I've been discussing with people and we have this big argument going about which would be better for a D16z6/y8.

A Supercharger... or a Turbocharger.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.

I sit with the Turbo because I have read about many Hatch's with the z6/turbo'd running 11's and 12'.

Nothing about Superchargers though.



What do you guys think?

search in the FI forum, or the FI forum for AF in general; there is at least 1 huge thread all about them.

If you're looking for opinions only, then turbo is the way to go. You won't hit 12's with a stock block, if you built it and had a good fuel management you could.

turbo, i dunno why but i think it's more flexible, you have more control over things, i wonder if a person had all the money in the world, could he make a 8 second d16z6 civic, or what about 6 sec? That would be crazy! or even make it compete against nitro dragsters.

^^^^^^my dumb thought at some times^^^^^^

If you didn't searched before posting the thread, remember to use the search function before asking questions. There is a lot of great information to be found by using the AF search function

I ran a quick search in the N2O/Turbo/Superchargers forum, read the first 2 threads listed. They should help you out.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=707836

Remember, don't post in dead threads, so if you still have questions after reading them, ask in here.

... i wonder if a person had all the money in the world, could he make a 8 second d16z6 civic, or what about 6 sec?
8 could be possible, but there's no possibility to get into 6's. The fasterst FWD cars can only get into very high 7's. After that the tires won't be able to get enough traction to get the power to the ground. That's probably why Stephan Papadakis (racer for AEM) changed his car over to an NSX motor and made it a RWD car; and now he's hitting mid 6's.

If you didn't searched before posting the thread, remember to use the search function before asking questions. There is a lot of great information to be found by using the AF search function

My bad. I just made this poll to see which 'charger' people would go with and why.

My bad. I just made this poll to see which 'charger' people would go with and why.

No problem man. Did you read those first to threads inthe search I linked? They should help a lot, they have really good info and example a lot pretty well and in-depth to a certain degree.

I've been discussing with people and we have this big argument going about which would be better for a D16z6/y8.

A Supercharger... or a Turbocharger.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.

I sit with the Turbo because I have read about many Hatch's with the z6/turbo'd running 11's and 12'.

Nothing about Superchargers though.



What do you guys think?


TURBOCHARGER

What would have to be done to a SOHC engine to make it ready for a turbocharger? Would you have to upgrade the internals and such?

What would have to be done to a SOHC engine to make it ready for a turbocharger? Would you have to upgrade the internals and such?
stock they can take few psi
my kit that shoud be on this summer god hope earlier lol.
will be at 7psi

i can't belive im' back to D lol

i can't belive im' back to D lol

But, that's where it's at!


D-series Horsepower with a Turbo ------->:dogpile:

But, that's where it's at!


D-series Horsepower with a Turbo ------->:dogpile:
omg my g/f is giving me a turbo so all i need now are lines and free time!

omg my g/f is giving me a turbo so all i need now are lines and free time!

Hmm, lucky you...free parts:biggrin:. Back to a D huh? It's not so bad, it's cheaper to put a junkyard turbo toghter for a D-series. What did you have before motorwise? I'd love to be given a free turbo, lol. I'm guessing your going to use the good old CX manifold trick with an adaptor plate as the turbo manifold? That's the good part about the D-series...little tricks like that that shave off $$. Too bad that manifold trick doesn't work with as LS...hahaha. Ahh, someday I'll turbo the LS. Oh course, free turbo parts always help speed things along, LOL...no matter what motor you run.

Let me know how it turns out in the end.

Not that it matters now...seeing as your G.F is "giving" you a turbo...but you also have to look at the use of the car itself. Are you wanting to be an all-out-handing-people-their-asses-racer or are you wanting to be a reasonable street car with the ability to kick ass and still use your car to get groceries? Cause one of my friends has a T3/T4 turbo on his civic and my boy Carl has a vortech supercharger...almost everything internal is the same and the same size 1.6L (D16Z6) and I've rode in both of them and seen them race each other. Carl w/ the Vortech kicks my freinds turbo's ass...Think of it.. a supercharger is really good for bottom end torque...the turbo has to spool up...by the time the turbo is spooled up the supercharger is all ready had it's "boost" from the start...and even then after the turbo is spooled up...the VTEC on Carl's car is pushed him a little farther down the track. And even still...the turbo civic...has problems everyday of the week if he's not hauling balls...risking tickets...and wrecks and shit.

Not that it matters now...seeing as your G.F is "giving" you a turbo...but you also have to look at the use of the car itself. Are you wanting to be an all-out-handing-people-their-asses-racer or are you wanting to be a reasonable street car with the ability to kick ass and still use your car to get groceries? Cause one of my friends has a T3/T4 turbo on his civic and my boy Carl has a vortech supercharger...almost everything internal is the same and the same size 1.6L (D16Z6) and I've rode in both of them and seen them race each other. Carl w/ the Vortech kicks my freinds turbo's ass...Think of it.. a supercharger is really good for bottom end torque...the turbo has to spool up...by the time the turbo is spooled up the supercharger is all ready had it's "boost" from the start...and even then after the turbo is spooled up...the VTEC on Carl's car is pushed him a little farther down the track. And even still...the turbo civic...has problems everyday of the week if he's not hauling balls...risking tickets...and wrecks and shit. So I say go supercharger...and BTW sorry for being long-winded...this may make you think...http://jacksonracing.com/CustomerService/Faq.aspx#compare

Don't ask why it posted twice...but read that entire article...especially the part about the J.R GSR and the Greddy GSR. Sorry.

Hmm, lucky you...free parts:biggrin:. Back to a D huh? It's not so bad, it's cheaper to put a junkyard turbo toghter for a D-series. What did you have before motorwise? I'd love to be given a free turbo, lol. I'm guessing your going to use the good old CX manifold trick with an adaptor plate as the turbo manifold? That's the good part about the D-series...little tricks like that that shave off $$. Too bad that manifold trick doesn't work with as LS...hahaha. Ahh, someday I'll turbo the LS. Oh course, free turbo parts always help speed things along, LOL...no matter what motor you run.

Let me know how it turns out in the end.
using my STD one pretty much same as cx as far as how its done i was rocking my obd0 b16 i miss it. then way back my d15b1 ick.
you know cutting up b18a rods you can stuff them into Ds hehe and old b18s are cheap in yards.

Not that it matters now...seeing as your G.F is "giving" you a turbo...but you also have to look at the use of the car itself. Are you wanting to be an all-out-handing-people-their-asses-racer or are you wanting to be a reasonable street car with the ability to kick ass and still use your car to get groceries? Cause one of my friends has a T3/T4 turbo on his civic and my boy Carl has a vortech supercharger...almost everything internal is the same and the same size 1.6L (D16Z6) and I've rode in both of them and seen them race each other. Carl w/ the Vortech kicks my freinds turbo's ass...Think of it.. a supercharger is really good for bottom end torque...the turbo has to spool up...by the time the turbo is spooled up the supercharger is all ready had it's "boost" from the start...and even then after the turbo is spooled up...the VTEC on Carl's car is pushed him a little farther down the track. And even still...the turbo civic...has problems everyday of the week if he's not hauling balls...risking tickets...and wrecks and shit.
umm thats cause it probbly is an Ass sized turbine whats his A/R?
hell infact vortech ass supercharger is like a crappier turbo really. So he drives like an moron too yea thats his cars fault =/

Turbo makes more power and has less loss sorry its just a fact.

I'm not sure what size it is she said if its bad size she doesn't mind me selling it for a good one.

JR sucks btw thats a diff kind of supercharger long winded is fine just learn a bit more cause you really don't quite get it not to be rude but you sterotyped things that just arn't whats real.

when you talk bottom end of a s/c you much be using a jrsc cuz a centrifical charger (vortech) is basically just a compressor side of a turbo.


turbo's make more power there is no secret

when you talk bottom end of a s/c you much be using a jrsc cuz a centrifical charger (vortech) is basically just a compressor side of a turbo.


turbo's make more power there is no secret
and look at JRs graphs not too much low end =/

its a poor make a good roots blower would fucking RULE on a B16 nonstop screaming flat power think from 2-8K flat power

and look at JRs graphs not too much low end =/

its a poor make a good roots blower would fucking RULE on a B16 nonstop screaming flat power think from 2-8K flat power

there's no doubt it would be sweet but in the terms of peak power potenial the turbo will rule over a s/c. and with the right choice of a turbo you can make some pretty sweet power downlow.
my friend with his turbo rsx has full boost my 3000rpm, and pulls hard right to redline. its fucking sweet.

there's no doubt it would be sweet but in the terms of peak power potenial the turbo will rule over a s/c. and with the right choice of a turbo you can make some pretty sweet power downlow.
my friend with his turbo rsx has full boost my 3000rpm, and pulls hard right to redline. its fucking sweet.
oh i agree 100% i hope i didn't sound like i didn't turbos are a better powersystem. Its just i rather a flat power band the a higer power.

And with a good turbine you do that too. turbo Ks are damned amazing i would love to ride in one. i must say belt whine is sexier then a BOV but thats also just a preferance. I'll have a BOV soon

i perfer a bov over whine but its just my opinion. to each his own.
his turbo rsx is fucking sweet. even with only 290whp the car is ridicolus fast right from low rpm to 8000rpm.

Well, as Ace and jameskersten said, the Vortech is a centrifical s/c. Don't confuse a Roots type blower and a centrifical one. Centrifical s/c's are basically the turbrine side of a turbo connected to a step-up gear or belt driven drive. This type of supercharger tends to have no low end and create all it's power on the high end. This basically has the same result as "turbo lag." No real added power down low, then the power hits up higher in the rpm band. As has been said, a centrifical supercharger doesn't provide good power down low, it tends to make all it's power high in the rpm band, as I said above. This type of supercharger would have the same effect as a big turbo, basically creating "turbo lag." Remember though, the parastic loss on a turbo is pretty much non-existant also, it doesn't take much to spin the exhuast turbine. A supercharger, being belt driven, has noticable parasitic loss, like any belt driven assessory, like a/c, etc.

Now the Centrifical s/c, as I said, has no low end whatsoever. It is more like a shaft driven turbo, with a shaft attached to a step-up gearbox (or belt drive) replacing the exhaust side housing, and this in turn spinning a turbo-esque compressor. This type of s/c makes great peak power, but the low end is non-existent. These type of s/c's, even though they may be considered "more efficent" than a roots blower (Roots blowers are typically only in the 60% efficenacy range), tend to be "laggy" and ess responsive. Much like a gaint turbo, they basically suffer from "turbo lag," but without the power potentail output and boost levels of a comparable turbo. Like big a turbo, these s/c build boost slowly in proportion to engine speed and rpm. The closer to redline you get, the more boost and power. The power typically peaks at redline. These characteristics, though present in all turbos to a certian extent, are typically found more in the big turbos, when the greater lag is noticed and the turbo peaks at near redline (versus the smaller turbos where the lag is much less and it peaks sooner). Also, remember, the centrifical s/c is shaft driven. An exhuast driven turbo can re-route the exhuast into the wastegate once the turebo reaches peak boost. This can prevent compressor surge, and it keeps the boost @ the deisred level. One of the reasons centrifical s/c's hit peak boost at redline is they are shaft driven...unlike a turbo where exhuast gases can be re-routed, there is no way to disengage the turbine from the shaft when peak boost is reached. This means if peak boost is reached too soon, the turbrine compressor will contuine to spin and surge and create boost. Compressor surge, overboost, by by motor. This problem is solved through the step up gear or belt drive. This drive makes sure the s/c's power peaks @ redline. The result? As mentioned...good peak HP, no low end HP.

The low end you are speaking of is typical of a Roots blower, not a centrifical one like Vortech. The major benifit of the roots blower is the immediate and proportional response to the throttle: the blower is almost always pumping near the same volume of air. It has a very linear power curve, espically when compared to other turbo type s/c's like a centrifical s/c.

So when it all boils down to it, a centfical s/c is basically a shaft driven turbo in a sense. The nature of this s/c means it operates with different characterisitcs than a roots blower, and it does not give low end power. The belief that all s/c's give low-end power is a mis-informed myth. If you are looking into an s/c an low end grunt and a predictable linear power curve is desired, then a roots blower may be more up the ally than a centrifugal one, despite the fact it is "less efficent." If you want a s/c with a high top end, regardless of lack of low end, then a centrifical one is for you.

Even if you want low-end HP, you aren't limited to a roots blower. There are other ways to get low rpm hp besides roots blowers. The newer low-interia, low friction small turbos can spool up faster (good throttle response), resulting in more boost at a lower rpm than even a roots blower. With turbos, it's all about choosing the right sized turbo for your appilcation. Different sized turbos are ideal for different appications. If you take the time to learn, you can find the right sized/engineered turbo for your application, even if the application is low rpm boost.

turbo, plus you can listen to the sound of the blow off valve and be like hells yeah my car's fast

turbo, plus you can listen to the sound of the blow off valve and be like hells yeah my car's fast


Oy! :iagree:

stop bringing back dead threads.

turbo cuz u get more boost and cool sounds.. and u can say u have a turbo civic who wants to say they got a supercharged civic?

the problem with superchargers is that there are no intercooled ones for us. Yes vortech is a supercharger only because its belt driven it acts more like a turbo though so i will count it as a turbo in this thread. the jackson racing supercharger is not intercoolered and that keeps it from making big power. Intake temps(on the jrsc) can exceed 200 degrees because you can't intercool them (yes water injection is an avaiable but most will not use it). Now a twin screw supercharger would rock on our cars the problem is we rotate backwards compared to every one else. SO their are no kits to make the twinscrew work on the hondas (with the new k series i am sure you will see a twinscrew soon enough) So a twinscrew supercharger that was intercooler via water to air or top mount(yes placing the supercharger near the exhaust manifold may heat it up but still considered an option) would make a good amount of horsepoower and torque. You would have to make the supercharger rotate clockwise some sort of way.(thinking gears after the pulley to change direction of movment) So on our engines turbo is more likely to be a good bet. Just make sure to size it to your engine and needs

Personaly i am looking for only 200 to 220 at the wheels in the end. I have a d16z6 in my 90 crx hf. So i would get a small turbo something like a t25 or t28 intercooled(unless i think i can get it there with a supercharger) and lighten the body some (control arms, seats, crossmember, doors from an 88 hf they had the seat belts mounted in the car not on the door). This is just my 2 cents hope it helps out later

wow, first of all, the Vortech is a supercharger BECAUSE it is BELT DRIVEN. It is in no way a turbo except that fact that the compressor housing is engineered in a similar way.

Secondly, stop bringing back old threads. Where the hell are the mods we just got not only 3-4 months ago....

Secondly, stop bringing back old threads. Where the hell are the mods we just got not only 3-4 months ago....
:1:

Hahaha, Gene...you know the story on everything, come on now...LOL...

Alright, seriously though, I think everyone has had enough of this thread being brought back from the dead multiple times...Don't bring back dead thread, remember to read the rules!!!...Plus some of the bad info that is collecting in this thread is just plain sad...