I need some honest info on M3. Is the car worth the wait. I'am on the list for 2003. Thanks b-beantown.

The reputation speaks for itself. BMW Motorsports division will not failed you.

Can I have your 540 when you got comfy with your E46 M3? :)

Have you guys got the 850Csi on your side of the pond? 5.2l V12 M engine - one of the finest production engines ever.

You can get a 94 model for £16K - new they were £85K!

Of course it is!!!!
When you get it you'll enjoy it...It's like getting married again.... (-:

The original M3 will always be the greatest. It's not the fastest but it really is a race car for the road... the E36 M3 was fast but was always lacking something, and the E46 is not as dynamically accomplished as the original.. I'm sure theE46 M3 CSL (if it goes into production) would push the original E30 hard for the accolade of being the greatest all time M3.

cheers
jay

Originally posted by crayzayjay
The original M3 will always be the greatest. It's not the fastest but it really is a race car for the road... the E36 M3 was fast but was always lacking something, and the E46 is not as dynamically accomplished as the original.. I'm sure theE46 M3 CSL (if it goes into production) would push the original E30 hard for the accolade of being the greatest all time M3.

cheers
jay

For some reasons I like M1 a lot better than E30 M3. I don't get what you mean by dynamically accomplished?

The E30 was designed especially for track racing.. the bulges and bumps were designed to shave precious tenths off a fast lap of a circuit.. sure the E36 is faster, but by then the "M3" tag had become a marketing tool that BMW hugely profited from.. and quite frankly the car was not at all as good as the original... too heavy, didnt handle as well, etc... In the motoring world it is widely acknowledged that the E30 M3 is the finest drivers' car that BMW has produced, a legend if ever there was one... :cool:
thats what i meant ;)

cheers
jay

I completely agree that the E30 M3 was a great car and it definitely is a BMW legend. But on the other hand the E36 M3 was once said to be the best handling car ever, topping the Ferrari F355 in that particular article. Im not a fan of the increasing weight of the cars either but its hard for the manufacturers to get around this because of ever increasing safety standards, among other things. Then you have the E46 M3 which is even heavier this time around but its engine (the S54) blew everything out of the water at the international engine awards, receiving multiple awards including best overall. So I think each generation is great in its own ways but there is a certain "car evolution" that will always continue. Now individuals may be partial to a certain generation for whatever reason, but the fact is that the E36 is overall a better car than the E30 and the E46 is overall a better car than the E36 and the E30... Or else BMW and all other car makers wouldnt invest hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D, how would that make any sense?
But hey... Ill take any of them right now! ;)

-Ian

black540- to answer your question...yes, the car is definitely worth the wait. Look around at some other dealers though, you shouldnt have to wait that long. Just make sure you get SMGII !!! :eek:

-Ian

just lookit my sig :)

I completely agree that the E30 M3 was a great car and it definitely is a BMW legend. But on the other hand the E36 M3 was once said to be the best handling car ever, topping the Ferrari F355 in that particular article. Im not a fan of the increasing weight of the cars either but its hard for the manufacturers to get around this because of ever increasing safety standards, among other things. Then you have the E46 M3 which is even heavier this time around but its engine (the S54) blew everything out of the water at the international engine awards, receiving multiple awards including best overall. So I think each generation is great in its own ways but there is a certain "car evolution" that will always continue. Now individuals may be partial to a certain generation for whatever reason, but the fact is that the E36 is overall a better car than the E30 and the E46 is overall a better car than the E36 and the E30... Or else BMW and all other car makers wouldnt invest hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D, how would that make any sense?

Come on now... i dont think youre looking at this issue the way it needs to be looked at... Spending money on something and R&D dont always produce a better product. A different one, thats for sure, but not always better. How many people think that Porsche has taken the 911 and f*cked it up? You could try to count them, but youd run out of fingers fast!! The first thing in developing a product, any product, is to determine who it is going to be aimed at, i.e what market. The E30 M3 was perfect for its target customer. The E36 aimed at a completely different customer, one who wanted more refinement and a car that was easier to drive, to live with. The M3 was no longer being developed for the true "petrolhead". And i'm sorry to say, but neither is the E46. Otherwise it wouldnt weigh so damn much. Look at the Lotus Elise. That weighs almost (!) 3 (!) times less than the M3. BMW changed the general direction of development when developing M cars after the original(s). It could have saved weight if it wanted to. But you know what? It didnt bother. And why not? Just 'cos. 'cos its an M. People will buy it anyway. Who cares if its not perfect, right? WRONG!

The "M" in M3 stands for Motorsport. The E30 is a car designed for motorsport, a racer. The E36 M3 really is not... it's faster, but its not as focused at the original... The E30 was honed and tweaked to go fast around the track.. the E36 was designed to be very fast, handle well, but remain comfortable.. in doing so, it had to give a little and in doing so lost some of its edge. It put on weight too, and that didnt help anything.... The E46's engine is sublime, but don't forget that the E30 delivers 220bhp from 2.3 litres.. now that's just as awesome considering it was a decade ago. The E46 seems to be more of a driver's car than the E36, but whether it can match the E30 in terms of greatness is yet to be seen.. people will say "yes, it is great.. look at the engine.. look at how fast it goes.. look at how entertaining it is to drive..." and thats all very good... But like I've said many a time, greatness is not about speed.
And how will it cope in the wet? how chuckable will it be? How does it communicate with the driver? Do you feel at one with the car? Is it an extension of your body? The E30 M3 is superior in every one of these aspects.

Here's a quote from EVO magazine, March'99, which pitted the Z3M against the M3. The E30 had already seen off the E36 M3, so they wanted to see how it would do against the Z3M. The cars were raced around Spa-Francorchamps, a very testing circuit. And oh yeah, it was wet. ;)

A truly great car revels in all conditions. Come rain or shine it's on it. Bang on it. As faithful and progressive on wet tarmac as it is in the dry, still as able to feed you every subtle nuance of available traction, shift of camber, and change of road surface. No surprise then, that the (E30) is inspirational in the wet. I don't think I've ever driven a car that offers so many options in the same corner. You can shift from mild understeer as you peel into the curve, through all-of-a-piece neutrality at the apex to a deft whisker of oversteer as you sight the exit. No unseemly twitches, no unnecessary correction, just fast, fluid, and massively satisfying progress. If you do encounter more of the former or latter there's feel and poise to spare. Consequently you learn to push beyond its initial limits, revelling in its adjustability and progressive nature. If a well dispatched corner doesn't leave you tingling all over, I suggest you take up knitting.
Contrast this with the M Coupé through the same corner and you come straight to the nub of its chassis shortcomings. There's more grip on offer, which is good, and the Coupé can carry more speed, which is better, but where the M3 is sublime on the limit the M Coupé is snatchy and spiteful.

I know these arent the cars being compared here, but the Z3M is generally regarded as an excellent car which handles extremely well. The M3 saw it off with ease.
This is the conclusion to the article.

If the M Coupé truly is the brainchild of BMW M's engineering arm, and not the crayon-wielding designers or fast buck-making marketeers, then this, in my opinion at any rate, is conclusive proof of a collective genius with far too little to do. Perhaps it's an indictment of motorsport rule makers. Perhaps BMW just can't be bothered. Whatever the reason, it's a crying shame these guys should no longer be burning the midnight oil searching for that elusive technical loophole, hand-building engines, homologating front wheelarches with 1mm of additional clearance, fitting solid front wishbone bushes. Dammit, they should be sweating blood creating the ultimate racing car, not building sensationally fast but ultimately flawed freaks. History is the only arbitrer in matters like this. Look back and you'll find the great road cars were put on pedestals are the products of the all-consuming quest for competition success. Quattro, Integrale, Cosworth, original M3; all owe their finesse, tactility, and downright desirability to motorsport. Perhaps BMW would do well to remember what M stands for.

There is no end to how much i agree with that. Ive driven and been driven around in an E30 M3 and the car took my breath away.
The E30 M3 is a far better car than the E36 M3. The E46 M3 is also a better car than the E36 M3, but doesnt match up to the original, the best. It's a fantastic vehicle, but make no mistake about it, it's no legend. It's too heavy, and I come to it again, not as focused, or dynamically accomplished as the original. Its suspension settings are those of a Grand Tourer, and not of a street racer like the E30 M3. The E46 CSL, on the other hand, would be a different animal altogether if it goes into production.
Fingers crossed.

jay