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Power Steering: Rumors Or Facts???


TriCkCiViC97
02-20-2002, 08:20 PM
I've been hearing from many that if you take out your power steering, your car gains 40 horsepower. I myself thought this was complete bs and others thought so as well. Is there anyone out there who really knows what the deal is with the power steering horsepower gains???:D

jOYRiDe
02-20-2002, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by TriCkCiViC97
I've been hearing from many that if you take out your power steering, your car gains 40 horsepower. I myself thought this was complete bs and others thought so as well. Is there anyone out there who really knows what the deal is with the power steering horsepower gains???:D
40hp? bwahahha it 'frees up' the hidden hp but not by that much!!!
remove a/c, p/s get an electric water pump....get some of those AEM under pullies and you've found i'd say 10-20hp (rough guess)

TriCkCiViC97
02-20-2002, 08:28 PM
yeah i knew i couldnt be 40 horsepower, is it a pain in the ass to drive w/o power steering?

jeisai
02-20-2002, 08:35 PM
I have a 97 dx coupe. yes it's a pain in the ass to drive without power steering.

Rice-Rocketeer
02-20-2002, 08:37 PM
It's totally different to drive a car that was designed for power steering and has been removed to driving a car that never had power streering. It's not worth it bro. And tell whoever told you that to stop trying to act like they know what they're talking about.

jOYRiDe
02-20-2002, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by jeisai
I have a 97 dx coupe. yes it's a pain in the ass to drive without power steering.

sucks to be you!! i guess u got bigger biceps then me though :hehehe:

Rice-Rocketeer
02-20-2002, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by jeisai
I have a 97 dx coupe. yes it's a pain in the ass to drive without power steering.

I happen to like the better road feel no ps gives me. Power steering gives you a filtered, artificial road feel.

Protek
02-20-2002, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer


I happen to like the better road feel no ps gives me. Power steering gives you a filtered, artificial road feel.


yea, but at least you can park your car without getting a hernia.

TriCkCiViC97
02-20-2002, 08:43 PM
okay...suppose i take out the p/s and the a/c. If i put in an electric water pump thats supposed to give more horse??? How much is one of those?

jeisai
02-20-2002, 08:46 PM
Ok, you make a good point, R-R. I do like the way it feels driving down the highway, but parking is a bitch. And making sharp little turns too.

Rice-Rocketeer
02-20-2002, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Protek
yea, but at least you can park your car without getting a hernia.

Dude, with the large civic steering wheel, turning the wheel at a dead stop takes no more than like 20lb/ft of torque. And no offense but if you can't do that or find it "hard", you need to start working out my friend. I'm not exactly hercules either. If you get a smaller "racing" steering wheel, yeah it could harder.

Besides the actual time that you spend "dry steering" is extremely small.

Originally posted by TriCkCiViC97
okay...suppose i take out the p/s and the a/c. If i put in an electric water pump thats supposed to give more horse??? How much is one of those?

Dude...concentrate on real power adders. Headers will give you much more power than any of the things your considering.

Rice-Rocketeer
02-20-2002, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by jeisai
Ok, you make a good point, R-R. I do like the way it feels driving down the highway, but parking is a bitch. And making sharp little turns too.

You need to learn to minimize "dry steering" as much as possible. It should become second nature and you don't even think about it. But if you were to need to turn the wheel completely back and forth 5 times in a dead stop, it could start being a pain in the ass, but why would ever do that?

jOYRiDe
02-20-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer


Dude...concentrate on real power adders. Headers will give you much more power than any of the things your considering.
yeah just get the basic mods first, i/h/e (Intake Header Exhaust)

jOYRiDe
02-20-2002, 08:59 PM
if u want, remove the a/c and p/s yourself (it costs nothing and u get more-SOME- hp)
electric water pumps in AUS are relatively cheap...about $AUS180-250
it should be cheap in the states...i suggest davies, craig pumps

oh but i think u need to buy an extra part for the pump and its the same price...dont quote me on that though

1995HondaCivic
02-20-2002, 08:59 PM
my car didnt come with powersteering, and it feels so much better with out it

Protek
02-20-2002, 09:21 PM
Yea, I had an 87 CRX SI that had no P/s I did like the way it felt and it wasnt to hard to turn but that was a CRX. Very tiny car by my standards. And it had the foam spoiler on it, Haa I loved that thing it was so funny.

shorthand
02-21-2002, 04:43 PM
Take a look at this article (http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:g6C4wKZQbLAC:www.importtuner.com/archives/tech/0701_tech01.jsp+civic+power+steering+header+hp&hl=en) from Import Tuner.

As you see, removing the p/s belt & the U-pipe under the air box combined to add 4hp and 3lb-ft of torque. This is ~ a 3% improvement on this engine.

When I've researched the emergence of electrical power-assist steering (EPAS 0 like the 2k1 JDM Civic) for my day job, it usually accounts for ~ a 1-1.5% improvment in fuel economy. Figure removing P/s entirely would account for around 2% - which is as much as a cat-back on a civic.

I agree that no power steering isn't really streetable. My question is how much difference does an AEM p/s pulley make? Does it cut the p/s power in half? How streetable is the car with the AEM pulley?

I think a 1% gain would be worth it if you can still park with relative ease. Any observations or tests? I really think that for the SOHC civics there may be good bang for buck in underdriving the power steering - that is as long as it doesn't cause any damage, but I can't see how dropping the P/S pressure would.)

(Don't worry about underdriving the alternator - the electrical system consumes a certain amount of power depending on the accessories you're running - you won't change that with a pulley, you'll just drop your voltage at idle and possibly overstress and ruin your alternator.)

Note: I'm going to fax AEM and see if I can get a dyno chart out of them, as they claim that they're available.

jOYRiDe
02-21-2002, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by shorthand

Note: I'm going to fax AEM and see if I can get a dyno chart out of them, as they claim that they're available.

cool post up the dyno sheets when u get them

CivicOwnage
02-21-2002, 11:36 PM
not 100% sure, but if you car has power steering and you remove it you can hert your raconpeering steering or whatever its called. Im not sure just something i heard

sparq
02-21-2002, 11:53 PM
Rene what are these people talking about? no p/s is hard? WTF? :confused:

Im so confused, I have no idea how you guys drive but I never STOP before I turn into a parking space ~ so I have no idea how you would come to the conclussion that parking would be hard... your car is still moving, all be it slower then normal... it is NOT HARD!

But really, if you find it "hard" to turn the wheel on any honda w/o power steering you have to be like 8 years old or something. Me and Rene are both skinny biatches and we got no problems whippin the cars around. :finger: :devil:

shorthand
02-22-2002, 12:19 AM
CivicOwnage:

I haven't actually looked and I don't have a Helms manual yet, but what you say might be possible.

There are two (really three) kinds of hydraulic power assist steering. The first has the hydraulic actuator on the steering column somewhere. The second actuates the rack itself.

If the Civic is of the second kind, it is conceivable that the rack & pinion isn't designed to take the load of manual steering over the long haul. It is also concievable that the system could wear or corrode if it sits at 0 pressure while being operated.

LjasonL
02-22-2002, 01:29 AM
i had a 93 civic hatchback with no power steering and i liked it, i kinda miss it. sure it sucks ass when turning the wheel while youre barely moving but how often do u do that? anything more than 5 mph and its not really hard at all, and actually quite fun over 15 or so.

jeisai
02-22-2002, 04:34 AM
I never said it was hard. I basically said it was an annoyance. I went from driving an 88 jeep cherokee with p/s to a civic with no p/s. I drove four years with p/s, and less than a year now without it - I'm still getting used to it. :p

madtownhonda
02-22-2002, 08:56 AM
I have a civic with and one without powersteering.....personally, I couldn't give a shit less if I have it or if I don't:D

VTEC_boi
02-22-2002, 09:50 AM
I'm the weakest kid on earth and I can drive w/o power steering...

I mean..if a 5'3" 100lb. Asian kid can do it anyone can :D

Also - w/o PS you have better handling at higher speeds. Since you won't jerk the car across the road (the PS makes the steering wheel a bit TOO sensitive)

VTEC_boi
02-22-2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by CivicOwnage
not 100% sure, but if you car has power steering and you remove it you can hert your raconpeering steering or whatever its called. Im not sure just something i heard

Rack and Pinion :D

CivicOwnage
02-22-2002, 02:10 PM
also have you guys driven with 17' rims? cause with stock rims no power steering is a sinch, but with 17' i couldnt make a u turn without using both hands and im strong so yeah no power steering is good for handling but shit when you have to switch gears and make big turns its not the best thing in the world.

LjasonL
02-22-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by VTEC_boi
Since you won't jerk the car across the road (the PS makes the steering wheel a bit TOO sensitive)

thats why u get a car with speed sensitive steering.:D
really though no power steering is a cinch in a civic.

cx-r
02-25-2002, 01:36 AM
i have a 00 hatch without ps and 205/45 tires. no problem turning the steering at all. as ricerocket.. said, if you can't do it, then check your pants for some missing parts. heheh... i like it way better without ps, more control and better feel of the road, plus about extra 4-5 ponnies.

Ryu
03-24-2002, 11:08 AM
I'm willing to spare some of my HP for some PS.
I've tried converting it before on my own. Failed, and now my 'GUNS' are huge. I may re-convert it again. But there are two wires that come with the whole unit that my original wiring harness doesn't support. One's black, one's red. I'm guessing it's just negative/positive wire. Anybody know what those two wires are?

dreemkill
03-25-2002, 01:26 AM
rack and pinion

Originally posted by CivicOwnage
not 100% sure, but if you car has power steering and you remove it you can hert your raconpeering steering or whatever its called. Im not sure just something i heard

brandonf
03-25-2002, 01:46 AM
you know what you should do. Let ur car's engine power the drive train itself and get an extra generator to power the p/s, a/c etc...

LjasonL
03-25-2002, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by brandonfang
you know what you should do. Let ur car's engine power the drive train itself and get an extra generator to power the p/s, a/c etc...

that seems like it would be so heavy it would make up for any power savings.

HondaCivic405
03-29-2002, 12:55 AM
that is true without p/s help out your engine by a lil becuz of that belt but youcan upgrade other stuff to even it out ... so i say if you have p/s stick with it man and if you dun like your a/c give it to me i take it !!!!



Honda-Freak
:flash:

naughty_WOOD
03-29-2002, 01:28 AM
Listen i think the only person who actually knows what they're talking about here is joy_ride, and here is my say in this

Keep the power steering your car was designed for it. pretty much the only time people take off the powersteering pulley is when you are drag racing and that's when every extra bit of power you can muster counts AND YOU ARE GOING IN A STRAIGHT LINE. look, all the big aftermarket companys make pulley kits that reduced the power loss by making a bigger better built pulley that is less parastic to the drive belt. expect to see somewhere around 5hp to the wheels, 12 tops.

Quetzolcotl
03-31-2002, 11:26 AM
about the electric water pump. i thought that they were only good for about 50000 miles at best. and if it malfunctions you are shit outta luck. i thought they were only conisdered in race applications. but they are supposed to free up about 2-3 hp.

NismoBoi34
02-15-2004, 09:00 PM
it must be hard to drive without p/s in the winter

B1SiR6A
02-15-2004, 09:44 PM
damn how far did you have to look to find this old ass thread

o0Quicksilver0o
02-16-2004, 07:17 PM
I drive a 98 dx and i do fine with it off. i am a little guy about 130pounds and not real strong. Steering at stand still is hard ....the way you get past that is let your wheels move a tad and steer then. i find this easy but i do feel a difference with it off ...very very slightly. but i decided to put it back on and you probly will too.

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