The base Camaro and Firebird have 3.8 liters for a V6, A V6!!! Why don't they go the 100+bhp per liter route like BMW, Honda, Ferrari etc.? What is my couuntries obsession with muscule cars, and extreamly high displacment cars??? Is this question stupid or have I gone MAD!??????

BTW, I love American cars etc. , this is just a question. :D :)

My best guess is that the engines aren't designed and engineered to make 100 hp/L. I wish our domestics were made with higher quality engines and better designs. They look so bland when put next to an imported car. The new Dodge viper was designed by a Japanese guy. You can tell the difference. I think it looks like an S2000 on steroids.

I'm no authority, but I'll drop in my two cents...

I think it's because of an evolution in American automotive engineering. 70-80 years ago, without all of today's technology, the only way to make an engine more powerful was to make it bigger. So, they got pretty big, up to the point where anymore displacement is actually inefficent. Then as technology advanced, it was added to these large engines to improve performance, but they could do it with out having to make the engine bigger. So, if anything, the American manufacturers have been working their way smaller, or outsourcing the parts from foreign manufacturers.

Don't forget about american (Chevy) small-block engines, either.

Silver S2000 is pretty close.
Americans have simpley had a diffrent attidude to cars than the rest of the world, its one reason so few american designed cars are sold in large numbers out side of North America.
That attidude however is changing as emision laws get tighter and tighter, and the public perception of what a good automobile changes. However remeber that the largest selling vechile in the world is the Ford F series Truck (which is only sold in large numbers in North America), so they have a long way to go.
But basicly its a cultural diffrence, look at how efficant Japanese culture is, and how small and efficant thier cars are, compared to excesive American Culture and the excesive cars they have produced. (generalisations, of course.)
Thats the social explanation, I'll let Texan do the Technical one. :sun:

From what I've seen, Because they run lower compresion PSI, and they run at lower RPM then imports, they last longer. but I also have a limited expierence with imports, but alot with american cars.

Americans like things big (who was it that said that? Was it TR?). And, there's no replacement for displacement.

Thanks. But enzo, don't you wonder why the Corvette doesn't have a 5.5-6.0 liter DOHC trillion valve V8 like your Ferrari's? It just gets to me some times. But you right, theres is no replacment for displacment. :)

Wow, how ironic...my Corvette ZR1 has a 5.7L DOHC 32 Valve V8:D

Here's a pic of it: http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/159815lt5clean.jpg

And let's not forget that those "ancient" pushrod motors you guys are mostly talking about are physically smaller than an identical overhead cam engine, and that they continue to remain emmissions compliant (more easily than turbo motors to boot) and gasoline efficient. My father's '98 Camaro Z28, with its LS1 engine, makes a TON of power at any RPM and still gets better fuel economy than my car, even with his automatic trans. Now of course that demonstrates the difference in driving habits also, but the point is that a 5.7L pushrod, wedge head V8 can get better mileage than a 2.2L DOHC, pentroof head I4 even though it's in a heavier car with a less efficient transmission design (stick vs. auto). And to top it all off, the LS1 is a very inexpensive engine to purchase or modify, in part due to the fact that they didn't go with such a complex engine.

Ps- Pushrods are a newer invention than overhead cams.

It's all about Power to weight. It's common sense that More power comes from a Bigger engine, when People complained about cars being to slow, companys just made bigger engines with massive amounts of power. Chevy still makes the 502 V-8 as a Crate engine availiable for purchase.

I saw on TNN a "Crate Engine Special" on one of those trucks/hotrods shows, Ford sells a 602 cid.

A chevy 502 is alot more abundant then a 602 Ford.


You think that's big? Merlin-World Industries makes engine that runs on pump gas and is 672 cid. That on hella big engine, stick that in your Z28.

GM's 3.8L V6 dates back over 40 years. No matter what GM tells you, the LS1 can trace its roots back nearly 50 years. These are ancient engines.

That LT5 engine in the pictured Corvette ZR1 was a Lotus design and is no longer in production. GM feels that pushrod engines are more economical to build (which they are) and fulfill their purposes well enough. You have to admit that a pushrod V8 engine in a Corvette that generates 350hp and gets 19 mpg around town is pretty darn impressive.

American engines will be reduced in size in future generations. Many of the old GM engines are reaching the end of their lives. They are getting more and more expensive to certify. Emissions laws are making it harder for companies like GM and Ford and the Chrysler Group to keep these engines in production.

True, the LS1 has roots older than most people on these boards. But they are very good roots, spawned from what's probably the single most successful engine design in all of automotive history. Additionally, the pushrod design is not only more economical, but leaves you with a significantly smaller engine package vs. a otherwise identical design with overhead cams.

What about economics? I think the auto manufacturers can sell more mid performance (low cost) sedans than high performance two seat missiles. Therefore, the design of our vehicles is driven by demand. Also it is hard to pull a trailer with a Ferrari or Corvette. To throw the wife and kids in the suburban, hook up the trailer, and visit Mt. Rushmore is part of the American dream.
The technology of the low cost engines has increased. I have a 2.3L 180 HP 4 cylinder in my Beretta that gets over 38 MPG highway. It also has 160,000 miles on it and it runs great. Even the V-8's are designed to be more efficient and last longer.

I love the sound of custom exhaust on a Big V-8. Can't wait till I get mine.

672 cid? That thing must have paint can cylinders!

replace displacement with a turbo.
power to weight is not about a bigger motor.
its about using the power more efficiently.
in that equation, it is easier to just make more power to make up for the weight. hmm...
so, when you compare a 400 lb bike with a 120hp motor in it to my 89 prelude that weighs around 2650 with 140hp....
who is using the power more efficiently?
do the power to weight...
how can i catch the bike?
A> get rid of unnecessary weight
B> drop in an h22a with more power and vtec

b is a bigger motor with more power. so it is making up for the deficiency, instead of decreasing it...

this is the theory with american cars...
if you weigh alot, just drop in a bigger motor to make more power.

and dont tell me that the bike comparo is unfair, look at the power... it is very similar...
i have more hp so i should kill it right? almost...
just like a crx.
put the same motor in both cars, and the crx will kill b/c it weighs in around 2100 lbs.
better power to weight with identical motor... hmmm... see what i mean?

If GM or any other American manufacturer made Ferrari style engines then not only would the cars be much more expensive but they would be far less reliable.

Engines such as the LS1 and LS6 are really, really good engines. They are fuel efficient and can make as much power and torque as you could ever want. The Ferrari engines have nothing on them except 'wow' factor and they give you the knowledge that you have something exclusive under the hatch.

And few V8s are smaller than the Ford 302. Equivelent engines from Mercedes and other European makers are bigger and heavier.

Personally I find the Ferrari engine sound synthetic and too high-pitched. Give me and American V8 anyday.

Originally posted by Lizard King
If GM or any other American manufacturer made Ferrari style engines then not only would the cars be much more expensive but they would be far less reliable.

Engines such as the LS1 and LS6 are really, really good engines. They are fuel efficient and can make as much power and torque as you could ever want. The Ferrari engines have nothing on them except 'wow' factor and they give you the knowledge that you have something exclusive under the hatch.

And few V8s are smaller than the Ford 302. Equivelent engines from Mercedes and other European makers are bigger and heavier.

Personally I find the Ferrari engine sound synthetic and too high-pitched. Give me and American V8 anyday.

I'll agree in general with the first point. The latter point is a bit odd.

Mercedes-Benz primary V8 is 4.3L. Audi has the 3.7L/4.2L. I believe VW's will be 3.7L. Jaguar's is 4.0L. BMW has the 3.5L/4.4L as their chief V8s.

Except for the larger (and less frequently used) V8s from Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and TVR, I can't think of many European V8s above 5.0L. And the smaller European V8s make more power than many larger American V8s and get just a good gas mileage (as the Ford 302 did).

That "synthetic" sound is what a racing engine sounds like. Not the NASCAR carbureted stuff that Americans like, but the real racing engines that need to go through the gears for corners.

Hudson- I belive what Lizard King was speaking in reference to was the physical size of the Ford 302W small block, which is in fact dimensionally smaller than most other V8's (a shallow crankcase along with diminutive stroke and pushrod valvetrain will do that). For instance, the Jaguar 4.0L V8 you mentioned has a .385" longer stroke than the Ford 302, even though it has damn near 1L less displacement. However, due to the 302's cast iron block it is still heavier than some of those mentioned. And I won't get into the sound/performance of these engines, there's to much to discuss there and most of it would be opinion.

That is indeed what I meant. Few V8s are physically smaller than the 302. Lexus' V8 would be one that is.

When I was mentioning my preference for American V8s I wasn't thinking of NASCAR.

how about the nice loud v8s in the gt series on speedvision? or trans am.. they go through gears...
hmm... some people are biased i agree...
one thing to note is that few foreign cars have a higher tq # than hp, which american cars do ALL the time