Any looked at mounting an air tank above the drive line next to the mufler?

A a matter of fact I did! I did a 3" body lift and I saw all of that "wasted space, a perfect place for an air tank! I would probably mount it to the frame on the crossmember underneath the back seats. That way it is a little more protected.


Packman

I have my spare removed from underneath (doesn't fit anymore), and was eyeing up the space where it was for dual air tanks. Not sure where to fit the compressor, though.... I'd like to fit dual batteries in the engine bay, that would pretty much make sure an air compressor didn't fit there. I'd try to fit an air compressor underneath if I could find one that had a remote-able air intake and could stand being submerged.

I have yet to see one, you could probably use a plastic battery box and seal it somehow. and Iam sure you could easily fab a remote intake. I would route it through the "air flap" on the passenger side.

Has anybody though about using the PowerTank sytem? I know they are $300+ but, it seems like a more compact system you could mount in the cargo area? I am considering that as my source of air for my ARB air lockers when I get them.

Originally posted by packman
I have yet to see one, you could probably use a plastic battery box and seal it somehow. and Iam sure you could easily fab a remote intake. I would route it through the "air flap" on the passenger side.

most likely you would have heat dissipation issues if you put the compressor in a water tight box. my ARB compressor gets REALLY hot when in use.

Originally posted by rrdstarr
Has anybody thought about using the PowerTank sytem? I know they are $300+

I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but you can make your own power tank. I have one that I got from my dad that I believe is an old scuba tank. My dad has been using them for about 20 years, long before I ever heard of the power tank. I think he got the idea from a friend of his who is in the fire & safety business. I'm not sure how hard it is to find the tanks, but it has to be cheaper than buying a power tank.

Originally posted by rrdstarr
Has anybody though about using the PowerTank sytem?

I seem to remember seeing that done in one of the 4 Wheel Drive magazines.

Originally posted by ScottG

I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but you can make your own power tank. I have one that I got from my dad that I believe is an old scuba tank.

I haven't been diving since I lived on Florida, but are scuba tanks rated for Co2 ?

Having breathed both of those gases before I am sure CO2 would be rated at the same pressure? Been too many years......Will investigate it further.

The only reason I wondered is the constant pressure in a Power Tank. It's at 3000 psi right up until there is nothing less, because the CO2 evaporates and creates air (is there a physics major in the house?).

Plain air in a scuba tank starts at 3000 psi for a good fill, then drops off to 500 when you head back to the boat (although I was always empty when I surfaced:).

Here is the writing that is on the bottle. Maybe someone can make sense of it.

3AL
CTF/DOT-E6498-1800 20#C02
U713410 Luxfer
A 5 80

There has been quite a few posts on doing your own CO2 tank on another list I monitor. Most people seem to recommend going to a welding supplier or home-brew beer web site.

Originally posted by xoc
The only reason I wondered is the constant pressure in a Power Tank. It's at 3000 psi right up until there is nothing less, because the CO2 evaporates and creates air (is there a physics major in the house?).

Plain air in a scuba tank starts at 3000 psi for a good fill, then drops off to 500 when you head back to the boat (although I was always empty when I surfaced:).

I had asked my brother about this a few months ago. He's gotten pretty far on certification, and he didn't think there would be any problem with using a diving tank.

Originally posted by Toy Man
Most people seem to recommend going to a welding supplier or home-brew beer web site.



That is probably correct because a neighbor of mine who gave me the gauges was using them for a home brew set up in his house. Prior to getting the gauges, the tank just had a hose running off of it for filling up tires. I bought a kit at Sears for about $20 that came with a hose and all the connectors necessary to hook up air tools.

I am told that you can use a welding tank which will hold more air, but is heavier. From the pictures I've seen in magazines of the power tank, it appears to be made of some type of alloy similar to my tank. My tank is pretty heavy, so maybe people aren't using welding tanks because of the weight issue? My tank currently has about a 1100 pounds of pressure in it, but it has been about a year since I had it filled up. I am not sure how much pressure the tank holds when it is full.

you also have to watch which hose you use for a CO2 tank. if nothing elese order the hose from powertank that they rate for CO2 usage. it is designed to take the freezing air. ice and what not that a CO@ tank can output. Philosopher put one on his after a year or so of a different hose that did work, but not well. and there were very norticable improvements when he switched to the powertank hose.

Originally posted by Synchro
you also have to watch which hose you use for a CO2 tank. if nothing elese order the hose from powertank that they rate for CO2 usage. it is designed to take the freezing air. ice and what not that a CO@ tank can output. Philosopher put one on his after a year or so of a different hose that did work, but not well. and there were very norticable improvements when he switched to the powertank hose.

What kind of tank is he using?

You might want to consider using what you (or most) already have on the Xterra. Just drill and tap your boulder bars (or what ever brand you have). Its probably not the volume of a tank but it does improve the QA2 usefullness. I wouldn't use it for ARB locker use, but for things like air tool use and inflation. And its just a quick drill and tap procedure!

Ned,

The problem there is volume. Those bars you have don't hold much air at all, maybe 2.5 gallons at most. That running off of a QA2 or ARB compressor isn't going to produce much volume (at .7 CFM or less at 90 PSI). The power tank is an awesome setup if you have a place to safely put the tank. But keep in mind that every joe you off-road with is going to want to use your air to air his tires up as well. I have said this before and will say it again, although it is not as applicable here as other boards, people are quick to spend thousands of dollars on tires and wheels, but when it comes time to spend money on stuff that can't be seen on the outside but will make them a better and more self-sufficient off-roader, they won't spend a dime. Many are all show and no go. If you are a serious off-roader, some sort of on-board air system is a must, period. How you achieve it is up to you. But don't you think it's worth the $200 or so dollars you would spend on a Powertank if it saves you trouble when you blow a bead while off-roading? Better that than a tow truck bill. Three or four of those and you have hit the cost of the Powertank.

No question War.
I wasn't trying to compare a scuba type tank to a QA2. I just happened to have a QA2 and (though limited in volume as you state) it does help a bit at very little cost or time.

I'd love to have the onboard air you have! A scuba type tank is also a great and simple solution. ...and you'r right, my compressor is used for more than 4 tires on most outings!

While we are talking about air, www.oasis.com has what they call Super Chucks. These are straight thru (not angled), high flow clip on chucks (that stay on) available in open or closed.

I REALLY like them.

You cannot order them from the web site. Phone or email them.

About $24 for two - I think that includes shipping.

Well, I was going to post this this week anyhow, but it seems as though the subject has been brought up here.

I'll Start by answering the questions about pressure. I'm going by my experience here. The pressure in the tank is relatively constant until empty. Take note the constant pressure is relative to temperature. My tank has a constant pressure of 1100 PSI in the garage out of the sun. However, when I keep the tank in the back of my black truck under the black tonneau cover, I have seen pressures of 1400 PSI. According to where I purchased my tank, the valve will blow off at approx 1800 PSI for safety.

Here's my exact setup as of Today.
20# CO2 Steel Tank Cost $70 delivered
Low Pressure Regulator 55psi blow off valve $49
20' Powerhose from Powertank $40 Delivered and includes fittings and air chuck
Misc quick disconnects $10
Fill Tank $20

Total $189 for a filled useable CO2 Tank

This works great for airing up tires. I have not popped a bead yet :D So I don't know if there is enough pressure to reseat a bead. I'll know when it happens. Although I don't usually air down low enough to have to worry about that.

Using Powertank's numbers for the amount of tires this setup will refill, I should be able to air up 44 31x10.5 tires from 15-30psi. That calculates out to about $.50 a tire. Not bad. So, I figure I'll just charge that for the convenience of using my setup at the end of the day...:devil:

Here's a pic of the Tank.
http://www.wilburburns.com/off-road/images/co2tank/tank2.jpg

Here's a pic of it loaded and ready to go wheeling.
http://www.wilburburns.com/off-road/images/co2tank/tankandhilift.jpg

Cliff
And yes I drove a Frontier, Not an Xterra

Originally posted by wilburburns
And yes I drove a Frontier, Not an Xterra

yeah, but we don't hold that against you too often. ;)

nice air tank setup too.

The hose looks fairly short, is that normal or does one have the ability to lengthen the hose as necessary? Also, judging by the figures you gave, it sounds like instead of looking for cheaper alternatives it is already pretty cheap. Definitely a lot cheaper than building an on-board air system. Are you able to find recharges locally? One of our guys here investigated it and had trouble finding a place to recharge a tank.

Originally posted by warmonger
The hose looks fairly short, is that normal or does one have the ability to lengthen the hose as necessary? Also, judging by the figures you gave, it sounds like instead of looking for cheaper alternatives it is already pretty cheap. Definitely a lot cheaper than building an on-board air system. Are you able to find recharges locally? One of our guys here investigated it and had trouble finding a place to recharge a tank.

That is the hose from www.powertank.com, which is longer than the truck when stretched (I have the same one). Good enough for me to leave my tank in the cargo area and fill up the front tires.

I fill mine up @ a local fire extinguisher refiller for about $15 every couple months.

Warmonger, You are correct, the cost is already pretty low. Lower than a good quality compressor for an on board air system. I researched this quite a bit. I really wanted to put a compressor in, but the overall cost was going to be to much for me.

I found a really good deal for the tank on Ebay. It was reconditioned and tested. It was being sold by a welding supply house in Wisconsin. www.tollgas.com . They have more and typically put 3 up for auction at once, therefore keeping the price down. Normally, a 20# CO2 tank would cost much more than that. I saved on shipping and purchased the regulator from them also, so I think I got a really good deal. I priced out the same type of equipment from local suppliers and the price was equivalent to www.powertank.com prices.

The hose is coiled and from Powertank. I can reach all 4 tires with the tank mounted in the truck. However, I also carry a second 25' coiled hose that I bought from sears just in case I need some extra length.

I can get it filled at about 4 different locations locally. The cost is $20. It takes approx 3 days to get my tank back, so I try and drop it off on Monday and it will be ready by the next weekend easily. Also, Mike's tank is smaller (I think he has a 10# tank) and it cost's about $15 to fill, therefore his cost to run is more than mine. :( That probably has more to do with location than anything else. It may also be because he has his filled at a Fire extinguisher shop and I get mine filled at a welding shop.:bandit:

There are some hidden costs to a CO2 setup.
[list=1]
The tank must be refilled (dependant upon hoow often you use it and for what purpose)
The tank must be tested every 5 years (this costs between $20-$40 around here, depending on if it needs any work to repair)
You are carrying an object under pressure, which could become a projectile if not mounted and well secured in it's location (The valve is the only weak link, but I don't want to see what it would do if knocked off)
[/list=1] OK, So the last item is not a cost, but it could be if something happened.:eek:

Also, My regulator will not allow me to run air tools, or run an ARB, but that is just a matter of getting a new regulator, so When that day comes, I'll deal with that. It would make the ultimate sleeper for an ARB locker though. No compressor to kick in and tell people you are locking your locker, just nice quiet operation.. :devil:

Cliff

That is why I want the PowerTank setup to run the ARB lockers! When PNWX usually four wheels we are within a few miles of a gas station with air. So if I have ARB install the locker will they agree to hook it up to a CO2 system like the powertank?

That is why I want the PowerTank setup to run the ARB lockers! When PNWX usually four wheels we are within a few miles of a gas station with air. So if I have ARB install the locker will they agree to hook it up to a CO2 system like the powertank?

I feel that it is unlikely any ARB authorized installer would do such a non-standard setup - but you can always ask.

wilburburns,

As for the sleeper aspect of on-board air systems, Mine makes so much air pressure that I don't have to run it again after the first time until I start airing up tires. :)

But as in anything, there is a good side and bad side. The tank has the pressure missile effect and a supply that costs for replenishment. The on-board air system requires a healthy initial cash outlay, but is a continuously renewable source with no extra cost. The important part with both is to do it right the first time.

I think the tank is a wonderful idea, although I wouldn't personally put it inside an SUV. But then again, many people wouldn't put batteries inside an SUV and I did, so it is a personal choice. From what I have heard and seen from users of the tank, it can be quite beneficial. Even my on-board air system has limitations when it comes to resetting beads on over-size tires. This is a limitation the Powertank is not subject to.

Originally posted by wilburburns
The tank must be tested every 5 years (this costs between $20-$40 around here, depending on if it needs any work to repair)


I have been wondering about that. I got hassled about testing the last time I had mine filled, but they filled it anyway. Mine has 5 80 stamped on it, so I think it hasn't been tested since 1980!