'97 Lumina Shifting/Transmission/Idling Problems

DeJO87 · 07-23-2006, 05:22 PM

I have a 1997 Lumina. We recently had a heck of a storm which caused a lot of big puddles to form on some of the roads, and I happened to hit one of them just right as I was turning into a parking lot. It stalled the car completely, it wouldn't even try to turn over for awhile. About an hour later it would try to turn over, but the spark plugs must have been wet still (at the least) because the engine was misfiring, although it didn't register it and blink the SES light (which was on before this incident even occured.) It still wouldn't stay on, so I waited some more and tried it about 2 hours later, at which time it decided to stay on but misfire quite a bit. It was blowing out white exhaust, which I assume was water boiling/steaming from the engine, somewhere. It gradually got better after a bit of revving and I drove it a short mile or two home, and it seemed to work fine after I gave it more time to dry out.
The next day, it started acting up on me. It won't upshift gears at the correct time/RPMs (I don't have a tach, just guessing) and I "think" it will only upshift when my foot is not on the accelerator. It downshifts just fine. I checked the transmission fluid after driving it for about 10 minutes and with it idling in park; it seemed to be high and a bit watery, according to my father. I guess some water got mixed in with the fluid.
The other problem is that it the engine is idling quite a bit higher than normal, but it's not as if the engine is being floored. I assume this is what is causing it to accelerate by itself, which I have dubbed "Auto-Cruise". It accelerates by itself in reverse and at least 1st and 2nd, probably 3rd as well (haven't gotten it up to 4th.) It can go from 1st to 2nd without me even putting my foot on the accelerator. I think my car is just a bit possessed.
So on to my questions, should I take the car to get the transmission flushed/emptied and refilled (or do it by myself?) Can it be done easily, and if so, do I need to use any certain cleaner to flush it, or just drain and refill it? I don't have any idea on what to ask about the high idling/acceleration, so I'll just take any comments about what you think the problem is.
Thank you.

MT-2500 · 07-23-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeJO87

I have a 1997 Lumina. We recently had a heck of a storm which caused a lot of big puddles to form on some of the roads, and I happened to hit one of them just right as I was turning into a parking lot. It stalled the car completely, it wouldn't even try to turn over for awhile. About an hour later it would try to turn over, but the spark plugs must have been wet still (at the least) because the engine was misfiring, although it didn't register it and blink the SES light (which was on before this incident even occured.) It still wouldn't stay on, so I waited some more and tried it about 2 hours later, at which time it decided to stay on but misfire quite a bit. It was blowing out white exhaust, which I assume was water boiling/steaming from the engine, somewhere. It gradually got better after a bit of revving and I drove it a short mile or two home, and it seemed to work fine after I gave it more time to dry out.
The next day, it started acting up on me. It won't upshift gears at the correct time/RPMs (I don't have a tach, just guessing) and I "think" it will only upshift when my foot is not on the accelerator. It downshifts just fine. I checked the transmission fluid after driving it for about 10 minutes and with it idling in park; it seemed to be high and a bit watery, according to my father. I guess some water got mixed in with the fluid.
The other problem is that it the engine is idling quite a bit higher than normal, but it's not as if the engine is being floored. I assume this is what is causing it to accelerate by itself, which I have dubbed "Auto-Cruise". It accelerates by itself in reverse and at least 1st and 2nd, probably 3rd as well (haven't gotten it up to 4th.) It can go from 1st to 2nd without me even putting my foot on the accelerator. I think my car is just a bit possessed.
So on to my questions, should I take the car to get the transmission flushed/emptied and refilled (or do it by myself?) Can it be done easily, and if so, do I need to use any certain cleaner to flush it, or just drain and refill it? I don't have any idea on what to ask about the high idling/acceleration, so I'll just take any comments about what you think the problem is.
Thank you.

Welcome on your first AF post.

Well how deep was that water.
Lumina's are not boats and do not float good.

Not turning over and white exhuasst when it did start You may have sucked water into the engine. NOT GOOD.
If you have good comp insurance I would call your isurance co/agent and ask for a adjuster to have a look at it.
You may have engine or transmission damage or both.
If you have insurance let them check it first before doing anything.
It needs to be checked out by a repair shop.
MT

DeJO87 · 07-23-2006, 05:50 PM

Thanks for your reply. I'd say that the water wasn't more than a few inches deep, it would have barely reached the bottom of the frame. I wouldn't have gone in it if it was too deep. The thing is, I was driving in deeper water on the road with no problem, I just think the bump when I turned into the parking lot gave it the right angle to screw things up. Unfortunately, I've only got liability, insurance for me is a bit expensive (19, only had my license for a year.)

MT-2500 · 07-23-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeJO87

Thanks for your reply. I'd say that the water wasn't more than a few inches deep, it would have barely reached the bottom of the frame. I wouldn't have gone in it if it was too deep. The thing is, I was driving in deeper water on the road with no problem, I just think the bump when I turned into the parking lot gave it the right angle to screw things up. Unfortunately, I've only got liability, insurance for me is a bit expensive (19, only had my license for a year.)

Some air intakes are kinda low in grille ot fender.
If water rolls over the bumper or into grille area or tire throws water up there watch out.
Give it a little time to dry out and see if it starts running and idleing good.
Could be moisture or water on the brain boxes.
It takes deep water to get into the transmission.
And if trans fluid is funny pink or foamy or has water in it get it flushed out.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
MT

Blue Bowtie · 07-23-2006, 06:38 PM

Like MT advised, change the trans oil. You should also remove the air filter element, and either dry it out or replace it. I'm guessing you may have also wet the MAF and possibly the throttle body and IAC. When you get the air cleaner cover off and air filter removed, remove the other end of the intake bellows, unplug the IAT andMAF, disconnect the CCV tube, and remove it from teh engine to allow the duct and attached MAF to dry out. Get some spray-type carburtetor cleaner and wash out the throttle body and IAC passages. You might even want to lightly clean off the MAF thick film sensing element and inlet screen, but carefully.

While you are waiting, you might also want to remove the spark plug boots one at a time and clean/dry the wires, boots, and plugs.

corning_d3 · 07-23-2006, 10:37 PM

Got water in the oilpan, too?

jeffcoslacker · 07-25-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeJO87

The next day, it started acting up on me. It won't upshift gears at the correct time/RPMs (I don't have a tach, just guessing) and I "think" it will only upshift when my foot is not on the accelerator. The other problem is that it the engine is idling quite a bit higher than normal, but it's not as if the engine is being floored. I assume this is what is causing it to accelerate by itself, which I have dubbed "Auto-Cruise". It accelerates by itself in reverse and at least 1st and 2nd, probably 3rd as well (haven't gotten it up to 4th.) It can go from 1st to 2nd without me even putting my foot on the accelerator. I think my car is just a bit possessed.

The rest of it is not up to me to guess...but this particular set of symptoms is EXACTLY what my '97 was doing when the Throttle Position Sensor went bad a few months ago (caused the Check Engine light as well....), the TPS tells the tranny where the upshift points should be, as well as having some bearing on idle speed....mine would idle along at 40 mph or so with no throttle applied, and wouldn't upshift if I kept my foot on the gas...idle engine speed was about 1900-2100 rpm until I changed the TPS.

DeJO87 · 07-25-2006, 04:36 PM

Yeah, that situation sounds quite similar and the TPS is definitely worth a look. The stepfather of one of my friends has some diagnostic equipment of some sort (he works for Snap-On tools) and I'm pretty sure he would be willing to help me out with this. My engine doesn't seem to be rocking or anything that would point to it trying to have compressed water and bent the crankshaft.
I'll look up some more information about the TPS, but I won't be able to do much with my car until Friday (work schedule.) Thanks for the help everyone.

corning_d3 · 07-25-2006, 04:49 PM

A simple analog ohm meter will work as far as diagnostic equipment..

jeffcoslacker · 07-26-2006, 08:35 AM

I noticed that when I pulled the old TPS off, it had a rattle in it that the new one didn't, sounded like there was a tiny piece of metal or plastic broken loose inside it....if you take yours off (2 screws) and shake it, and hear anything, no doubt it's bad....

tblake · 07-26-2006, 09:02 PM

Jeff, i just took mine off, and tested it with a dvom and it checked out ok, but the car still seems to drive funny. Like i will go to accellerate cruising about 55mph, and the car seems unresponsive untill i almost reach the floor. Then it downshifts. It wont try to accellerate in the gear its in first. Whats happening. Could it still be bad even though it checked out ok? I didnt like ohm checking it, it jumped around a lot. so i volt checked it. lowest was about 1.5V and highest was about 4.5v sound right? Also my gf just bout an 02 grand prix se with the 3100 in it, and the car idles a lot quieter, and accellerates qicker, grnted its a year newer, but should they be about equal accelleration? whats the difference between an 02 grand prix and an 01 lumina other than looks?

corning_d3 · 07-26-2006, 10:14 PM

If it jumped around while ohm checking, it could be bad. BTW, have you cleaned the MAF?

89ltd · 07-26-2006, 10:27 PM

have it checked for codes.

tblake · 07-26-2006, 11:30 PM

there are no codes, i just cleaned the MAF, IAC, and throttle body. I meant by jumping around is an unstable reading like moving contacts around, or like an ohm check that never really levels off. When i voltage checked it, it made a clean sweep, no spikes or drop outs. So right now im assuming its of. The IAC was very very carboned up though, so it acrually is doing a lot better. Thanks for the suggestions.

DeJO87 · 07-27-2006, 01:41 AM

Okay, with the equipment he had we narrowed it down to the TPS. The voltage the TPS was reporting never dropped below 2.09v / 37% throttle (even when idling), however it did increase smoothly as the accelerater was depressed. The 5v coming in to the TPS was fine (reported over 4.5v when the 5v was connected to the TP signal). When the throttle reached about 70% or higher the engine would start to drop off and accelerate again at a regular interval. We also checked the MAP and MAF sensors, they were fine (although the MAF was reporting 0 on something, but the equipment we were using said it could be due to the TPS being bad.) It did throw up a code for either the TP or the APP sensor each time the car was started (I also had an evaporation emission code, I think the numbers were P0121 for the TPS and P0440 for the evap, something like that, can't remember.) Whatever he had walked us through the process of troubleshooting the error codes, so I went ahead and ordered a new TPS ($25 after shipping on eBay.) I'll change it when it gets here and let you know how it goes.

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