post!!!!

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL


Once again, you prove just how inexperienced and incomprehensive you are. Read WTF I wrote and then come back. At what point did I say no retaliation? At what point did I say let them do it again? You know, you're probably the only member in this forum that get's bashed more than anyone else because you talk before you think.

Now, again, for the insanely slow!!:rolleyes: When George(daddy) Bush took office, we had the Gulf War. For all intents and purposes, since I live in the States and you don't, that was more for oil than Kuwaiti Liberation. But you already knew that right?:rolleyes: Now, here comes Clinton, who for all intents and purposes, with his international exposure, managed to run the office of the presidency pretty well. Not that I totally agree with everything he's done, but enough to lower the defecit of this country and do some good in other areas.

Now comes Jr. and basically, in a nut shell, is trying to finish off daddy's work.

Now before you go and run your mouth again about, Oh like they saw this attack coming. Now they didn't see it coming, but at the same time, yeah they knew something was going to happen. Enough that one week before the incident, they managed to warn all overseas embassy's of possible terrorist attacks. Now, as I've said in one previous post, "Sins of the Father, handed down to the son". George's father is a warmonger! That is a fact. Jr. here is a son of a warmonger. Hopefully the bell in your head is ringing now. His dad wants to control more of the oil nations so that he can pretty much milk those lands dry. What other incentive is there than to control all oil producing nations?

Please, end this needless bashing and try to think objectively before you go and run your mouth without comprehending what is being discussed.


You got valid points there DOC, I guess this dude is an idiot or whatever. But, nobody, and i mean NOBODY really expected this attack, I wasn't really expecting it, were you.

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL


Once again, you prove just how inexperienced and incomprehensive you are. Read WTF I wrote and then come back. At what point did I say no retaliation? At what point did I say let them do it again? You know, you're probably the only member in this forum that get's bashed more than anyone else because you talk before you think.

Now, again, for the insanely slow!!:rolleyes: When George(daddy) Bush took office, we had the Gulf War. For all intents and purposes, since I live in the States and you don't, that was more for oil than Kuwaiti Liberation. But you already knew that right?:rolleyes: Now, here comes Clinton, who for all intents and purposes, with his international exposure, managed to run the office of the presidency pretty well. Not that I totally agree with everything he's done, but enough to lower the defecit of this country and do some good in other areas.

Now comes Jr. and basically, in a nut shell, is trying to finish off daddy's work.

Now before you go and run your mouth again about, Oh like they saw this attack coming. Now they didn't see it coming, but at the same time, yeah they knew something was going to happen. Enough that one week before the incident, they managed to warn all overseas embassy's of possible terrorist attacks. Now, as I've said in one previous post, "Sins of the Father, handed down to the son". George's father is a warmonger! That is a fact. Jr. here is a son of a warmonger. Hopefully the bell in your head is ringing now. His dad wants to control more of the oil nations so that he can pretty much milk those lands dry. What other incentive is there than to control all oil producing nations?

Please, end this needless bashing and try to think objectively before you go and run your mouth without comprehending what is being discussed.

are you havin a bad day or something? what the fuck is your problem?
you start the bashing: "insanely slow"

i wasn't bashing you. You make it sound like all the Bush's do is try to start wars, well wtf do you want him to do? that's my point, if he didn't retaliate then the terrorists wouldn't be afraid to do more damage to the U.S.
did bush start this war? no. The terrorists provoked it.
and i never said they saw this coming, are you fuckin nuts?! I've probably written like 5 posts in other threads about how there was no way we could have seen this coming. I said (in the other threads) that we knew a terrorist attack could happen, but there is no way in hell anybody could even dream of what happened sep. 11th

also you say "since i live in the States and you don't"... well i've lived in the U.S most of my life, and i consider myself an american. I lived in California for over 10 years (in Palo Alto and Irvine) before i moved here

you are such a flamer... cause i never flamed/bashed you at all

Originally posted by gang$tarr

i wasn't bashing you. You make it sound like all the Bush's do is try to start wars, well wtf do you want him to do? that's my point, if he didn't retaliate then the terrorists wouldn't be afraid to do more damage to the U.S.
did bush start this war? no. The terrorists provoked it.


That's the point... DID Bush start the war?
Then you say the terrorists provoked it....
But who provoked the terrorists?
I doubt any organization would waste resources ($ & men) to cause a disaster jsut for the heck of it.... (Well, besdies the CIA.)
Someone must have provoked them. And Bush, well, the Bush regime have a history with Afghanistan, as well as the rest of that region of the planet.


and i never said they saw this coming, are you fuckin nuts?! I've probably written like 5 posts in other threads about how there was no way we could have seen this coming. I said (in the other threads) that we knew a terrorist attack could happen, but there is no way in hell anybody could even dream of what happened sep. 11th


Well, actually, how could our CIA not have known if they were doing their job?
I mean: What are our 'big enemies' right now?
China is a big one, so we are spying on them.
I guess South America (the drug war and all) is spied on by us...
And who else...hmm... Oh, that crazy Islamic sect who have been blowing up US facilites every few years.

I think most of the CIA's h-u-g-e budget should've been going to knowing EVERYTHING going on with the enemy that poses the greatest threat. And that is clearly the terrorist groups.
I wonder if in a few months/years/decades information will come out that we had agents in the Al-Qaeda who could've told us everything preventing this entire disaster, but decided not to because doing so would 'blow their cover'.

And don't let the FBI off on this one, it seems these people where living in our country, and the CIA isn't allowed to play inside the US, the US is the FBI's court...

Maybe that was the problem. The FBI can't keep track of their guns, so how can they keep track of an international terrorist network? But, if the CIA was keeping track of the ones in the US, they can't tell nobody, because then they'd be breaking one of their most important rules. That could've led to the dismantling of the CIA.

well they did know that something was going to happen, but how the hell would they know that somebody is going to fly a plane into buildings? I'm not blaming them because that would really hard to know, i think they should have know more though.... i bet there are alotta big things that they prevented that didn't go in the news, but obviously the bad totally over shadows the good

also the people that flew the planes and lived here didn't have any bad records or anything.... so how could the FBI know they were up to something bad unless they were spying on every person in the U.S.

Originally posted by gang$tarr

also the people that flew the planes and lived here didn't have any bad records or anything.... so how could the FBI know they were up to something bad unless they were spying on every person in the U.S.

The FBI didn't know, but the CIA did. They were on the terrrorist watch list and they still managed to sneak in. With the budget that the CIA has right now, they could've, should've taken the extra steps to make sure that these people did not get in. They used bogus ID's of real people in their country to get in. So obviously what appears to be law abiding citizens is actually someone who wasn't in here to begin with. Now, that they weren't aware of what was going to happen. Explain to me then how they knew that something was going to happen to something "American". They issued the warnings to overseas embassies a week before the tragedies. Granted they didn't know it would happen in our own homeland, but let's point something out.

The planes that were highjacked, were taken simultaneously. In your opinion, you're a air traffic controller responsible for monitoring the airways, you notice 4 different aircraft change course simultaneously and don't respond to your radio messages. What do you do?

They noticed what was happening, but due to the communication barriers set up in this government, the information could not be relayed fast enough. Yeah, they got fighters up in the air, but it was too late by then. So, all this, we didn't know, we weren't prepared in some respects is a bunch of crap. This is one of the most highly technological country's there is, and they couldn't figure it out. That is what pisses me off the most. The fact that no matter how technologically advanced we are, these terrorists used the most unsophisticated means to deliver their blow. The U.S. is embarassed right now because they didn't think of someone using their own toys to get at them. Now they want to take all appropriate actions, which is something that they should've done a long time ago. In this day and age, you can't trust anyone, cause you never know when or where that blow is going to come from.

I don't know if you were here at the time, but a while ago I started a thread about "do you trust everyone 100%". In a way and only by a vague comparison, that thread and what happened here can be somewhat relevant. Think about it.

yeah i totally agree with that.... did i say anything that sounded like i didn't agree with that??

Originally posted by gang$tarr


so what you don't want Bush to do anything about this?!
hey, why don't we just let them bomb/fly a plane in to the sears tower too? maybe let them kill a couple thousand more innocent americans? :rolleyes:


This is what you said that I had a problem with.

Originally posted by gang$tarr

yeah i totally agree with that.... did i say anything that sounded like i didn't agree with that??


Now, with all that behind us. I want retaliation for what these idiots did. By all means, bomb them if need be to weed out Al Qaeda and The Taliban. Let's just keep our force though at a measured pace.



DVS is over and done with this debate.http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/otn/sleepy/jpsleepy.gif

Originally posted by DVSNCYNIKL

Now, with all that behind us. I want retaliation for what these idiots did. By all means, bomb them if need be to weed out Al Qaeda and The Taliban. Let's just keep our force though at a measured pace.
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that's what i want to

i only said that other thing because, you guys were saying that dubya is a warmonger.. and i thought well if he didn't do anything it would be stupid, and if he did do something you guys would call him a warmonger :confused: