The most important suspension component?

Ive heard it is probably the most important and overlooked piece of the handling puzzle; the wheels. Asides from better tires with more grip, what else is beneficial when it comes to upgrading wheels? Is there a such thing as too big in diameter and/or width if you are only concerned with better handling?

That is a good point. Sometimes the saying "bigger is better" is not always the case. Bigger wheels also means more weight, longer braking distances, in some cases the need for camber, which can also impact performance to some degree. You have to really know what your car can handle. When going bigger, a lot of people get bigger brakes also.

Actually... You get better all around performance out of a 15 inch wheel then you do with a 17 inch wheel... Plus you dont have the rotational mass usually with a 15 that you do with a 17.

Yup, so 15s are great for performance, ok on looks. IMO, 16s are excellent for a nice look while still retaining it's less-rotational-weight ability. But whatever floats your boat... :) :flash:

NOT TRUE!!!!!
if you buy some superlight 17 18 or whatever wheels... then it doesnt matter all that much... why you think that touring cars run on bigger rims?
short sidewalls are stiff, and they handle better. wider tires make a better contact patch...
the camber thing isnt too big of a prob... if you are takin corners, you want a little neg... so they flatten out in the twisties...

it is true though, that a heavy 17 will be a. harder to spin, b. tougher on brakes... but if it is runnin wider shorter tires, then you dont need the brakes as much in a corner, b/c the main reason you slow down is b/c of the roll, be it the body or the tires... so if it is stiffer,you dont need to brake, b/c you will sit more upright (the sidwall will) instead or the wheel rolling over on the tire...
so they are beneficial for turnin, but not for the straight line...
lighter rims take less power to spin... which means quicker accel and braking... you have to take into account your daily driving, and what you really like to do when you drive...

The best tuned Honda suspensions I have seen pull the highest lateral Gs with 15" or 16" rims running either 205 or 215 series tires. Not 18s"
There is a misconception, Porsche uses 18" because the suspension was designed that way to make use of that type of wheel.

The Honda Civic/Integra/Accord was designed to run with 14"s/15"s.
I have seen it before.
1.)You take a stock suspension with lets say 14x5" Yoko Avid H4s at 185-65-14" weighing wheel and tire at 40lb a piece. Your 300ft skid pad lateral grip should be .82-.83gs
2.)Then you remove the rims and install
Enkei Zoku 17x7 with 215/40/17" with Yoko AVS intermediates weighed at 46lbs a piece. Can anyone guess what the lateral Gs for that would be? I'll give you a hint, if bigger is better than what part of the second setup would make it perform better than the stock setup?

Originally posted by Dezoris
The best tuned Honda suspensions I have seen pull the highest lateral Gs with 15" or 16" rims running either 205 or 215 series tires. Not 18s"
There is a misconception, Porsche uses 18" because the suspension was designed that way to make use of that type of wheel.

The Honda Civic/Integra/Accord was designed to run with 14"s/15"s.
I have seen it before.
1.)You take a stock suspension with lets say 14x5" Yoko Avid H4s at 185-65-14" weighing wheel and tire at 40lb a piece. Your 300ft skid pad lateral grip should be .82-.83gs
2.)Then you remove the rims and install
Enkei Zoku 17x7 with 215/40/17" with Yoko AVS intermediates weighed at 46lbs a piece. Can anyone guess what the lateral Gs for that would be? I'll give you a hint, if bigger is better than what part of the second setup would make it perform better than the stock setup?



wider wheel patch?

As far as what is good for Hondas, I have been mostly considering 16" wheels, but wouldnt rule out 15"s. Is the difference between 15 and 16 that great? This is of course assuming the same wieght for each set. Also, how about examining the width issue further, is wider always better? (ala Pontiac GP) And just how wide can you get 15/16" wheels?

Dez is completely right..

Progress Auto built a Delsol that would pull an Average 1.013 "G" using 15 inch wheels and 205/50 R15 tires and could only get an Average of 0.940 "G" with 17 inch wheels and 205/40 R17 tires.
Check it out...
http://www.progressauto.com/
Go to the Delsol buildup section.

I chose the 15's my 'rex is currently wearing due mostly to my shallow wallet. A guy at a local speedshop had a set of GSR wheels that he sold me for $250 with tires. They're only 6" wide so they're not that much better than stock (14" by 5") but they look nicer and allow for better tires. I've seen CSP prepared 'rex's pull over 1.1g's with 15" wheels, they were probably wider than mine but hey, i'm cheap! Going to larger wheels with a larger overall diameter than stock will also change your gear ratios, if you drive a 'rex than go HERE (http://crx.honda-perf.org/math/index.html) to see exactly what difference there is.

When you switch from 14-15" wheels to 17's you're also losing some of the added security you get from added sidewall. If you put 17's on a civic with low profile tires it's way easier to damage rims than if they were 15's with not as low an aspect ratio. Most serious autocrossers use 13x8" superlight wheels, not 17" ultralight wheels, they also use really sticky tires... yum

when i mentioned the ultra lite 17s, i wasnt saying that that was the optimal setup...
just like the porsche, you have to have the ideal setup on your susp to take care of those big ace rims... on a honda, smaller 15ish in rims are really good, b/c of the relatively narrow rims you run... that is why an rx7 can run 17x10s, but a del sol runs an optimal 15x7....
and if you watch the btcc at all, they run huge ace rims there... but they are narrow... just a thought...
i dont disagree, and i run 16s, but there are 17s and 18s that are just as lite out there...

my ideal would be spoon rims, but i cant justify 2ks for a set of 16s yet...

Don't forget a key component to upgrading the wheel size. Bigger breaks. You can't squeeze a Big Ass Break Kit (BABK) into a 15" set of wheels.

The reason that touring cars use those HUGE wheels is so they can put on those big breaks.

Also when selecting wheels make sure you get the proper offset...I think that is over looked as well as suspension travel, as far as sticking to the topic. :D

As far as Hondas go there is not really a need for big brake kits IMO, since thier design is to reduce fade, high speed braking, most hondas are not able to reach speeds over 130 mph, even in race conditions, so big kits are not worth the money, it is the caliper design, pads and rotors that reduce fade, which many, companies design, upgraded brake parts that are more than up to the job, without having to throw in 5000$ Brembos.

Yaeh you are right though keep an eye on offset.

Originally posted by flylwsi
..my ideal would be spoon rims, but i cant justify 2ks for a set of 16s yet...

Dont feel bad... me either... Hopefully one day..