I have a '74 Cougar XR-7 (http://www.cardomain.com/id/sled18) with the 351 Cleveland engine in it, and I am tring to give it some more power by replaceing the 2barrel carb, intake manifold, cylindar heads, and headers. I cannot find any parts online for the Cleveland engine, only for the Windsor? Can any of you guys help me out? Thanks alot.

Have you tried looking in Jegs or Summit Racing? If still nothing buy a PAW catalog for $5. It's about the size of a phone book, but it's a parts catalog.

No you can get some HP out of that Stinking Ford Motor. Replacing the intake manifold and adding a 4 barrel carb will help. Jegs and Summit will do you lots of good.

This is a great motor
you can find all kinds of parts for the 351 if you look under cars like the Pantera there are allot Pantera sites on the internet and there will be plenty of people with used parts also
don't give up on that Motor
if you have trouble finding parts email me we work on lots of Pantera at my shop
tomsautobody@earthlink.net

I'd make sure you have a 351 Cleveland. If the engine matches the car I bet you have a 351M. which is a cleveland family motor but does have some differences from a 351Cleveland. One of which is throwing on a 4 barrel intake and carb do dick to it performance wise sadly

What the hell is with all the 351 names? I have seen 351m 351c 351w. Whats the deal? Yes, Id make sure you have a 351c, I would make sure I didn't in that situaton b/c im not into fords all that much, but what I have heard in the past.....The 351"c" is right for you.;)

351Winsdor, Cleveland and Modified explained. The names and where they came from actually make sense once you know everything. I'll try to give you a good short answer cause writing it all is a pain.

351Windsor: The name windsor comes from the windsor family of ford motors. The windsors are ford small blocks. 289,302,351. What makes a 351W a 351 and not a 302 is increased stroked but no bore increase. So the deck hieght of the motor is raised. Since mostly all parts are interchangable in this family, All those 5.0 parts can go on a 351W.

351Cleveland: Once agian name is gotten from the Cleveland series blocks. The 351C is actually a big block. They 351C was predominantly put in performance cars. It has 4V quenched heads and 4barrel carbs stock.

351M: The M=modified. Ford started making a 400 based on the cleveland family. But do to emission lawss etc.., What Ford did is they destroked the 400 to 351 hence the name modified. The differences between the 400,351m and 351C. The 400/351m have a larger main journal diameter. Due to there use in passenger cars/trucks they have torque making 2V open heads and came with 2 barrel carbs. Do to the head design just putting a 4barrel intake/4barrel carb does not help performance

Ok, Thanks. It makes better sence now.

4 barrel carb

Have fun swaping it, It really is a B****

Have fun swaping it, It really is a B****
No, thats why they make intake manifolds. ;)

Scott, you have never seen a 351C in your whole life and have no clue about what you are saying. Stick to the chevys if you think they are so great.

I will and I shall. They are the best!

Getting better performance out of your 351 Clevo aint all that hard.

4 barrel manifolds are common here in Australia and there are even after market ones offered.

the best mods are to replace your 2 barrel manifold for a 4 barrel, fit a 600 Vac secondary Holley, a mild cam, and extractors. If you have 4v open chamber heads replace them with the closed chamber 302 Cleveland 2V heads (common in Australia).

If your stuck get onto the Ford Forums and poke your way into the Australian section.

make sure you have the 351c and not the 351m first. also in that years you could have the 351w. if you have the 351m, you have a couple of options;
1: yank and install a 400 crank and pistons, the rods are the same, and use the 302c aussie heads and build a good 400.
2: yank it and ddrop in a 460:bigthumb: :bigthumb:
3: add some mods like the 4bbl intake and a cam and aussie heads and live with a decent but not really powerfull motor that does few things well.:bloated: :bloated:

you can tell which option i would choose.

There is a good book on Ford V8's. Ford Performance by Pat Ganahl published by S-A Design Publishing Co in California.

ISBN 0-931472-05-9

This book covers the four main Ford V8's and has been a handy reference for me over the years.

Clevelands when set up properly are more reliable than the equivalent chevy, especially the "2 stroke" oil suckin Gen III's.

Enjoy :cool:

Keep the original heads, unless you are building some ultra-high performance car. The heads that go with the 4 barrel have ports that are oversized for a smallblock engine. The 351 Cleveland was built to be a performance engine, but they went overboard :tongue:

351Cleveland: Once agian name is gotten from the Cleveland series blocks. The 351C is actually a big block. They 351C was predominantly put in performance cars. It has 4V quenched heads and 4barrel carbs stock.

351C uses big block bellhousing pattern, but it is not a big block. Physically, the 351C is only about a half an inch wider, and a quarter of an inch longer than a 351W.

351C uses big block bellhousing pattern, but it is not a big block. Physically, the 351C is only about a half an inch wider, and a quarter of an inch longer than a 351W.


first the 351c is not a big block as stated.
second the 351c DOES NOT use a big block bellhousing pattern. it uses the same pattern as the 351w. the 351m/400 does however use the 429/460 bellhousing bolt pattern.

I could be wrong, but as far as i know the 351 cleveland was never offered with a 2 barrel. It`s a performance motor. NOTHING that was built for performance came stock with a 2 barrel.

I could be wrong, but as far as i know the 351 cleveland was never offered with a 2 barrel. It`s a performance motor. NOTHING that was built for performance came stock with a 2 barrel.

yes you are wrong, the 351c came in both 2 and 4bbl versions. the 351m/400 were 2bbl only.

i stand corrected

The 351 cleveland was avaliable with a 2 and 4 barrel carb. 71-73 mustangs that came with the 351c were built stock with a 2 barrel carb and 2v heads unless you went up to the Q-code option that upgraded to a 4 barrel carb with 4v heads and a optional C6 automatic transmission. Options for different models of cars or different years might be different but that what i know about 71-73 mustangs.
*Im restoring a 73 mustang mach 1 Q-Code option with a 351c 4V HO,
4 barrel carb, and a C6 automatic transmission.

74 was the last year for the Cleveland. offered both in 2v and 4v models.
weather its a 351 cleveland, 351M or even the 400.
they share distributors, timing chains,cams, heads and aghaust manifolds 2v aghaust manifold and 4v aghaust manifols 4v's work great on 2v heads but are getting hard too find

2V heads are good up too 450HP have 2.04/ 1.65 valves have open chamber 76cc except the alstralian version which has closed chamber 64cc usually 1.5 points of compression difference.

4V heads have huge ports are good up too 600+hp but poor low end torqe have 2.19/1.71 valves in the closed chamber heads 2.04/1.65 in the open chambers usually.

parts they also share are rocker arms and distributor with the 429/460
rocker's will even swap with a BB chevy if you have screw in studs installed

the 71 BOSS named Cleveland was the most powerfull small block in its time.
I forget fords rating but it made over 370hp yes faster than a 70 LT1 camaro!!!!! half a car lengh in the qaurter mile 13 something on stock tires.
and weighting about 400 pounds more.

no matter which motor you have they all can make a easy 400hp with todays cams and such.

sense your car is a 74 it has 2v open chamber heads get the 2v alstralian one's will raise your compression from its 8to1 compression too 9.5to1 perfect for the street have them machined for screw in studs if they dont already have them. add a 4v intake for 2v heads a set of header's or 4v aghaust manifolds and a cam with 225 intake 235 aghaust duration @.050 and there's your 400hp

and no clevelands are not big blocks although they are called that a lot as the heads make then look big

I'd make sure you have a 351 Cleveland. If the engine matches the car I bet you have a 351M. which is a cleveland family motor but does have some differences from a 351Cleveland. One of which is throwing on a 4 barrel intake and carb do dick to it performance wise sadly

The 351M did not appear until 1975 model year. The Cleveland was common through 1974.
The engine does not know if it is a 351M or a 351C. The same 2V heads are found on both. The same cam/intake/carb, etc. will make near the same power on a 351M or a 351C. Both are 4.00" bore and 3.50" stroke.
The largest differnce is the intake manifold availability. You can use the 351C intakes on 351M/400 engines with Weiand or Price Motorsports adapters.

351C uses big block bellhousing pattern, but it is not a big block. Physically, the 351C is only about a half an inch wider, and a quarter of an inch longer than a 351W.

The block of a Cleveland actually has a shorter deck than a 351W. The larger heads and manifolds are what cause the width differences.
The 351C shares the small block bell pattern.

The 351 cleveland was avaliable with a 2 and 4 barrel carb. 71-73 mustangs that came with the 351c were built stock with a 2 barrel carb and 2v heads unless you went up to the Q-code option that upgraded to a 4 barrel carb with 4v heads and a optional C6 automatic transmission. Options for different models of cars or different years might be different but that what i know about 71-73 mustangs.
*Im restoring a 73 mustang mach 1 Q-Code option with a 351c 4V HO,
4 barrel carb, and a C6 automatic transmission.

The M code 351-4V engine (1970 - early 1971 model year) came with the FMX transmission.

4V heads have huge ports are good up too 600+hp but poor low end torqe have 2.19/1.71 valves in the closed chamber heads 2.04/1.65 in the open chambers usually.

All 4V 351C heads (open and closed chamber ) including the Boss came with 2.19 intake and 1.71 exhaust valves until late 1973 into 1974 model when they went to the 2V valve sizes (D3ZE casting number head).

All 4V 351C heads (open and closed chamber ) including the Boss came with 2.19 intake and 1.71 exhaust valves until late 1973 into 1974 model when they went to the 2V valve sizes (D3ZE casting number head).

Not true either. The 351C's that were available in the trucks and the 351C equipped Mach1's in '71 were available in the 2bbl configuration.

I know this because I had one, and built the engine to 420hp/435ft.lbs of torque back in '93 for a Fox Body Mustang I was building.

Here's a full list of all the parts that I used...

- Crane Fireball 5200 cam.
- Edelbrock Performer Intake gasket-matched to ported heads.
- Holley 750 Mechanical Secondary Carb
- Heddman Headers for '71 Mach one. (took some modifying to get to fit in a '80 Fox Body)
- Port/Polish/Shave/3-Angle Valve Job on stock 2 barrel heads
- New Valves, seats and pushrods
- Forged Ford Motorsports pistons and rods (12.5:1)
- Factory Nodular Steel Crank
- MSD Electronic Ignition
- 1.6:1 Rocker Arms
- Solid Lifters
- FluidDampr Harmonic Balancer
(NOTE: Don't attempt to run an this setup on pump gas with less than 92 octane fuel or you will open the gates of detonation hell!)

This engine lasted me 4 years of daily driving plus two trips to California from Seattle not to mention racing at Seattle Int'l Raceway and Sears Point during the seasons.

The low end torque generated by the 2 barrel heads is unreal from idle but it does fade rather quickly though higher in the rpm ranges and IMHO the redline 5400rpms is a bit too soon for my taste. Rev it any higher than that without some serious valve-springs and roller rockers and the valves float like you wouldn't believe.

Just my experiences with the motor.

[QUOTE=GTR2b]Not true either. The 351C's that were available in the trucks and the 351C equipped Mach1's in '71 were available in the 2bbl configuration. QUOTE]

I never said that the 351C was not available in a 2V configuration. The Mustang 2V Cleveland was the H code. There was no 351C 2V truck motor. The 351M was used in trucks and cars.
My quote that you replied to is 100% factual.


Here it is for you again. It only speaks of the 4V heads which were used exclusively on 4V motors.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Mercracer
All 4V 351C heads (open and closed chamber ) including the Boss came with 2.19 intake and 1.71 exhaust valves until late 1973 into 1974 model when they went to the 2V valve sizes (D3ZE casting number head).

[QUOTE=GTR2b]Not true either. The 351C's that were available in the trucks and the 351C equipped Mach1's in '71 were available in the 2bbl configuration. QUOTE]

I never said that the 351C was not available in a 2V configuration. The Mustang 2V Cleveland was the H code. There was no 351C 2V truck motor. The 351M was used in trucks and cars.
My quote that you replied to is 100% factual.


Here it is for you again. It only speaks of the 4V heads which were used exclusively on 4V motors.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Mercracer
All 4V 351C heads (open and closed chamber ) including the Boss came with 2.19 intake and 1.71 exhaust valves until late 1973 into 1974 model when they went to the 2V valve sizes (D3ZE casting number head).

My Bad.

Sorry about that, long day at work today. You are correct about the valve sizes. Also, don't forget to mention about the Compression Ratio drop in '72 to 8.5:1 I believe.

Yeah......in 72-73, not only did you have an open chamber, but the Ford dorks put in a dished piston. The early 72 engines still had a flat top piston with the open chambers.
One thing I found interesting is that some of the old Cleveland drag racers used the open chamber heads with a pop up piston for compression, because the valves were unshrouded more with the open chambers, so they claimed that the heads flowed better, and made more power.

The first thing to remember is ford built and put in whaterever they thot would sell a car. So you could special order order any thing according to what they had to offer that year, ford also was famous for carring over discontinued stuff till it ran out. Trust me I have been working on Ford and souping them up for over 25 years and working on a poorman's budget you learn to find what fits. To any one fixing anything it pays to do good research and use relaible sources, opinions are going to cost you, find proof and those that know what they are doing will give you the resource they used. And to the moderator what do you consider a stock mustang, and what is a LS1? cant be that good I never heard of it.

first things first. What does your vin# say?
Note: a ford vin number will tell you all sorts of information about your car.
You should be able to find out that H would be the code for a 2v cleveland (or winsor) in a 1971-73 mustang and that should also be the code for a 2v cleveland in your '74

The 351M did not exist in 1974. The 400 did. That is the M or modified part. They took a 400 and M'ed or modified it. This is not a good thing in this case. The 351M is best used in a truck for towing as it develops descent low end torque but because of the stroke legnth and small bore diameter as well as the water jacket arrangement of the 351M it is best left alone. You can get a 4v intake for it and that will help some. One could also use it in a marine application by bolting a thick heavy chain to it and then shove it over the side of a sizable boat (boat anchor). The 351M was put in both cars and trucks.

oh and guys the 351c was offered in front of a C6 and also an FMX as well as the 4 speed. If it has an FMX behind it it is definately without a doubt a cleveland. Don't get too excited. They are kind of rare and are pieces of junk after you open them up. A C6 could be almost anything. Heck I had a cleveland that someone had stuffed into my 70 coupe and it had a C4 behind it!? Creative... we are not amused.

Cleveland engines are classified by ford motor company as a mid-sized block.

I guess that the easiest way to tell is go to this website and look at the intake manifolds listed.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/ford_sb_perf.shtml

then match the one that looks most like yours. Notice that the 351C and 351M do not interchange as the boobs above have told you. The 351M intake is almost 2" wider than the 351C. The 351M and 400 will exchange intake manifolds. The 351C,M, and 400 will all exchange heads, oil pans, and many other parts but the main journal size of the 351M is different. The crank that is in it is essentially a 351W crank. The block on a 351M and 400 are the same other than main journal size. The different cranks account for the stroke difference and thus the different cubic inch displacement differences.

As far as what to do with it if you do have a 351c I would recomend getting a 4v intake for 2v heads and a 650cfm carb. That should be plenty... but if you want to spend a lot of money... you can get all kinds of crap.

these would be nice.

http://www.australianmuscleparts.com.au/

very nice aluminum heads the greatest benifit from these is dropping 50lbs off the top of the engine

you could get a higher lift/duration cam but why?? Do you want flames shooting out of your tailpipes? Oh and headers couldn't hurt. The 4v exaust manifolds are cool too.

http://www.jegs.com/

search with 351c under keywords

oh and I am a pantera nutttt! I have wanted one since I was in highschool.
just google pantera. you will find all the parts you need.

I have found panteras on the internet that have in excess of 1000 hp and plenty of torque to go with it but again, why? 350 to 500 is more than adaquate. I know that I can't afford that many tires and transmissions. I like some of the injection systems that I have seen for the 351c. If I could get 500 horses and 32 mi/gal that would be really nice.

--zolax--

I had a stock 351C 2V crate motor in my 1970 Cougar. When I restored the car, I put a Elderbrock Performer intake with a Holley 600 vacum secondary. I also replaced the points distributor with an MSD distributor and MSD ignition and coil. I went from stock single exhaust to headman headers with dual exhaust. When I first got the new set up right, the car had amazing torque and take off. Somewhere over a very short period (500 miles), the car has lost the low end torque and is sluggish off the line, but idles well and has power at higher speeds. Two questions. Anybody got any idea how much horsepower I added by making my changes? Any suggestions on what happened to my low end torque? I changed the power valve tonight in the Holley and will test this weekend to see if that is a fix. Thanks.

ow ow ow ow.............
This thread is so old it's making my head hurt.
benep, this is a good question. However, it is not useful to have a new discussion tacked onto an old thread.

Please feel free to start a new thread on this subject and I'm sure you will get a helpful response. Otherwise, this thread will be closed.

BTW, welcome to AF!