Hi Everyone,
I have a problem.First off thanks for the help in advance.I have a 94 Cierra "S" type.3100 v6 motor. A few weeks ago I was going to the store,the car died at the red light. Started it back up and went on my way. Last week it died all together. I am the second owner with 98,000 miles on it. Sitting in the parking lot for twelve hours trying to fix it and waiting on the tow truck was fun. Anyway this is what I have. I changed the plugs in the parking lot thinking it may have foweled out some of them the first time it stalled on me a few weeks ago.(Did nothing). Once at home I could hear that the fuel pump was not working.(Couldn't hear anything on the side of the road). I used starter fluid to check if it would start. It did. I checked the fuses, they are good. I bought a new relay to be sure. I live in the country and having the car towed for testing can get expensive you know. I installed relay, did nothing. At this point I'm sure it is the pump. Borrow mom and dads car and go get pump. I am handicap and only have use of my right arm. So just imagine me and my 55 yr old mother out in the gravel driveway taking out the tank of my car.:rofl: Oh what fun. Tried to start car after changing pump. Car wont start. Spits and sputters, backfired once but would not crank.:banghead: Ah ha. Didn't check filter. Took out filter, nothing but dirt and grimy brown sludge comming thru it. ( I had the filter off the car and was pouring gas thru it hoping to clean it and reuse it). Borrowed mom and dads car and go get filter.:screwy: Install filter,try to start car. Still wont start. Can hear new pump just pumping away in the back. So I try and try and....It Starts. Instantly dies. Do it again, same thing. And again. Everytime it runs just enough to touch the gas pedal it dies. Thinking it's flooded from all the times it would not start I hold pedal to floor for a minute and let it sit. I tried to start car. Nothing. If I turn the key to on a couple of times and then try it wants to start. In doing this I eventually get it to run. I have to keep the rpm's way up to keep it running. I let off the gas and it dies. When I try to start car again it is like it is starving for gas. I pat and pat the pedal until it cranks. I repeated this process untill car warmed up. I can't hear any vacuum leaks, all lines seam to be in good shape. Try to put the car in any gear and you have to pump the pedal like crazy just to get it to move,then it dies.:banghead: So I call my uncle. He asks how much pressure do you have at the fuel rail. Ah ha. Borrow mom and dads car go get manual for car and a fuel pressure tester. To my knowledge it is suppose to read 8 to 10 on gauge when you turn the switch on. It does and then drops to zero. Directions on tester say it should hold 8 to 10 even when pump stops running. It does not, it falls as soon as pump stops. Was told by kid at parts place my car should hold between 38 to 41 on gauge while running. When I can get it to run it reads nothing on the gauge.:banghead:


Sorry so long of a post but this is where all of you guys come in. I have told you everything I have done in the same order I have done it. Know what in the hell is wrong with my car. I have tried everything. I have a minimum amount of tools. Almost no money left. And no way of taking car to get tested. I know for a fact that the pump did go out. But since I have changed it everything has went to kah kah....I have to have my car. I have already missed two doctors appointments. What am I missing.?
Marshall

Lots of stuff, but where are the basics? 35 min. pressure at the rail and 41 under load or no go, pump you put in is no good or you did not replace the screen on the pick up in the tank or the second filter is dirty again from crap in the tank, or the gage is wrong and there is another problem.

is the Check Engine "service engine soon" light on, something tells me theres more to it then just fuel issues, maybe sensor somewhere, i disconnected one of mine, and forgot to plug it in, and the car didnt run so good, kept almost stalling, but then picked up, sometimes did stall. plugged it in, and everything is fine, if its on, might want to run codes.

Hi Maxwedge,
Not sure about the gage.My car is Not listed on the cover.The parts place assured me it would work and that sometimes all makes are not listed??!! I did put in a new screen inside the tank. I will check external filter A.M. to see if it's dirty again. It worries me that I can't get any reading at the rail. ( Hope it's the wrong gage?). Is it possible there could be a low or high volume pump option and I got the wrong one? What about when I turn the key and hear the pump, gage goes up to 8 or 10 then drops? Should I also be looking for a leak or is it normal for the pressure to drop? Will check the other stuff first,I was just wondering. Thanks for the help. ....Marshall

if the pressure goes up, it should stay up, so then it sounds like you do have a leak somewhere, and at first i thought maybe your fuel regulator is bad, check for any spots under the ground, any wet spot, if u see one just dab ur finger in it, and smell it, if it smells like gas, then theres your leak, obviously, also maybe you have an injector problem, like maybe one is stuck open, constantly allowing gas through, but that doesnt sound like it ever happens, but i dont know. maybe check it out

Hi XGames,
Yeh the check engine light is on.But it has been that way since I bought it over two years ago.Neglected to follow up on it.Car has up until know ran perfect.I have read about some sensor problems and such. I have no way of taking the car to get the codes ran. Is there a way I can do that at home without having to buy anything to do it.I'm not trying to be cheap I just really don't have the money.The only reason I bought the pump was because I knew it was gone.(Which it really was).If had any clue at all that it would have turned out like this I would have taken it some where. Is there any truth to bleeding the rail as you would a brake line.I was told that if you ran it dry and got air in it that you would have to or it would not run either.Also a mechanic friend of the family told me that? Could you please clarify if he is an idiot or not. I've got enough problems already and dont want to waste my time chasing some guys Idea and not tracking down the real problem ya know. Thanks.....Marshall

With a known good gage you should see 35-40 psi at the rail, period, when primed. It may drop a little, but 8-10 no way.

8 - 10 psi is too low.

Two possible problem.

Connectors on the fuel pump relay has a connection problem and not providing enough voltage. Try by-passing the fuel pump relay and usualy you will see a red wire hanging down near the fuel pump relay/fuse. It is usually the by-pass wire and jump that wire directly to the battery + terminal and it should power and turn on your fuel pump and measure the fuel pressure. If you got 40 psi then you know that is where the problem (fuel pump relay/fuse connection problem).

Disconnect the fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose and turn the ignition ON or if the fuel pump is already by-passed, if the fuel pressure regulator is bad, the fuel will come out of the vacuum hose because the diaphragm inside the fuel pressure regulator has ruptured and causes your fuel pressure to loose pressure.

yea its easy to run the codes, all you need is a paperclip and then you just have to watch the light, plus I think autozone will run codes for you for free.

heres a link i made up, all instructions listed, as well as all the codes.

http://xgamesj6.tripod.com/gmcodes.htm

Still Having Problems Guys,

Ok so far so not good.Thanks everyone for the advice.This is what I have so far.??

I checked the new external filter,It looks fine. I checked all of my fittings,They look fine also.??

I jumped the relay just to see and the new pump works either way. Using the relief valve on the pressure gage I have gas coming out of the fuel rails. It's not coming out at a very fast pace though? Disconnected jumper and got the same result.??

I removed the gas line before the filter and have gas coming thru it. It's not shooting out of it though. I held my finger over the end of it and could get a stream like when you do that to a water hose if you follow me.??

Replaced filter and removed line from opposite end of filter.Gas seems to flow thru at the same rate.??

Even with the jumper connected to the battery and the fuel pump going wide open I could not get it to gain pressure. 8 to 10 thats it. And back to zero as soon as I stoped the pump.??

With all the lines hooked up I ran the pump while I searched everywhere for leaks. I have looked everywhere.(So I think). I cant find anything. I can get gas to the rail,I just cant get pressure.??

With the key on I disconnected the fuel pressure regulator vacuum line. I could not get gas to come thru anywhere.??

I'm following you guys on this,I have no clue. I looking everywhere and trying everything I can. Just cant seem to get it.??

Thanks in advance everyone. I will win....Marshall

Hi everyone,
Went back thru it all.? By passed the relay and let the pump run constantly, did not see or smell gas anywhere.??Still getting fuel to rail,but no pressure at gage.?(see other post below).Ran codes using paper clip method and got nothing.( I took the battery out last week when putting in new pump). I think that killed my codes since the car hasnt ran to speak of. Any I deas?? Thanks all.....Marshall

Check to make sure the fuel lines are connected correctly. It is possible to connect them backwards. The other thing to do is to pull the fuel lines at the regulator and check to see if it is blocked. With all the crud in the filter the regulator oriface could be blocked. There should be a screen in the area of the regulator it too could be plugged.

Hi Everyone,
Good Good News.I new for a fact that I was not getting fuel pressure to the rail no matter what.So I started back to the begining.After trying everything but the one thing I didn't want to do ,I finally dropped the tank yesterday.In doing so I went to the auto parts place and purchased another fuel pump.( There was no way I was going thru all that without making sure I had my bases covered).The gas in the tank looked fine but I cleaned it out anyway just as before. ( Note the auto parts place told me ,as did the directions ,that aftermarket parts do not allways look like oem parts,but do the same job none the less). When I pulled the new pump out the rubber seal that goes into the main tubing had poped back out of position. My point being my oem pump had a few extra clips and what apeared to be venting holes in the top of the clip that snaped the pump to the main tube.The new pump I purchased at another auto parts place looked exactly like my oem pump that originally went bad. Put it all back together and hot dam it works like a champ.I would like to thank everyone for their help.Belive it or not , without the outside advice I would have never thought to dig in and double check everything.And oh yeh I am know a firm believer that if does not look like what I take out, I don't want it.Thanks everone.



P.S. I am having a problem with it starting up after not running all day. It hesitates like before until I turn it over about three times, then it starts.Runs like crap for a few minutes then its good to go.This car has never done that since the day I have owned.It has always started first time always.Something still not exactly right.Any Ideas would be great.If needed I will start a new post If no one hits on this.Thanks again guys and gals!!!!!!!!!