Anyways, I'm probaly going to buy a 1980 firebird tommorrow. The guy who is selling it to me, says the guy who sold it to him said it was a rare model they only made 5600 of. like the es-6 or whatever. but I think its a nightrider prototype, because I read that such a vehice had a dial fuel injector switch. (it's a blue button underneath the radio)
Can anyone verify this? because my car does. lol
But anyways, it has 475 horse and 505 torque. it has a chevy 300 something engine is brand new. However, for such a great engine I get a piece of shit car. The paint is horrible, my dad says its primer, that whoever tried to paint it like that. hmm. And also the seats are slashed and the interior needs to be redone. So my question is, would it be worth it to rip seats off an old 1970s firebird(probaly just as bad) or to get a seat from a newer model(80s or possibly 90s) and how easy would it be to buy/reupholster the seats myself? Also any advice on general restortation
As well as websites to go to for buying parts. Would be very nice.

mason

one last thing, my dad says it would be worth it just to buy a car that is already restored, but I think because of the engine that this car is worth it. It's only 1000 dollars. PLus the transmission is new as well.

damn u got me there....but i would like to see pics of this car..hell even with the need of a new painf job and seats and all..it still sounds sweet..hell u can redo all that hit on your own...with sum research

Anyways, I'm probaly going to buy a 1980 firebird tommorrow. The guy who is selling it to me, says the guy who sold it to him said it was a rare model they only made 5600 of. like the es-6 or whatever. but I think its a nightrider prototype, because I read that such a vehice had a dial fuel injector switch. (it's a blue button underneath the radio)
Can anyone verify this? because my car does. lol
But anyways, it has 475 horse and 505 torque. it has a chevy 300 something engine is brand new. However, for such a great engine I get a piece of shit car. The paint is horrible, my dad says its primer, that whoever tried to paint it like that. hmm. And also the seats are slashed and the interior needs to be redone. So my question is, would it be worth it to rip seats off an old 1970s firebird(probaly just as bad) or to get a seat from a newer model(80s or possibly 90s) and how easy would it be to buy/reupholster the seats myself? Also any advice on general restortation
As well as websites to go to for buying parts. Would be very nice.

mason

one last thing, my dad says it would be worth it just to buy a car that is already restored, but I think because of the engine that this car is worth it. It's only 1000 dollars. PLus the transmission is new as well.

You don't sound very car savvy... are you sure he didn't lie about the horsepower ratings? and the engine being new? If the engine really is brand new and has 475 horsepower he would have spent more than 1000 on it... why would he sell a whole car for less than the engine is worth?

yea lets see some pics....

yes...its true i'm not car savvy. which is exactly why i posted this.
And number two, my dad checked it out(hes mechanic). And the engine is legit, plus it makes sense because engines are relatively inexpensive and the guy never claimed it was a fire-bird prototype. He just claimed the guy who sold it to him said it was some rare model like i said and when I saw the blue fuel injector button like i said it made sense. So has anyone seen or heard of such a thing? Because someone online is also selling http://www.oldcartrader.com/ocdetail119068.htm
seee

But I do belive the guy about the engine, it cost him 4000 in all, engine and new transmission. The guy is mechanic as well and so it cost him nothing to put all in. And I believe him, I have a good feel for people. But I will post up pictures haha you'll see why it cost 1000, but its worth considering the engine. Also any advice on reupholstering seats would be appreciated.

buy it, sell the engine, pocket the easy made mulah and smile...end of story

hahaha NO

the interior would not be to bad to do. You can have an upholstery shop do the interior just how you want it. Might cost a lil but would be well worth it in the long run. Turn it into a show car. I'm not car savvy either but love to see and drive nice rides. Stepho, go shock yourself.

if it was tured itd be sweet to drive.. take that thing out for a drive, punch it. if your eyes dont roll back and you dont get a giant smile... it dont got 500 hp..

but in case it does, just take it.. the engine itself is worth more than a grand.. if all else fails, and you have lots of rust all over..invest in a better body..get your dad to help you drop er into a diff car. :)

yeahh thats what i've been saying.

how good is the handling of a 1980 firebird?? one of the reasons i want to keep the actual car is cuz he took the rear axle from a 1969 firebird and put it in as the rear axel. I think cuz it could handle the power much better, considering most of the late 70s firebirds were low hp cars. also the engine and everything is already in there and new. It had an automatic and I was wondering how hard/much would it cost would it be to convert it to a manual?

23 grand? Are you nuts?

Thats not the one he is getting. His needs work.

If it's a 12-bolt rear off a 69, that alone is worth more than a grand to the right person.

I CAN say this... redoing the interior will run you about $4-5k if you do it right - I speak from experience of doing it the cheap way because I refuse to spend that much to have a maro that lookslike everyone else's. Converting auto to stick will be a bitch, but more of a pain in the ass than expensive if you're not including the cost of the new trans ($1000 for a basic used 4 speed in decent shape to $3800+ for a high performance 5/6 speed trans), the conversion kits / parts are there, you just have to buy them and do it yourself.

You're talking about a lot of work there, buddy - redo int, a bunch of bodywork, convert to stick... probably get into some electrical if not re-wiring the whole thing at some point..... If it were me and I was in for the hassle... I'd buy it, and look for a rolling chassis with a good body. Throw this engine in it, sell the auto for like $200-$500 (cause that's all you'll get for it if it's stock) if the new chassis needs a rear, put your 69 in it, if not sell it for $1000-$2000 (to the right person it might be worth more).

Your dad is right... Acquisition cost might be more up front, but it'd be cheaper in the long run if you buy what you want to start with... plus you get to drive it now without making excuses for why it's an eyesore or wishing you had this that or the other-thing done to it.

My 2¢.

Good luck.

Oh yeah... heh, an 80 handles like something that is about 27 years old... ok, but I wouldn't road race it unless you made some mod's to the suspension, for normal driving it'd be just fine. If you're planning on abusing it though, I'd definitely upgrade it... if it's never been touched, you might want to freshen things up just for safety's sake... Mo' money, mo' money....

I have to agree with Jimsfat. However with that being stated thee are places out there where you can get new seat coverings. Not just the cheap stuff like you throw in a pickup ,but covers that are made to order custom fit , I think you have to pull the old covers off and re-istall new. I was looking for covers for an` 87 and found a site just can`t remember where.....lol

the interior would not be to bad to do. You can have an upholstery shop do the interior just how you want it. Might cost a lil but would be well worth it in the long run. Turn it into a show car. I'm not car savvy either but love to see and drive nice rides. Stepho, go shock yourself.

I am not that savvy either... but I hate to see people get ripped off. Your buying a whole car for a fourth of what the guy claims to have paid for the engine and transmission alone? I'm not going to say its unheard of... things happen and cars have to go quickly, but I would be careful buying it.... ah hell I'd probably buy it for a grand anyway.

Post some pics if you can though. Oh and sorry if I sounded mean, I wasn't trying to be... i've been ripped off before and I would hate to see it happen to someone else. Sounds like a hell of a bargain if everything is legit, though. Good luck.

Guys.. Guys...

An '80 Firebird (2nd gen) is completely dissimilar to "Knight Rider" ('82, 3rd gen). The '80 T/A mostly came with the 301 Turbo-charged Pontiac (a cute little engine, but no match for the year before it). Some had 305 Chevys. I don't believe I've seen any equipped any other way but those two.

2nd gen T/As are among the best handling production cars, not only of their era, but period. This is NOT a Camaro, and regardless of what the Chevy crowd wishes to believe, they are NOT "the same". The complete homologation of Firebird didn't happen until '82, when they became "Cheviacs"... The 2nd gen cars were known to put .95 G's down with good tires. They actually had better handling performance than any future F-body. For a car with a "live" axle, nothing can touch them.

The T/A "aero" treatment wasn't for "looks", either. Formula had a drag co-efficient significantly higher than T/A. Camaro was worse, yet.

You must remember, this was the end of the era, where GM divisions weren't all in one bucket. Pontiac had much more freedom of design for their line, than they do today. The result was cars with a very different "personality" and definitely superior overall performance potential than other GM offerings, including Corvette (a '79 T/A with a 4-speed would run away and hide from a '79 'vette...).

A small block (300-something) Chevy making 475 HP is no picnic to drive. Even a "400" is pretty rowdy at that level of tune, particularly if it's built to use 93 octane fuel (street engine).

Just to clarify.

Jim

Jim hows it been buddy long time no see...thanks for the info a long time on my t/a i wish you could see it now.. Anywho nice to see you still stick around here.

yeah thats why I asked about the handling, I read it had really good handling. But on a second note, all I'm saying is it has a stock fuel injector dial in device underneath the radio and does anyone know what it means or have they ever see/heard one on a 1980/send gen.. Also the guy claims the guy before him said it was some rare type of firebird, and that he didnt believe him so the guy gave him all the paperwork. if this is in fact true, I will tell you more details and Pictures!! yeahhh!!!

also I'm deciding between painting it red or black. Both look really good on the car if you do it right. I don't want black seats with a black car, you know? But if i get a red car, a black interior would look good right? Or maybe goofy, im not sure. What if I paint it red? But any pictures of interiors of 2nd gen interiors would be nice, also just any advice on where I can get interior parts for it online that are good and cheap would be cool.

also I'm deciding between painting it red or black. Both look really good on the car if you do it right. I don't want black seats with a black car, you know? But if i get a red car, a black interior would look good right? Or maybe goofy, im not sure. What if I paint it red? But any pictures of interiors of 2nd gen interiors would be nice, also just any advice on where I can get interior parts for it online that are good and cheap would be cool.

Im with you i have always liked the "Murder" look on a car meaning black on black. Red on black wouldnt look out of the ordinary either.

Just dont do red on red,. i saw a 2nd gen at a car show tonight red on red, dont like it. i think black on black is just about the sexiest way to do your car, even tho i chose the red on black,

Theres a really good deal for red seats for a firebird that i've found, the seats are in pretty good condiition, and so i'm gonna buy them and then maybe sell them if i decide on a black interior instead.

Sorry if i missed it. but did you get the car? or drive it?

anyways I bought the car under the agreement the guy would put the brakes he bought on it, however his mechanic shop where he works suppousdly won't let him do it cuz you know its wasting shop time and money not received. So i have to wait a few more days, but I haven't even driven the car because he says he won't let anyway driving fearing they'll crash into a tree. so you could say im taking a big risk but i just call it an investment lol. But my dad who is a mechanic checked it out and he's giving me all the paper work. blahblah balh but ill put up pictures and tell you how the devil is.

mason

-the devil thats her name-

You don't sound very car savvy... are you sure he didn't lie about the horsepower ratings? and the engine being new? If the engine really is brand new and has 475 horsepower he would have spent more than 1000 on it... why would he sell a whole car for less than the engine is worth?

Not All true

Just because a car is cheap doesnt mean its bad. I got my car for 800 and i garentee its probably one of the nicest 2nd gens on here. I am also getting a 350 small block with a T-10 tranny for 1000 has less then 30k on it.
the paint is perfect, and the interior is clean. It needs some minor body work but any car that is 27 years old does.The the Chassie is perfect cleaner than my 02 focus.

You can find great deals especially if you are buying direct from seller
my guy was a welder that was tileing his house and ran outa money plus he has a plymouth road runner in his garage.

just because its cheap dont mean your being fooled.

Bparks,

I certainly hope you're talking about a Camaro... If you put a small block in a 2nd gen T/A, I could have about 20 Pontiac-powered 2nd gens that would love to take your money... (ALL on 93 octane!) While the 350 Chevy might be "cheap" (a relative term), it's just "wrong" to morphidize a perfectly good Pontiac. The small block won't run as well in the heavy car, as it mght in a lighter one. "Never send a boy to do a MAN'S job!" While smallblocks make good high-end horsepower, they are not good "torque" engines. HP sells product, torque MOVES CARS. What are we trying to do? Move the car...

Not to desparage your choice, just to let you know, Chevy engines aren't the ONLY ones out there. The small block isn't even the 2ND most powerful street engine from GM. And the T/A will handle better with the Pontiac in it, as that's the way it was engineered. Know any 2nd gen Camaros running 10.40s on 93 octane, and still make enough vacuum for power brakes, and actually NOT beat you to death while driving it? I've got a couple Pontiacs out there doing it, not to mention what some of the other Pontiac shops are building. There's a 2nd gen in Florida running 9.30s on 93, with a 300 "hit" (street legal in FL).

PAX

Jim

Bparks,

I certainly hope you're talking about a Camaro... If you put a small block in a 2nd gen T/A, I could have about 20 Pontiac-powered 2nd gens that would love to take your money... (ALL on 93 octane!) While the 350 Chevy might be "cheap" (a relative term), it's just "wrong" to morphidize a perfectly good Pontiac. The small block won't run as well in the heavy car, as it mght in a lighter one. "Never send a boy to do a MAN'S job!" While smallblocks make good high-end horsepower, they are not good "torque" engines. HP sells product, torque MOVES CARS. What are we trying to do? Move the car...

Not to desparage your choice, just to let you know, Chevy engines aren't the ONLY ones out there. The small block isn't even the 2ND most powerful street engine from GM. And the T/A will handle better with the Pontiac in it, as that's the way it was engineered. Know any 2nd gen Camaros running 10.40s on 93 octane, and still make enough vacuum for power brakes, and actually NOT beat you to death while driving it? I've got a couple Pontiacs out there doing it, not to mention what some of the other Pontiac shops are building. There's a 2nd gen in Florida running 9.30s on 93, with a 300 "hit" (street legal in FL).

PAX

Jim


Jim,

I'll bet you're a real nice guy, and you really seem to know your stuff... but do you intentionally try to piss people off? We know you worship Pontiac engines and cars... lay off a bit, lol.

Jim

who cares seriously old man? For one thing my car has been dynoed at 505 torque which just ruined your bliss over pontaic engines. Another thing it's wicked fast and cheap. Isn't that all that matters? yesss and I saved thousands and you didn't hahahaha

Ok guys lets not start a argument here.

who cares seriously old man? For one thing my car has been dynoed at 505 torque which just ruined your bliss over pontaic engines. Another thing it's wicked fast and cheap. Isn't that all that matters? yesss and I saved thousands and you didn't hahahaha

Haha... what the hell is going on now?

Old man = ME? or Old man = Pbody? Lol, I'm confused.

Haha... what the hell is going on now?

Old man = ME? or Old man = Pbody? Lol, I'm confused.


Is your oldtimers kicking in again???lol

calm down cowboy it was a joke

ALRIGHT... now I'm really confused... who the hell is a cowboy?

Between the IRS (Ohio & Philly) / PA Dept of Revenue / MD Divison of Taxation / DE Div or Revenue and Social Security Administration I am having a very bad morning. Please speak slowly (and small words would help too) and concisely, and please refrain from using vague terminology whilst refering to other members. (WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING TO / ABOUT?)

EDIT - Heh... Mason - you wouldn't happen to be Bi-Polar or hear voices would you?

No, my purpose is not to piss anyone off. I went back and reread what I said. I see nowhere that should upset anyone. I give credit where its' due. That includes the engines that are better suited for specific applications, that may not be Chevys. If it upsets you that there ARE other engines out there, well, sorry... You would think I'm saying: "You gotta use a Pontiac, 'cuz nuthin' else will run". Why is it okay for some kid that tripped over a cheap deal on a small block to say pretty much the same thing about the little (key word here, LITTLE) Chevy. I wouldn't put a Pontiac in a Camaro. It's a two-way street here, bub! And remember you're talking to a professional that's willing to take a little of his day to help educate the hobbyist in a world FULL of myth and superstition.

Please advise specs on a 350 Chevy that makes 505 lbs. of torque (include power adders).

I worship NOTHING. "Worship" involves superstition. I'm just far more experienced than most hobbyists. I build engines for a living, including Chevys. Unless you stole it, there's no such thing as a "wicked cheap" 500 lb. ANYTHING. Of course, a big hit of nitrous can get the little engine up there... Chevys are fine. They belong in Chevys. Raise your hands, how many have 3,500 lb. cars running in the 10s on 93 octane and NO power adders, using production blocks and cranks?

My point is the Pontiac is more docile at higher power levels, making it much easier to actually DRIVE, not necessarily race. Many people like a car that drives like a "normal" car, until you hit the "loud pedal".

And how would this bother anyone here? Isn't this the "Firebird" forum? I would think the more accurate information you have, the better your project will be when finished.

Whoever thinks I'm an "old man", more power to ya! I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good ONCE, as I ever was! Didn't your parents teach you to respect your elders? Haven't you ever heard: "Age and treachery ALWAYS wins over youth and skill" ? (:-

Jim

for godsake listen to yourself cowboy and everyone else here, your just typed a page defending yourself over a car.

Mason

lets not start anything here. MrPbody was not saying anything to warrant that response. No more bull shit or the thread will be closed.

GoldZ,

Thank you...

Jim