My 2000 Trooper (4WD; 120,000 miles) uses an inordinate amount of oil; about 1 quart every 500 miles. I've cleaned out the EGR valve and tube which also cleaned up my tailpipe...for about a day or so. Anyway, I'm considering replacing the timing belt and was wondering what you thought of the idea of having new rings installed at the same time.

I read a post by another 2000 Trooper owner in which someone mentioned a Sea Foam soak? What's that all about? I've had the BG intake service done without any improvement and I've used a half dozen cans of Sea Foam. I add up to one full can of Sea Foam to the oil, run the vehicle for about 30 - 60 minutes, then change the oil; still no improvement. Is the soak performed differently?

Your thoughts are very much appreciated, especially about the rings.

Thanks,

Larry

the soak is done by pulling the plugs and dumping some seafoam in. Let is sit over night. The start the engine, with the plugs out yet to prevent hydro lock.

Larry, from what I understand, new rings wont do it. It has to do with oil drain-back holes in the oil control ring land area (machined into the pistons). These holes plug up. I have yet to hear anyone post back as to if an overnight cylinder soak worked or not!?! It's super easy and cheap to do!!! If anything will clear those drain-back holes, a cylinder soak will. $$$ fuel system cleaners will do nothing for this. Seafoam is good stuff, but any thin/solvent type cleaner will do for a cylinder soak. If you can r/r spark plugs, you can do this! C'mon Larry! for the sake of science (and fellow isuzu'ers) try it & post back!

G/luck
Joel

Sounds simple enough, but how much Sea Foam do I put into each cylinder?

I'll give it a try this weekend if not sooner and let you all you how it turns out.

Thanks.

I would pour atleast 1-2 ounces thru each plug hole. Be sure to throw some rags over the valve covers so when you turn the engine over w/ plugs removed the rags catch the spray & you dont blast dirty seafoam everywhere! This process might take more than one application to fully clean the drain back holes and ring packs. Keep in mind some seafoam and junk will drain past the pistons and into the oil sump. No biggie as this stuff is fine to run in the engine oil, but not a bad idea to change the oil after anyway.

Thanks Larry! Keep us posted

Joel

Thanks for the advice Joel. :) I'll try it this weekend. When you say that it may take a couple of tries, are you suggesting that I try it twice back-to-back, or wait a bit between soaks? If the latter, how much time should elapse between soaks?

Thanks

Larry

Larry what I would do if your 3.5L (or 3.2L) burns oil is: Add an ounce or two to each cylinder & let it soak over night. Next day, bump the starter over for a second to cycle the pistons & valves, then add more seafoam to each cylinder & let it sit again for as long as time allows. Button everything up, change oil and filter, run your truck normally for a week or two to track oil consumption. Hopefully it slows or stops. If oil consumption does not improve, I'd try a cleaning product one more time. If it still doesn't help after that, atleast we tried!!
G/luck
Joel

I removed the plugs and poured about 3-4 ounces of Seafoam into each cylinder on Friday afternoon and let it set until Saturday afternoon. I then cranked the engine for about 5 seconds, and added another 3-4 ounces of Seafoam into each cylinder. I took the spark plugs and soaked them in Seafoam too. I let all this set until Sunday after church. I cranked the engine, brushed the plugs, and installed them. I changed the oil and buttoned everything up.

When I started the engine, it took a few cranks to finally turnover, but I expected that. What I didn't expect was the incredible volume of white smoke that came out of the tailpipe...I effectively hid my whole driveway in a cloud of smoke. Of course the check engine light (CEL) came on. So I ran the engine for a couple of minutes to see if the smoke would diminish...it didn't. I turned the engine off and disconnected the battery to clear the CEL.

I let is set for about 2 hours then drove it to church last evening; it didn't smoke immediately, but after a couple of minutes it smoked moderately, nothing like it had at first. We drove it to and from church, about 22 miles total. The vehicle still smokes, but just a little bit and it seems to be decreaseing with time; I'm guessing that it's burning off the Seafoam residue.

The jury is still out on whether this helped the oili consumption, but I'll monitor it for a while and let you know how it turns out.

Seafoam will cause HUGE plumes of white smoke. It sounds like the seafoam got into all the nooks and crannies it was supposed to! It probably will take a highway run to clear the smoke completely as some cleaner would have blown into the exhaust system as well. CEL light was probably a misfire code. So far so good! Keeping my fingers crossed!
Thanks Lem.
Joel

All that work? All you had to do was go to WalMart and get a bottle of CD2 Oil Detergent for less than $3 and pour it in the crankcase. Fixed the oil usage is both of my '99 Troopers and since I started posting my results on another Trooper Forum, others are also seeing good results. I'm only using 1 quart every 3000 miles now, was using 1 quart every 500 miles.

sounds good to me too:

here is a write up on Sea Foam:

http://members.nuvox.net/~on.roz/cars/z28/seafoam.html

and a quote from the article:
"Enjoy the fogging of your neighborhood"

All that work? All you had to do was go to WalMart and get a bottle of CD2 Oil Detergent for less than $3 and pour it in the crankcase. Fixed the oil usage is both of my '99 Troopers....

I'm all for a quick, easy and cheap fix! I've just heard too many reports over the years of oil adds/cleaners not doing a thing for the 1998+ oil usage. A cylinder soak is a tried and true, proven method that works for most applications. Even better if CD2 does the trick just by adding it to the oil sump!

Thanks
Joel

I'm all for a quick, easy and cheap fix! I've just heard too many reports over the years of oil adds/cleaners not doing a thing for the 1998+ oil usage. A cylinder soak is a tried and true, proven method that works for most applications. Even better if CD2 does the trick just by adding it to the oil sump!

Thanks
Joel

I know about every other oil additive claimed to fix the oil usage problem and I tried them all, along with cleaning the EGR and PVC systems. But I'm here to tell all that the CD2 WORKS!! Within 5000 miles and 2 treatments I went from 1 quart every 500 miles to 1 quart every 3000 miles in both of my '99 Troopers, both with over 100k. Both were bought used with about 40k miles and had never before done better than 1 quart every 1000 miles. I use dino 10w30.

Larry, from what I understand, new rings wont do it. It has to do with oil drain-back holes in the oil control ring land area (machined into the pistons). These holes plug up. I have yet to hear anyone post back as to if an overnight cylinder soak worked or not!?! It's super easy and cheap to do!!! If anything will clear those drain-back holes, a cylinder soak will. $$$ fuel system cleaners will do nothing for this. Seafoam is good stuff, but any thin/solvent type cleaner will do for a cylinder soak. If you can r/r spark plugs, you can do this! C'mon Larry! for the sake of science (and fellow isuzu'ers) try it & post back!

G/luck
Joel

Joel, I had my Isuzu dealer perform this overnight soak on my 99 Tropper after a 10K oil consumption test. The results after was an increase in oil consumption!! When my motor was taken apart 3 months later, it was found to be clean. In fact the rings and drain back holes were not clogged. I held the pistons in my own hands and I know which holes that you are refering to. The machine shop doing the measurements said that there was very little wear on the cylinder walls and that the original machining marks were visible. I don't think that there is a problem with the drainback holes as claimed. What we did find was a mismatch of piston/ring sizes for the cylinders that they were installed. There was another Trooper owner (2001) getting this oil consumption test done at the same time. His results after the tear down were the same. The problem that they found was that the cylinders were over bored, for the size of pistons and rings used. Before they did a warranty short block replacement, the dealer had to see if larger oversize rings were available to try to fix the problem. No such rings were available. They had found from other dealers that tried after market rings, were not successul in fixing the problem.

Now that I have a new motor, my oil consumption has been near zero. It is now much like our Honda in terms of oil consumption. Normal, even after 25K.

I am very thankful that someone posted on another site, a link to a Russian website that had the complete service manual for my Trooper. With this information, I knew what to expect when the dealer took apart my motor. They (the dealer) could not hide the facts about the cylinder sizes and coresponding pistons to be used. Infact, the dealer used this information to help me get my new motor from Isuzu rather than just replace the rings.

This is my 2 cents on the matter.

Patrick

...... The problem that they found was that the cylinders were over bored, for the size of pistons and rings used. Before they did a warranty short block replacement, the dealer had to see if larger oversize rings were available to try to fix the problem. No such rings were available. They had found from other dealers that tried after market rings, were not successul in fixing the problem.

This is my 2 cents on the matter.

Patrick

That's the first I've heard of that! It's a wonder you didn't have low compression & excessive blowby (crank case pressure) with the over-bore condition?? Plus i'm not sure why they didn't just press new (tighter) sleeves into the block?! A whole new engine was a better deal anyhoo. If the cylinders were overbored, you would have oil consumption from day one :uhoh: . Good to hear isuzu took care of it for you.

G/luck
Joel

That's the first I've heard of that! It's a wonder you didn't have low compression & excessive blowby (crank case pressure) with the over-bore condition?? Plus i'm not sure why they didn't just press new (tighter) sleeves into the block?! A whole new engine was a better deal anyhoo. If the cylinders were overbored, you would have oil consumption from day one :uhoh: . Good to hear isuzu took care of it for you.

G/luck
Joel

I'm not an expert on the matter, but I've been told that new rings have a little bit of "spring" in them that can initially compensate for the oversized cylinder. What happens over time with heat cool cycles is that some of the "spring" gets taken out of the rings and it's ability to compensate for this diminishes. I had an oil consumption problem that started at 15K and progressively worsened to 1 quart/500 miles at 50K.
Of the six cylinders, only one was in spec, which was an "A" sized piston and rings matched to a cylinder that was in the "A" spec range. The five others had "C" sized pistons and rings in a cylinder that was well beyond the "C" spec. In fact, they were at the very limit of the overbore size, meaning that they could not be machined again. Why this was done, only Isuzu can answer. I know that my new block has all "B" sized pistons and hopfully in "B" spec cylinders. With respect to pressing in new sleeves, this option was not disscussed. Isuzu did not require the block to be sent back to be "recycled", rather they were told to dispose of it locally.

Like I said earlier, knowledge is power, and I believe that was the underlining reason why I got the short block replaced and not just a band-aid repair.

Patrick

I did the cylinder soak and it seemed to help. The last I checked, I used about 1 quart at 1,000 miles. I think I'll try that CD2 detergent as well.

thanks.

Looks like a step in the right direction! A 50% reduction in oil consumption. Time will tell if it gets better or worse. CD2 is worth a try, as is another soak if you could stand it :banghead: .

G/luck
Joel

OK. I'm just a visitor from the Rodeo Forum. There was a link to this thread over there. I, too, have an oil consumption problem -- about a quart per 500-600 miles at highway speeds and about half that around town.

The cylinder soak sounds intriguing but it's starting to get kind of cold here so I might give it a try come spring. In the meantime, the CD2 option sounds like it might be worth trying.

Question -- After putting the CD2 in, what then? Drive a little and change the oil? Drive a lot and change the oil? No oil change required?

Thanks for any input.

...Question -- After putting the CD2 in, what then? Drive a little and change the oil? Drive a lot and change the oil? No oil change required?

Thanks for any input.

Follow the instructions on the bottle of CD2. You don't want to vary from the manufacturer specific instructions on oil additives as some can be very harsh.

G/luck
Joel

OK. I'm just a visitor from the Rodeo Forum. There was a link to this thread over there. I, too, have an oil consumption problem -- about a quart per 500-600 miles at highway speeds and about half that around town.

The cylinder soak sounds intriguing but it's starting to get kind of cold here so I might give it a try come spring. In the meantime, the CD2 option sounds like it might be worth trying.

Question -- After putting the CD2 in, what then? Drive a little and change the oil? Drive a lot and change the oil? No oil change required?

Thanks for any input.

The directions say add every 2000 miles. I ran the first bottle on a fresh oil change and then changed the oil at 2000 miles (The oil is so dirty at that point you will want to change the oil). Ran another bottle and went 3000 miles before changing the oil again. At this point my consumption had improved to using 2 qts during the 3000 mile period(added one). Did not use CD2 during the next oil change and used 1 qt in a 3000 mile period. Even without the CD2 the oil got plenty dirty I assume because the sludge that was loosened by the CD2 was still breaking up. I'm on my second oil change now without CD2 and oil consumption is still minimal.

SWEET!

I'm due to change my oil this weekend. I'll get me some CD2 and add it to the fresh oil and change her out at 2K.

Thanks!

SWEET!

I'm due to change my oil this weekend. I'll get me some CD2 and add it to the fresh oil and change her out at 2K.

Thanks!

Please post your results! Thanks

I've done two treatments with the CD2, 2-3K miles each, and It hasn't helped my truck. Still burns 1qt/700-800 miles. I've also tried two full A-RX cycles and a run of LC, but normal dosage. I've run seafoam in the oil for 200 miles. Running a 20W-50 M1 also didn't help. Was talking with about this yesterday and came to a couple of conclusions. If heavier weight oil didn't slow consumption, then its not likely a seal problem. Probably still burning off slowly just like lighter weight oils. We agreed that a cylinder soak is my best/last hope, since I've tried almost everything else. In regards to the soak, it seems that you couldn't do all at the same time, since some of the pistons will be at the high level, and at an angle. Any fluids poured in would leak down into the exhaust system. Wouldn't you need to measure with a plastic/wood stick and soak just the pistons that are halfway or lower in its travel? I'm going to try a LC soak next week half one day, other half the next day. I'll report back how it goes.

I've done two treatments with the CD2, 2-3K miles each, and It hasn't helped my truck. Still burns 1qt/700-800 miles. I've also tried two full A-RX cycles and a run of LC, but normal dosage. I've run seafoam in the oil for 200 miles. Running a 20W-50 M1 also didn't help. Was talking with about this yesterday and came to a couple of conclusions. If heavier weight oil didn't slow consumption, then its not likely a seal problem. Probably still burning off slowly just like lighter weight oils. We agreed that a cylinder soak is my best/last hope, since I've tried almost everything else. In regards to the soak, it seems that you couldn't do all at the same time, since some of the pistons will be at the high level, and at an angle. Any fluids poured in would leak down into the exhaust system. Wouldn't you need to measure with a plastic/wood stick and soak just the pistons that are halfway or lower in its travel? I'm going to try a LC soak next week half one day, other half the next day. I'll report back how it goes.

What year? How many miles?

1999 Trooper, 113K miles, original owner.

..... Wouldn't you need to measure with a plastic/wood stick and soak just the pistons that are halfway or lower in its travel?...

Any piston at top dead center *might* not take much liquid cleaner as cylinder volume would be low, but keep in mind the valves are way up high in the combustion chamber. The only place for the liquid cleaner to go would be up and out the exhaust valves, or up thru the intake valves, where it would sit in the intake runners and spill back down into the combustion chamber anyway. At any rate, you should bump the starter over once or twice during the cleaning process to move the pistons and *fluff* the rings a bit. You will need to add more cleaner if you bump the starter. Lube Control would definately be my product of choice for a cylinder soak. Seafoam would be #2 choice. Keep us posted!

G/luck
Joel

maybe if you are doing one side, you could jack up that side to help level off the cylinders?

Over at the old ITOG board some time ago, one of the seasoned vets suggests tilting the ENTIRE truck to allow the dirty cleaner to dump out of the plug towers!! :iceslolan Not needed, you wouldnt get it all out that way anyway. Have the engine do the work by cranking the engine & let the pistons blow it out.

G/luck
Joel

I put the CD2 in my '99 at the last oil change. I was checking the oil everyday at first and liking what I saw (no change in the level). But then I started checking it once a week and was seeing the level drop.

I'm now at about 1000 miles since adding the CD2 and this morning I showed the level down a little less than half a quart. This might be a slight improvement over my historical usage but since all of my miles lately have been around town it's hard to tell.

I'll keep you posted.

I put the CD2 in my '99 at the last oil change. I was checking the oil everyday at first and liking what I saw (no change in the level). But then I started checking it once a week and was seeing the level drop.

I'm now at about 1000 miles since adding the CD2 and this morning I showed the level down a little less than half a quart. This might be a slight improvement over my historical usage but since all of my miles lately have been around town it's hard to tell.

I'll keep you posted.

Right before driving up to PA for Thanksgiving, I topped off the oil and added a bottle of CD2. I drove about 510 miles and had to add 1.5 quarts of oil. :mad: This is the second bottle of CD2 I've used with no marked improvement. I'm planning to drive to Florida over Christmas :biggrin: and will put about 1600 miles on the vehicle; before we leave I plan to do at least two cylinder soaks on two separate weekends. I'll carefully track the oil consumption and let you all know if there's any improvement.

I can't wait until I can replace this thing with a Toyota Sequoia :naughty:

Larry, has the oil consumption been reduced at all after your last cylinder soak (running on plain oil, no adds)?
Thanks,
Joel

Larry, has the oil consumption been reduced at all after your last cylinder soak (running on plain oil, no adds)?
Thanks,
Joel

Joel,
At first there seemed to be a slight improvement: 1 quart of oil~750 miles. This latest trip didn't exhibit any real improvement however. I will try additional soaks to see if they help. Any other additives that you've found helpful?

Thanks,
Larry

I'd want to use the strongest liquid cleaner/solvent I could. You just blow it out of the cylinders anyway. As long as is donest have silicone. Liquid WD40 is one of the best 'cleaners' I know of, but I think it has silicone in it, as that will destroy O2 sensors on contact. I've been using occasional fuel power and lube control treatments in my 2002 since it was basically new. It is a bit spendy to mail-order a gallon of each. I think it was like $70 total last time I orderd, but it lasts a long time in moderation. LC is an awesome cleaner. http://www.lubecontrol.com/

G/luck
Joel

I put the CD2 in my '99 at the last oil change. I was checking the oil everyday at first and liking what I saw (no change in the level). But then I started checking it once a week and was seeing the level drop.

I'm now at about 1000 miles since adding the CD2 and this morning I showed the level down a little less than half a quart. This might be a slight improvement over my historical usage but since all of my miles lately have been around town it's hard to tell.

I'll keep you posted.

Changed the oil last night at 1995 miles. I wouldn't say the oil looked any dirtier than normal at 3-4K miles but it's hard to say. There wasn't much 'grit' in the bucket which was an improvement over normal.

In the course of 1995 miles, I had to add one quart of oil. This 'seems' to be an improvement over my historical oil usage but most of my historical experience has been with 80-90% of the miles at 70+ MPH. I've been working closer to home lately and only get above 70 about 20% of the time.

Another complication could be that I used 10W-40 instead of 10W-30 on the last change so maybe the higher visocosity helped.

It's cold here now so I went back to 10W-30 on this change. I plan to stop and get another bottle of CD2 on the way home tonight and will add it before heading out in the morning.

At this point I am "cautiously optimistic".

Should I change my oil again at 2K miles or go back to my normal interval of 3-4K?

..Should I change my oil again at 2K miles or go back to my normal interval of 3-4K?

I'd do what ever the bottle of CD2 says. Dunno if that stuff is safe to keep in the sump for a full OCI or not.

G/luck
Joel

I'd do what ever the bottle of CD2 says. Dunno if that stuff is safe to keep in the sump for a full OCI or not.

G/luck
Joel

Following the label instuctions (2K) is probably the best idea but I was wondering what others' experience had been. I'm pretty sure I read elsewhere in this forum about folks leaving it in longer.

I don't know that there's any cumulative benefit to using it on back to back oil changes so maybe I'll leave it out on this cycle and see what the consumption is. That way I don't have to be lying on the cold concrete in February...

I don't think it's a problem leaving it in, but as you top off your oil due to consuption, it will dilute the CD2 and its effectiveness will be reduced as you go.

I have some CD2 here and willk try it later. The stuff I have is in the yellow bottle and it says detergent on it. I assume it is safe to go further than 2k with it because it is an oil extender. I think all it is, is more of what's all ready in the oil. I would maybe add it well into the oil change.

Marc

Our 99 Trooper has 140k and had started to use more oil between changes, I was having to add about 1-1/2 Qts every 3k. I switched to Mobil1 5w40 diesel oil (Truck & Suv) and after several changes I have seen the consumption start to drop. Diesel oil has a much higher detergent level than reg oil and has additives to keep soot etc in suspension, so maybe it doesn't settle out as easily. Will keep you guys posted.