my3rdskyline

New to photography and looking for a dSLR under 2 grand. What should I get and why?

I was thinking the EOS 20D

__________________

Neutrino

In the US it seems that the best deal by far is the Nikkon D70. It offers profesional level stuff at a decent price. The body costs 1000 USD but the best deal is to buy it with the acompaning Nikkor DX lens for an extra 200 USD(thal lens alone will cost over 400).

__________________

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

my3rdskyline

Have you read about or used a 20D? I was thinking... since I'm up to over a grand anyway I might as well just make it close to 2 grand. get a better camera and 8MP.... it will last longer too.... I've had a 2MP Nikon coolpix 2500 for 3 years.... i've out grown it to say the least... this is about the best you can do with it:

__________________

Neutrino

Sorry but I cannot give you an opinion on the 20D. I've studied only the D70 since i plan to buy one soon and it seems to fit best my finaces and my level of expertise.

I've talked to quite a few photographers and the all recomended the D70 without reserves.

However when I talk to them about Cannon there seems to be a rather dislike for their SLRs among many photographers.


Let me ask around about the 20D to see what they say.

PS. Astonishing picture, you guys get some amazing vistas in Japan.

__________________

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

my3rdskyline

I have heard the same about the digital rebel but never on any of there good cameras. This camera just came out a few weeks ago so I don't think very many people have experience with it....
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/
about that picture.... it's completely untouched. it's a shame I didn't take it at full resolution.

__________________

Neutrino

It seems like a good camera.

Lets take a look at some specs:

the Nikon uses a 6.24 megapixel CCD with a 23.7 x 15.6 mm size

the cannon uses a 8.2 megapixel CMOS size 22.5 x 15.0 mm

the nikkon's lower rezolution combined with the slighty bigger sensor should mean that it has larger sensor sites thefore each can capture more photons.

however looking at the specs it looks like the Cannon has a larger ISO range. Might be due to the differences between sensor tech.

shutter speeds seem to be identical and same goes for their selection.

the cannon seems also a bit faster with 5fps vs the nikkons 3fps which is surprising considering that this is normally a nikkon advantage

__________________

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

my3rdskyline

forgive me if this sounds horribly dumb because i've pretty uneducated about this but... i heard that CMOS sensors are less prone to dust problems than CCD's. and CCD's produce better quality images. But is there some new type of CMOS that is good in quality???? Basicly.... someone PLEASE school me. CMOS vs. CCD?

__________________

Neutrino

This article is pretty good at explaining that:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D30/D30A4.HTM

and I'm not the an expert myself just another computer geek that wants to play with digital photography.

__________________

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

my3rdskyline

Very interesting. I'm still not sure where to put my money.

__________________

Neutrino

BTW it seems that for 1599 you get a lens too with the 20D not just the body:

http://www.ritzcamera.com/webapp/wcs...atalogId=10001

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...s=19&c=us&l=en


And the D70 is 1199 after rebate with the lens.
http://www.ritzcamera.com/webapp/wcs...atalogId=10001


Now the question is are the extra specs like higher rez, faster motor and more iso range worth the 400$ difference?

In my case I would probably say no since at my level even the D70 has more features that i would know what to do with.

__________________

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

my3rdskyline

Reguardless of cost do you think the 20D is a better camera? My main concern is image quality. Speed is also a concern but the D70 seemed blazing fast to me so.... it's not really an issue at this level. Build quality is very imporant too. A metal body is a plus.

__________________

my3rdskyline

Do you think there will be a Nikon response to the 20D? and when? Another issue I'm concerned about is being stuck with a family of lenses. You get jailed in to one manufacturer. Why can't they make an SLR lens standard?

__________________

Moppie

Get the 20D.


There is no comparison between it the and the D70, its a totaly new generation, with not only more Mp and faster speed, also a MUCH greaty dynamic range (i.e. captures more light with out under or over exposing) and will produce noticalby less noise.

It is in every sense of the word a Proffesional camera, and any pro who claims the Nikon is better is simply displaying brand loyality prbobly because they have been shooting Nikon film cameras since they started.
(and Nikon make some VERY good pro SLR film cameras, but they are still a little behind with Digital).

Quite simply Canon are the market leader when it comes to Digital cameras, thier 1d series of Profesional SLRs are untouched by any other manufactor and the 20d and 300d (rebel) both came from the 1d family tree.

The 300d is an excellent beginners DSLR, and has an impressibe dynamic range and is very useable at even high ISO levels.
Unforunatly it lacks things like mirrior lock up and dosnt focus as quickly as the 20d.
There is a firmware hack which gives it mirror lock up and another higher ISO level, but it alters some of the menu functions.

The only problem with an SLR is you also have to buy lens, and good quality lens will cost you as much as the camera, several times more for the top quality proffesional stuff.

I know if I had $2,000 to spend I would get the 300d (rebel) and two fast lens, something in the 100-300 range and something in the 35-70 range, prehaps a 100-300 zoom and fixed 50mm.
Then I would get all the other little accesories you are going to need.

A neck strap, spare battery (at least one) and because you will now be shooting RAW and JPEG together at least one 1gb high speed CF card, preferable two.
And don't forget a high quality case or carry bad that fit all your lens's and extra gear.

After all of that I doubt there would be any change left over from $2,000.

__________________

Neutrino

Well as Mopiee said the 20D is a new generation camera so it should be better. But I was wondering the same thing: if Nikkon has an asnwer ready to it.

Btw one impression that I've got from the photographers was that they respect and aknowledge the features that Cannon's bring but they trust more Nikkor to be more "dependable". Something along the lines of Cannon being the bmw m5 full of gadgets and the Nikkon being the pure mechanical porsche GT3RS.


Also correct me if i'm wrong moppie but my impression was that Nikkon's lens mount is supported by many more 3rd party lens manufacturers than the cannon mounts. That would give you more lens options for the Nikkon.

__________________

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

Moppie

Im actualy not sure, I know you can get adaptors that allow most lens types to be used on most cameras (although you can lose things like autofocus and some of the tracking ablities on more expensive lens) but I do know that Canon makes some of the best lens avliable, and there are a variety of aftermarket manufactors who surport them. Sigma seems to be very popular.
The 20d and 300d also have whats called an EF-S mount, which accepts a new range of lens from canon which fit deeper into the body than a traditional SLR lens, and make up for the focal length multiplier effect you get from having a digital sensor that is smaller than 35mm film. I think the 300d has a 1.6x mulitiplier for the focal length when a tradional lens is used.
It also puts the end of the lens much much closer to the sensor, which aprently gives much sharper photos, I know the 50mm kit lens that come with the 300d is regarded as one of the sharpest lens avliable, despite being made of plastic and being quite cheap in construction.



And I can't see how having more control can ever be a bad thing, I frequent a very big canon forum, and there is hardly ever any mention of technical problems with any canon camera. The only ones that show up often are on cameras that have been used well beyong thier designed limits, like taking over 300,000 photos on a basic cheap point and shoot.

__________________