Ford hater

Me and a friend are having an argument which would kill which a 69 daytona charger with the huge rear wing and the awsome lookin nose clip or the 69 charger r/t? I say the daytona cuz it was banned from nascar for being to damn fast.but what do I know about nascar back then im only 17.

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mopar or no car

MrPbody

Ford Hater,

First, you must define "kill". Then, you must decide which engine is in either car. Both were available with 440 and 426 "Hemi". I've seen at least three Daytonas with 340 in them. Never saw a '69 R/T with anything smaller than 383.

For argument's sake, both cars with the 440 Magnum... Due to the added weight and less-than-optimum gear ratio for drag racing, Daytona would probably lose to R/T in a drag race (standing strart, 1/4 mile). But, top-end speed? A 340 Daytona could probably outrun ANY R/T, regardless of engine. Aerodynamics are the sole purpose for the ugly body work, but it WORKED!

Charger Daytona wasn't banned from NASCAR. There was no '70 model, but SuperBird took it's place (Road Runner with the same aero treatment). In '72, the '69 model was too old to compete (there was a "3 model year window" in those days). By '72, NASCAR had had enough with "special" cars, so they ordered the "wing thing" teams to remove the windshield and use the 340 engine, putting them at a great disadvantage, rather being at the great advantage they had previously enjoyed.

Ford created "King Cobra" ('71 Torino with an "aero" package) strictly as a NASCAR "special". The cost of developement was so high, NASCAR implemented the above restrictions to discourage Ford from actually producing the car, and as GM was just getting back into "the fray", keeping THEM from developing a Chevy or Pontiac that could also be at an aerodynamic advantage.

Straight-line speeds were getting pretty crazy, especially considering the tire technology of the day. If today's "Cup" cars had the same large engines from that era, and today's aero and tire technology, WOO HOO!!! ALL the tracks would be "restrictor plate" tracks...

Jim

KManiac

The 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona (winged car), Charger 500 (the lesser known Nascar body with aerodynamic rear window and fixed headlight grill) and Charger R/T (standard production body) were all mechanically equivalent, when equipped with the same engines, transmissions and rear-end gears. The 500 and the Daytona had better aerodynamics to allow faster speeds on the racetrack. These body modifications did nothing for a quarter-mile racer. The only reason the 500 and the Daytona were sold to the public was the Nascar rule requiring at least 500 units sold to the public to qualify for entry in a Nascar event.

A 440 Magnum equipped Charger with the same transmission and rear end as a 426 Hemi equipped Charger would always get the holeshot in a quarter mile contest everytime, but the final trap speed of the Hemi was always faster.

I was personally aquainted with a 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona that came from the factory with 426 hemi, torqueflite automatic and 4.10:1 rear end gears. Even though the car looked intimidating, the car would never go fast enough to benefit from the wing and beak with a 4.10 rear end!

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"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"

1962 Chrysler 300 2-door hardtop/1964 Chrysler 300-K convertible/1964 Chrysler Newport 4-door sedan/1964 Chrysler 300-K hardtop with Firepower 390/2x1964 Chrysler 300-K hardtop/1964 Chrysler 300 convertible/1964 Chrysler "Silver 300-K" with factory 4-speed/1964 Chrysler New Yorker Salon/1980 Dodge D-50 Sport/1986 Volvo 740 GLE/1989 Honda Accord DX/1989 Lincoln Mark VII BB/1991 Dodge Shadow ES convertible

MrPbody

KM,

I never understood why someone would order such a car (Daytona) with such a low ratio axle. You're right, it was a waste.

Also interesting is the mention of Charger 500. I didn't discuss it because it wasn't in the original thread. But you're right about that, too! It used the Coronet backlight and "C" pillars. The flush grill also picked up the top end. Cool car.

My experience with Hemi cars in street "trim" were they would NOT hook. At the track, with slicks and some rear suspension work, they are nearly unbeatable. My GTO never lost a street race to a Hemi car. I DID lose (quite badly) one night to a '69 GTX with the 440 Magnum. I got him out of the gate, but he ran me down and THEN some, through 3rd gear. Hemi cars simply couldn't put the power to the ground like the Magnum did. Traction.....

Jim

knightmare1015

To jim i have to say this. ur a little off about engine choices for the 69 charger stock version. This version u had a choice of 2 engines the 318 inline V6/ slant 6 or the 383 V8 small block and as far as hemis go Ray Barton puts a twin carbed 638 inch hemi big block that puts out around 1,000 plus hp to the wheels. The Daytona addition did come with a either a 427 or a 440 magnum. The 500 editon is what u saw on the famous tv show and movies with the R/T package made just for thta show by Dodge. The show was known as: The Dukes of hazzard. The 500 was big mean and easy to get 800 plus horses out of and was the most popular and still is to this day. My dad had one and that car would flat out fly with 3.55 ratios. i don't even want to know what it would do with 4.11

knightmare1015

Oh i almost forgot i will be attending NASCAR TECH here in the near future and Hemis are banned period from nascar that may change come this season due to Toyota coming int the fray.

KManiac

I must agree that someone is a "little off" when it comes to the engines available in the 1969 Charger, but it certainly isn't Mr. Pbody (Jim). The following are the engine choices available from the factory in the 1969 Charger and you can easily count more than two:

225 cubic inch "slant-six" with one barrel carburetor
318 cubic inch "small block" V8 with two barrel carburetor
383 cubic inch "big block" V8 with either two or four barrel carburetor
426 cubic inch "raised big block" with hemispherical (hemi) combustion chambers and two four barrel carburetors
440 cubic inch "raised big block" with four barrel carburetor
440 cubic inch "raised big block" with three, two barrel carburetors, better known as the "six pack".

The 1969 Charger came from the factory in the following models:

Charger - The basic model, available with any engine, transmission and interior treatment.
Charger R/T - The premium, high-performance model that came standard with 440 four barrel engine or optional with either 426 Hemi or 440 Six Pack.
Charger 500 - A lot of 500 Chargers with special Nascar backwindow and "fixed headlight" grill.
Charger Daytona - A lot of 500 Chargers with Nascar backwindow, rear wing and front beak.
Special Edition - Dodge offered an optional trim package on the standard Charger and Charger R/T call "Special Edition" or as some refer to it, "SE" This consisted of leather seats, wood-grain dashboard trim, and "Special Edition" badges on the C-piller. This was a trim package only, not a separate model.

And let it be known that Dodge did not make special cars for the "Dukes of Hazard" television show. This television show did not premiere until 1979, a full ten years after the 1969 model year. Every General Lee you saw on the show was custom built from an available, used Charger by the show's production crew. The production crew for this show went around Southern California and other places buying up as many used 1969 Dodge Chargers as they could find to keep up show on the air. Every time they filmed a jump, another Charger was destroyed. Another fact about this show that most people don't know is this: Although the show portrayed fictional characters and story lines, it was based on a real-life moonshiner who drove a 1958 Chrysler 300-D, that he called "Traveler", named after General Lee's horse.

It is always a good idea to do a little research and have all of your facts straight and correct before you start professing like an expert. You will end up with much more credibility that way. A wise man once said, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

__________________
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"

1962 Chrysler 300 2-door hardtop/1964 Chrysler 300-K convertible/1964 Chrysler Newport 4-door sedan/1964 Chrysler 300-K hardtop with Firepower 390/2x1964 Chrysler 300-K hardtop/1964 Chrysler 300 convertible/1964 Chrysler "Silver 300-K" with factory 4-speed/1964 Chrysler New Yorker Salon/1980 Dodge D-50 Sport/1986 Volvo 740 GLE/1989 Honda Accord DX/1989 Lincoln Mark VII BB/1991 Dodge Shadow ES convertible

knightmare1015

Well excuse me for say this but u don't have to get all hostile about it. and for ur info the guy that ran moonshine in which the dukes was protrayed after was named Gary Rusher. and i was talking about now since the duke fest and the guy that told me all of this stuff was in the dukes. You know him as Ben Jones a.k.a Cooter. There's also a little know company down the road in Gatlinburg, TN from Cooter's Place where the dukes do personal appearances called Smith Brothers' Restoration where they're licsensed by the Chrysler Corporation and Warner brothers. I may have been a little rusty on my info and i don't claimed to be an expert but dont ever put me down like that again.

knightmare1015

Plus u forget that my dad had both cars and in those paticular models were the 2 engine choices in that model. U never said anything about engine swaps made by the factory. U could get any engine "ordered" from the factory installed. Dodge brought the charger body out for the movie and for an up coming body style they're planning on bringing the old "B" body style out in 2010. Please refrain from calling me a fool ever again.

knightmare1015

And here is a tid bit for u as well. go to this website www.smithbros.com . the 2006 Charger with Gomango paint was sent by the chrysler corp. to them. and if u don't belive me about Ray Barton racing engines go to this web site www.raybarton.com and click on the following links: Online catalog and then click crate engines link then see for ur self. These cars will out power any Nextel cup, Bush series, craftsman Truck series race vehicle. They're only running 800 hp engines with a restrictor plate it is around 745 hp. that was from a Nascar engines 1 and 2 instructor at Nascar Tech located in Mooresville, NC. and check these guys out www.nelsonracingengines.com .

MrPbody

Settle down, guys. It isn't all that big a deal.

Youngster, modern "crate" engines are not the same as the old street Hemi. 383 was NOT a "small block", it's a "short deck", actually the original "big block" Mope, as is the 361 and 400. It's called the "B" block, and 413, 426 and 440 are called "RB" ("Raised Block"), due to the taller deck height. I ommitted the 6 cyl. and 318 because "who the hell cares?" (when discussing muscle cars).

The modern "hemi" wouldn't have a ghost of a chance at the "Cup" level. The W-9 Mopes are having enough trouble keeping up with SB-2, and they've been "developing" the small block (Dodge) for 35 years now. IF developement began today, for a race version of the 5.7 "Hemi", we would see some good results by 2010.

Modern "Cup" engines for all BUT restrictor plates are indeed, in the 850 HP range (not bad for 358 CID). Restrictor engines are closer to 650 than 750... That coming from a man that builds racing engines all week... When I decide to retire, I will become one of those instructors, myself! Ben Jones is an actor, not a car builder.

One must always remember, time marches on. Myth and superstition abound in this hobby. Trust the pros.

I'm not sure where all this talk about "new" Chargers came from. Please tell me, Dodge is NOT going to try to bring back the old Charger, too? Challenger is bad enough... I HATE "retro". Nothing but whoring to past "glory". At least GM had enough class to NOT make GTO "retro". They settled for making it a true tire-smokin', 1/4 mile hot rod MUSCLE CAR! It takes a blower on anything besides Z-06 to catch one!

Jim

sub006

The choice between a Daytona and a standard-length Charger boils down to

"How long is your garage?" LOL!

MagicRat

Old, old thread, guys. An interesting subject but recent events have made it's resurrection less relevant.
Thread closed.

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I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence