Hey guys, as you may already know, I'm new to the Pontiac familiy. My dad had a couple bonnevilles over the years but nothing special. Before I bought my precious Firebird I really knew nothing about them. Originally I planned on buyin a beat Honda or Toyota for a first car. When i went to the dealership to look a 93 toyota corolla that was beat to hell, half the interior was ripped out and it had no stereo in it not even a fm radio. so the dealer said that they had a Trans Am for 1000 bucks.... not the car i was looking for but i got in the car and fired it up and couldn't walk away from it :grinno: .. I guess i need some clarity as to whats the difference between a firebird, trans am, formulas and what the hell is a LS1? if somebody could tell me which one I have it would be sweet, i just know it as a 91 firebird. Just look at thread i posted earlier "new member looking for advise" to see the picture. I know i has a v6 in it but I'm not too sure which one. Any info would be helpful, Thanks!!

You have a V6 which is a 3.1, a little better than the 2.8 6 that 3rd gens used to have. It's a port injection motor (SFI). The LT1 and newer sibling LS1 are the 4th gen f-body (and other GMs) small block Chevy motors, similar in concept to the the 3rd gen L98 TPI motors.

what kind of upgrades can i put on my car to get started out? a couple people have suggested either a racing chip or starting with the exhaust system

start off with intake and exhaust. But the 3.1 is not worth putting much in. How manny miles are on it? Do a basic tune up first.

LS1:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/LS1GreaterLT1.jpg

LS1:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/LS1GreaterLT1.jpg

yeah probly the best way to go

did the dealer say you had a trans am? thats a V8..unless the dealer doesnt know firebirds.

an LS1 is pretty much the ultimate engine they ever put into a f-body. it was rated at around 330 but in actuality usually puts out 350+..

a 'base firebird' is a V6 model, unless it was a 3rd gen, which also came with a 4cylinder. since yours is a 91, you had pretty much 3 engine choices. a 3.1V6, a 5.0V8 and a 5.7V8. the base firebird comes with the 3.1 but if you have a trans am, you eithier have a 5.0 or 5.7. if its an auto, you most likely have the 5.7 but if its stick it has to be a 5.0.
the 3.1 is a punchy motor but you shouldnt expect too much from it. if i were you, id just tune it up, maybe intake, exhaust and after that just keep er stock!

if you want the performance, you should go find a V8 model if yours is the V6er.

Yeah you got the almighty 3.1 with 140 HP.. its a very good engine atleast mine is as it's overheated many times and still runs pretty good.

Start out by doing a tune up, and definately get an exhaust for it, it will sound like you got a v8 under the hood.. mine's proof.

If only I had a video camera..

After 1981 the Firebird/TA ceased being a Pontiac in anything other than name. It used the GM corporate engines (read Chevy), every part except some body parts were interchangeable with the Camaro.

Morley's right. We call them "Cheviacs". But, a very aerodynamic body and good suspension. Unfortunate rattle traps, every one!

The 3.1 is a good little engine. Key word here "little". Nothing for real power production. If you MUST modify it for power, use a "torque" cam, GOOD headers and some electronic tuning. The factory induction system is about as good as anything that will readily "fit" the 60-degree V6.
There's a bunch of potential in the iron heads, too. I wouldn't bother unless you have a point to prove. We build a few for Fieros 'cuz they bolt right in and don't change the suspension geometry. Makes 'em drive like a "muscle car". Not nearly as quick, mind you, but torquey and fun.

Also, while LS1 is certainly a cool and GREAT engine, a 455SD it ain't! Don't forget about the 1st and 2nd gen Firebirds. Bad-ass cars with the good packages! REAL tough to beat a '79 WS6 car with a 4-speed and a pre-'75 400 or 455. Not as flashy, and a bit bulgy looking, but very well engineered and executed.

Jim

u gotta love that pic with the chicks all on that ls1....i miss mines....if only she would have made it into that RS..... aaaaaaaaaaah

you can also use the manifold off a 2.8 fiero's factory engine they'll be like a hi performance part to this engine because that intake manifold is rated the same as a 3.4 from a newer camaro/firebird factory so in a 3.1 it'll run em good ... thats my .02$

Oh what can we say about the almighty 3.1...


Well... It sucks...







a lot... :(

Oh what can we say about the almighty 3.1...


Well... It sucks...







a lot... :(
Not all IMO, the 3.1 McLaren turbo used in the TTP's was pretty damn cool IMO. With a aftermarket (hell even upgrades pieces from other stock engines), almost anything is possible.

it's only got 110,000 miles on it. I think I'll start with audio, I've got a kenwood c.d. unit and a Blaupunkt amp and 12" sub, but with performance i want to start with exhaust, catback sound good?

Not all IMO, the 3.1 McLaren turbo used in the TTP's was pretty damn cool IMO. With a aftermarket (hell even upgrades pieces from other stock engines), almost anything is possible.
TTP's? Apparently there is some amazing 3.1 performance that I don't know about here. :dunno:

In 89 & 90 GM sold McLaren designed 3.1 Intercooled turbo TGP Grand Prix making 200 + horse with all forged internals. Easily able to get 300 out of it by turning up the boost and able to handle up to 500 horse on the stock internals. Pretty bad ass for a little 3.1 if you ask me.

In 89 & 90 GM sold McLaren designed 3.1 Intercooled turbo TGP Grand Prix making 200 + horse with all forged internals. Easily able to get 300 out of by turning up the boost and able to handle up to 500 horse on the stock internals. Pretty bad ass for a little 3.1 if you ask me.
Holy shit! :eek:

Yeah, I'd say thats very badass... Hmm... Maybe I should look for another project car... lol :wink:

**EDIT**
Wow there were only 900 of them made and theres 2 near me in mint condition. lol

Yeah, your not kidding they have the makings for a great project. There were somewhere around 9000 made and the engines sell for typically only a few hundred ( 400 - 800) on ebay and threw salvage yards complete with the turbo's.Infact I think there is one on ebay right with a buy it now for 600. If I had a 3.1 F-body, you can bet your ass I would be fabing that suckers in there.

Alot claim there were only hundreds made but the fact is there were around 3700 coupe's made in 89 and then another 3300 or so made in 90 and 1000 STE sedans with the engine,.

theres some pretty sick stuff going on in stock engines its just how to engineer them together and get it to adapt right my 3.4 is pushing out 434 hp @ the wheels N/A .... took 4 years of research and searching 4 months of machining adapters and custom everything: headers, intake manifold exhaust manifold big bore throttle body stand alone fuel system A/C delete kit flat top pistons 11:1 compression ported polished balanced and blue printed custom ground performance cams custom drilled&balanced crank weights cold air intake with k&n high flow filter deleted most of the sensors and wiring harness was changed to the bare minimum(gauges and speedo with enough for radio and fuel monitoring systems to adapt) titanium flywheel, rockers lifters and rods all ceramic bearings ceramic coated radiator lines with summit racings performance high capacity camaro 4 core radiator radiator fan delete, custom air scoop to funnel air through the raditor via body kit vents full 3" exhaust all of anything was bent using my friends mandrel bender high volume oil pump windage tray custom titanium gears in trans spec stage 4 cindered iron clutch from west coast fiero machined titanium transaxles billet aluminum super short throw shifter upgraded selector cable and slave cylinder fuel celled high volume fuel pump .... and thats not including the crazy stuff done to the brakes rims and interior and it was also bored and stroked way further than it should've been used the ferrari as my goal/refferrence point for performance and power output and 32k$ (shoulda bought the ferrari) 3 weeks after it was all finally assembled a woman who appeared medicated or drunk hit me and totalled my precious car.... *tear*

some people say im :screwy:

Daaang.. 3.1s making that much HP? I think i'll just throw mine out of my Camaro and rebuild the sucker..

whod a thunk it???, thats pretty freaking sweet. hell u may end up doing that swap alot cheaper than its gonna cost me to do my project lt1 lol

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-Pontiac-Grand-Prix-Turbo-Motor-Engine-3-1-L-V6_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ003QQitemZ 130055705768QQrdZ1

Is this the ebay one you were talking about?... I'm willing to bet it wouldn't be that hard to adapt the motor mounts to fit in an f-body... Of course its gonna look wierd as hell though. lol

Easily able to get 300 out of it by turning up the boost and able to handle up to 500 horse on the stock internals.
So uh, basically it does what a 6 bolt 1g DSM does with less cylinders, 2/3 of the displacement, and not forged internals and it took McLaren to make it? ;)

Just playin, just playing :). That is really sweet, I never knew that existed! That would be one hell of a sleeper, wouldnt it? I should tell my Fiero buddy about those, I wonder if he knows about them...

I'm wondering if I can just get my hands on the internals from one of those and I could just rebuild my motor and throw them in there... Mmmm, how sweet that would be...

I'm wondering if I can just get my hands on the internals from one of those and I could just rebuild my motor and throw them in there... Mmmm, how sweet that would be...
Yeah, this is more the route I was thinking someone should go. You get to rebuild and majorly beef up at the same time. You buy new bearings and gaskets. Have everything hot tanked and you swap in rods, pistons , crank, heads, turbo manifolds, intake manifold and cross over's from the McLaren 3.1. Then you are completely set up as a 300 + horse 3.1 fresh motor with 0 miles. Then you could also rebuild or upgrade turbo. So basically for 800 -1000 dollars total including the cost of buying the TGP engine for parts you just more than doubled your horse with room to go more this set up in a third gen should very well be able to run low 13's to high 12's and thats leaving it very close to stock (there is a info in the facts section of www.w-body.com (http://www.w-body.com) (unfortunetly can't link direct to the facts they have to be clicked from the main page) about these and how TGP's with the boost slightly turned up run mid to low 13's , right with LS1's).

Edit- Also yes that was the auction but he got the year wrong. It had to be from a 90 not 91.

Is it a twin or single turbo setup? That part kinda escaped me...

Single Garrett T-25.

Single Garrett T-25.
:lol: t-25 ftw... :rolleyes: I bet that son of a bitch spools instantly on a freakin 3.1 and has no top end... My 2.0 completely ripped with that turbo...


Maybe I should consider doing something to that effect then since my motor is in dire need of a rebuild. It's currently losing large amounts of oil out the rear main seal. :( It pretty much sucks... I was gonna get a new car cause its been pissing me off so much lately. lol

:lol: t-25 ftw... :rolleyes: I bet that son of a bitch spools instantly on a freakin 3.1 and has no top end... My 2.0 completely ripped with that turbo...


Maybe I should consider doing something to that effect then since my motor is in dire need of a rebuild. It's currently losing large amounts of oil out the rear main seal. :( It pretty much sucks... I was gonna get a new car cause its been pissing me off so much lately. lol
Yeah, its a modest turbo to say the least but just imagine what it can do then on a nicely sized one. Also if you are serious about going this route there are like 5 of these engine within 100 miles of you.

The most expensive one being 100% perfect working order at Rt. 43 Auto Parts, Inc. (http://www.rt43autoparts.com/) USA-OH(Carrollton) Request_Quote (http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/quoteForm.cgi?type=g&sEmail=Rt43Aut@aol.com&email=&part=Engine&dbPart=300.1&dbSubPart=&model=Pontiac%20Grand%20Prix&dbModel=61.11.1.1&year=1990&stockNum=GP1&price=800&desc=-(3.1L)%2C%20w%2Fturbo%20(VIN%20'V')-112%2C981%20MI%2CRT-RTGOOD&name=Rt.%2043%20Auto%20Parts%2C%20Inc.&url=http://www.Rt43AutoParts.com&int=B%3E%40%3E&broker=0&recycler=0&selleruserid=1353&miles=112&condition=-1&userid=1000&uIMS=&seqNum=196591357&userClaim=&userLang=&userZip=44625) 1-330-627-7700 - asking $800

Then there is one that needs the turbo rebuilt (but I would just upgrade to a larger turbo if I where you) at Bedford Auto Wrecking (http://www.bedfordautowrecking.com/) USA-OH(Bedford) E-mail (sales@BedfordAutoWrecking.com?subject=Car-Part.com,1990,1990,Pontiac Grand Prix,Engine,$350, 010737,Postal 44625) 1-440-232-6474 for only $350

Then there are two that have them but don't have the price listed at Fox Auto Parts (http://www.foxautosalvage.com/) USA-OH(Malvern) E-mail (Sales@FoxAutoSalvage.com?subject=Car-Part.com,1990,1990,Pontiac Grand Prix,Engine,$Call, 960630,Postal 44625) 1-800-228-6159 and New Castle Auto Wrecking, Inc. (http://www.ncawpa.com/) USA-PA(New-Castle) E-mail (caddyparts01@aol.com?subject=Car-Part.com,1990,1990,Pontiac Grand Prix,Engine,$Call, G7320T,Postal 44625) 1-800-245-2226

Then there is this engine that only has 40K on it Toll Gate Auto Parts (http://www.tollgateauto.com/) USA-PA(Greensburg) E-mail (Sales@TollGateAuto.com?subject=Car-Part.com,1990,1990,Pontiac Grand Prix,Engine,$Call, E-0011,Postal 44625) 1-800-342-1125

Awesome... I know exactly where everyone of those places are. lol

I'm thinking the one at Bedford Auto Wrecking would be my best bet. Mainly because I have an extra turbo sittin here. :wink:

I was gonna get a new car but I just found out that the damn thing was already sold. :( So this little project might have to take place with the Firebird losing almost 3 quarts of oil a week. :( :(

If I where you, I would not even think twice. Hell, I would borrow $350 if I had to. In terms of projects its relatively very simple since everything is interchangable from your engine to that engine and you will be left off with some parts to throw on ebay to make up the cost and the difference before and after will be night and day. If you spend more than $1000 total including fluids on this I would be majorly shocked.

The only thing that makes me wonder about is the tuning on it... Would I also need the TGP ecu to read boost or what?

Same ECM,. Both your computer and the stock computer are able to read 2 and 3 bar Map's. Most yards include the harness and ECM but if they don't you can buy one for 50 bucks or get your own prom burned. All you need to do is swap in a prom from a TGP computer to yours.

Fly the plane to Beruit!

Deez iz a hijack! :rofl:

Sorry you guys went way off the beaten path here. Although, that sounds like a tuff little 3.1 tho :eek:

Fly the plane to Beruit!

Deez iz a hijack! :rofl:

Sorry you guys went way off the beaten path here. Although, that sounds like a tuff little 3.1 tho :eek:
What make car was the rare 3.1 Turbo put in?.

Is it currently made or was it made in the past?.

Did the thread starter request history on 3.1's?


:tongue:

Plus, I am god here :sly: . Ok maybe not baby Jesus's daddy but I can turn the subject of every thread to crack whore's if I want to, so :loser: .


J/K but ofcourse :grinno:

What make car was the rare 3.1 Turbo put in?.

Is it currently made or was it made in the past?.

Did the thread starter request history on 3.1's?

I'm way too tired for a pop quiz. :sleeping:

Carry on your holyness :worshippy

I am just messin, you're right. It did travel a little out in left field but it being pontiac motor related I think its close enough to being on topic. Damn :eek: its been a while since I have been corrected on my posting style in here

Same ECM,. Both your computer and the stock computer are able to read 2 and 3 bar Map's. Most yards include the harness and ECM but if they don't you can buy one for 50 bucks or get your own prom burned. All you need to do is swap in a prom from a TGP computer to yours.
Hehe... I smell my next project coming on... :grinyes:


Sorry bout the straying... Sometimes I just cannot control my inner whore. :wink: