Howdy,
It seems this forum is a fair cross section of street racers that are racing right now. In your opinion, how fast is a truly fast street car, and where does a vehicle cross the line from being a race or street machine?

I have seen some crazy machines driven on the street, namely a blown alky tube car that ran low 9's, but that is rather extreme. It seems that a low 11 or mid 10 car would easily defeat almost any other competition, and it could be very or almost not at all streetable. It is obviously easier for a forced induction car to be more streetable than a N/A, and nitrous is an option. As a bottom line, I think a low 10's car is virtually undefeatable, and would also take 95% of sportbikes too.

While we are at it, what would be an agreed definition of a "race" or "nascar" motor? In my opinion, the motor would have these features:
1. Aluminum heads w/Ti valves, retainers, etc., either chevy sb 2.2, ford yates C3, or dodge P7.
2. Dry sump oil system
3. Single plane high rise intake, or the svo, bowtie, or mopar variety.
4. A shaft rocker system and exotic solid roller cam
5. Not run real well on the street and get about 5 mpg.
6. Major compression, 13:1 or higher.

For those of you wishing to build the ultimate car, I would recommend picking up cast off nascar parts from last year's motors. If you scrounge you can build a $20k motor for about $6k and trust me, it will make more horsepower than ANYTHING else. There are some compatibility issues and one of these motors is not simple to build, but the potential for 750+ N/A hp out of a 358 inch motor is there.

Here is a recipe:
1. Ford yates C3 heads, new DW Ti valves, Manley valvesprings, Ti retainers/lock, and professionally ported - $2500
2. Forged Venolia pistons $500
3. 351W Windsor Block, fully prepped $1000
4. Forged crank, stroke of choice, giving up to 427 ci $500
5. H-Beam rods, as long as possible $500
6. Miscallaneous (bad spelling) other stuff $1500

Equals giant horsepower, and when dropped into a pinto w/C4 and 4000 rpm converter means ultimate sleeper.

Race on.....

Anything faster than 13.2 is pretty darn fast in my book.
Anything in the low 12s will take a majority of the cars on the street.

If you are faster than low 12s and still race on the street, you have no respect for how much power you have (just my opinion).

For me to consider it a street car in my opinion they have to drive it everyday when the weather is nice. Drive it to work it needs to be your primary car. After meeting those requirements I think you need to be in the mid 12's and lower for me to consider it a really fast street car.

I agree with Hyde and GTStang, and want to add that it depends on who you ask.

As for a street car, I don't think you'll see any 9 sec. cars that are driven daily (which is my definition of a true "street car"). I mean you have to have some serious power to run 9 second 1/4s. I mean I'm not sure our race car is capable of 9 second 1/4s (4.30s in 330 ft, 1.40s 60 ft., have no other stats with the current engine), and there is no way it could be street driven.

As for my definition of a race engine: 4-bolt main block, steel crank and rods. High compression (12:1 and up), large valves, fully ported heads and intake, and some type of race ready carb.

Really fast street cars usually go 12.9 @ 105

Robert Schmitt
Oceanside, NY
'67 Chevy Chevelle
Average: 9.40 @ 141 mph

http://hotrod.com/eventcoverage/113_pgd_07_l.jpg

Next question?

I would say anything 10s and under would be for the track as long as it is American. NO RICE! As far as the streets go my truck stock will take most of the rice boys around my way and thats about mid to low 13s.

there is a BIG difference between a streetcar, a "streetcar", and a race car.

a FAST streetcar is something that you can get rubber in the first 2 gears in, and will push you back in the seat. i would only consider a car in this category to be something you'd be willing to drive every day (or whatever amount you'd drive your daily)

a "streetcar" is something that is FAST, you've made it that way for a reason. not something to be driven every day (like jekyl)...

then u have racecars; you don't want to drive on the street. and... yeah, FAST :)

i don't agree that a 1/4 mile time can tell you how fast a car really is... it takes more than that.

and jeff the "If you are faster than low 12s and still race on the street, you have no respect for how much power you have (just my opinion)." thing... i'd only agree on that if you meant "race" in the sence of an all out display of speed.

You're not a real streetcar unless you still have A/C (exceptions for cars that didn't come with it or areas that don't need it), can safely drive in the rain, can go on a long cruise, can fill up at the pump, can idle without dying or overheating, etc...

I would say anything 10s and under would be for the track as long as it is American. NO RICE! As far as the streets go my truck stock will take most of the rice boys around my way and thats about mid to low 13s.


Crap I guess i'll have to tell the guys with Enzos and Carrerra GTs that they drive slow rice boy cars with all that carbon fiber and big deployable wings. I mean since they are not american...right :rolleyes:

You're not a real streetcar unless you still have A/C (exceptions for cars that didn't come with it or areas that don't need it), can safely drive in the rain, can go on a long cruise, can fill up at the pump, can idle without dying or overheating, etc...

I know your a Moderator, but I Beg to differ... Because I dont have A/C at the moment, the T3/T4 Hyrbid Took its place for a while. Until I get the money for custom A/C lines im shit out of luck. Alot of street racers live and die for the runs. Living paycheck to paycheck to make there ride sweeter and faster than the next. Thats not everything and that surley isnt the only type of street racer. Oh yeah most street racers dont have to take there car to the shop. To be honest you cant really define a street racer, because a street racer just is...

I've got a question...if you've got a daily-driven street car that's running in the 11's and 12's, isn't it probably gonna be non-street legal (mainly in the emissions department), thus defeating the purpose of it being a street car? Or you can actually get most cars that fast without failing emissions?

you should be able to, unless you have completly removed the cat. which tends to give people problems when testing

I would say anything 10s and under would be for the track as long as it is American. NO RICE! As far as the streets go my truck stock will take most of the rice boys around my way and thats about mid to low 13s.

Ah, so imports running 10 and below aren't fast, but american cars are? And imports running low 13's aren't fast for street cars, but American cars doing the same are?

Use your brain much?

the lingenvette is a 9 sec car, and its as streetable as a z06...

and i would say that a 10 sec compact is pretty damn fast...

Hyde hit the nail on the head.

Once you start talking 11s and faster for a street car, than I'm thinking serious speeds.

If anybody has read the september issue of Sport Compact Car, the supra in there is pretty badass. 991whp and 805lb-ft at 39psi(2.7Bar) of boost. It runs 9.7@150. I not sure wheter to believe this or not. But from what they say, it is driven quite often on the street

when you start hitting anything lower then 13's your moving pretty quick.

A fast streetcar is something driven daily and for any purposes and that can hit 13's.

Where I live. 14-15 is usually "fast"....but 13's is fast enough in my books

I personaly think a fast street car is around 11 secs. That can be drivin on a 500 mile trip with out overheating can run on pump gas (93 oct.) octane(sp) booster counts if your just running more boost for that day, runs on street legal tires, can be controlled and not a problem to cruise at the speed limit. it doesnt have to have a/c in my book and can be drivin on a nice day. o also that you wouldnt mind driving to work every day you dont have to but you would do it. one of my buddys dads has a stock ws6 firebird but doesnt drive it more than once a week b/c its his baby and he only takes it out for crusie's.

If any of you read the article in mm&ff mag about new york street racing and the cars that come in on trailers i do not count that as a streetcar. just my

Hell, i gotta a 15.1 second car and i beat mostly anything i run. Turbo eclipses, built Si's, built 'Stangs, ect. Why? They cant drive. Its the death of them. They take off spinning and missing gears. Having a fast streetable car is NOTHING without being able to drive it. And i think EVERYBDOY can agree with me on that.

I agree. Having a car that you can't drive sucks.



ok ok, can we all agree that a fast street car consists of a motor vehicule that is:
1.street legal in most provinces/states
2.can beat 80% of the cars in your area

the lingenvette is a 9 sec car, and its as streetable as a z06...

Actually the C5 is an 8 sec car since it ran a 8.95. I also have heard that it drives pretty much like a zo6. That is the beauty of turbos. I feel bad for anyone that made the mistake of flooring it going down the street. Can't wait for them to fix up the new zo6.
I agree. Having a car that you can't drive sucks.



ok ok, can we all agree that a fast street car consists of a motor vehicule that is:
1.street legal in most provinces/states
2.can beat 80% of the cars in your area
around here it would have to beat 99% of the cars in my area (wyoming) My stock manual accord beats up on 95% of the cars around here and it is in no way shape or form fast. I do however enjoy having more tq than hp, not too many 4 cyl owners can say that.

they got it down to 8.95? thats beast, last time i looked at the lingenvette it was a low 9.

also, it stands to reason that there is a difference between driving a car on the street and being street legal (talking about the 990 hp supra)...

If you want to debate a true "Street legal" car, that would eliminate a large majority of the cars we are talking about.

As soon as you change intake manifolds, cats, the EGR system or even vent the PCV you are not legal to drive in the U.S. regardless of what your particular state says.

**side note, there is a local fellow with a 70's Vette that is inspected and registered that clocks high 7s.

Let's be honest, asking "How fast is a really fast street car?" is a lot like asking how ugly is too ugly to date? It's up the individual, their own preferences and expereince.

If you dont look anything other than a woman, your considered ugly

**side note, there is a local fellow with a 70's Vette that is inspected and registered that clocks high 7s.

That reminds me, how old does your car have to be before it doesn't have to pass emissions? Because I'm sure you could get an old muscle car below 10's without breaking a sweat.

"Passing" emmissions is something that is different in each state.

Removing emmissions equipment is against federal law.

Here in Canada, only Ontario has this "Drive Clean" program for cars that are 15 years or younger. All other cars do not need to take the test

they got it down to 8.95? thats beast, last time i looked at the lingenvette it was a low 9.

also, it stands to reason that there is a difference between driving a car on the street and being street legal (talking about the 990 hp supra)...
here it is: http://lingenfelter.com/images/CF427TT_eprint.pdf

here it is: http://lingenfelter.com/images/CF427TT_eprint.pdf
Notice the cover says "street driven" ... not "street legal" ;)

Ah, but notice that the third page says completely street legal ;)

If you have turbos or a S/C the times you talk about must be with the amount of boost you run on the street and pump gas. None of this I drive it on the street all the time at 14psi and pump gas but when I get to the track I use my boost controller/change pulley and run 25psi with 120 octane race fuel to run 9's BS either. (IMO)

I agree, it would be pointless to have a car running nines on the street anyway. Unless a top fuel dragster happened along.

I agree, it would be pointless to have a car running nines on the street anyway. Unless a top fuel dragster happened along.

...and you'd still get your ass handed to you by a few seconds and over a hundred mph...

The goal for my car is mid-high 10s on pump gas, high 9s to low 10s in 'race mode'. With a 3150lb car(wet), thats roughly 500hp at the wheels for 'street mode'. to break into 9s, thats around 650hp to the wheels. So I'm shootin for 600flywheel-hp in 'street mode' and 800flywheel-hp in 'race mode'. Race mode consists of more boost and higher octane gas, and slicks. Hopefully the motor will be done in a month, then I can spend the winter finishing the rest of the car, and be ready to race come spring. This is a street driven '69 stang, not a trailer queen. Turbos are the way to go for a streetable car that really moves when told to.

two words....high maintenance biotch.....ok, make that three then

500 hp and a 3150 lb car... for 10 second runs in the quarter? yet the Ford GT only does it in 12.2...

The Ford GT isnt set up for drag racing and its more than 3150lbs according to Ford. I think its somewhere around 3400, dry. With a bit of fuel(enough to get you down the track) and a light driver(160lbs, thats what I weigh), you're around 3575lbs. Also Ford's HP readings are for flywheel-hp, so its probably putting 450-475hp to the wheels(if the 550hp is correct, some people report its more than that). So you've got a car not set up for drag racing with 475rwhp and weighing 3575lbs wet vs a drag car with 500rwhp and weighing 3150lbs wet... Not trying to be a dick, but yeah, 500rwhp in a 3150lb car set up for drag racing should get you into 10s. High 10s, like 10.8-10.99. But 10s none the less.

3390 curb test weight w/ 550hp

and numbers look great on paper, i just think they'd be a bit higher

quick question, what does "wet" mean, like full tank of gas?

"With a 3150lb car(wet)"

I think a fast car street car is either a) anything faster than a corvette or b) anything faster than a 13 second 1/4 mile. No one will tell you a corvette is slow. No one. Well, at least not anyone with half a brain.

And a "street car" is a car that's comfortable to commute in, can be used year round in whatever region it resides in, runs well off pump gass, idles semi-smoothly, has most of its interior still in place, is reliable enough to trust with multiple-day drives, etc, etc, etc.

That depends on what year corvette your talking about. I think the Mustang GT is used more often as the barrier between not fast and fast. It runs 14 flat which is a number that is generally only reached or beaten by decently fast sports cars. Frankly I think the standards are different depending on the car at hand. If you have a camaro or mustang, your fast if your in low 13s or the 12s, but i would consider a a sport compact fast if it broke below the 14 second mark.

In my opinion, anything in the 15's or lower is quick. Anything in the 13's or lower is fast. Anything in the 11's or lower is supercar.

I hate how everyone throws the word "supercar" around. It used to mean something, most cars that run in 11's or lower has lost its balance and ability to handle.

The Ford GT isnt set up for drag racing and its more than 3150lbs according to Ford. I think its somewhere around 3400, dry. With a bit of fuel(enough to get you down the track) and a light driver(160lbs, thats what I weigh), you're around 3575lbs. Also Ford's HP readings are for fwhp, so its probably putting 450-475hp to the wheels(if the 550hp is correct, some people report its more than that). So you've got a car not set up for drag racing with 475rwhp and weighing 3575lbs wet vs a drag car with 500rwhp and weighing 3150lbs wet... Not trying to be a dick, but yeah, 500rwhp in a 3150lb car set up for drag racing should get you into 10s. High 10s, like 10.8-10.99. But 10s none the less.

Dear duplox,

Please stop saying "fwhp" unless you're talking about Front Wheel Horse Power. I sit here and think "Mustang... front wheel horse power... WTH?". Then I think for several minutes before I decide you must mean FlyWheel Horse power.

Thank you.
Jason

Dear duplox,

Please stop saying "fwhp" unless you're talking about Front Wheel Horse Power. I sit here and think "Mustang... front wheel horse power... WTH?". Then I think for several minutes before I decide you must mean FlyWheel Horse power.

Thank you.
Jason

No problem, it confuses me too, in a perfect world there would be different acronyms for "front wheel horsepower" and "flywheel horse power". But its not, so there isn't, and I'm lazy. Next time I'll write it out. In fact, since you put it so nicely, I'll go back and change it.


Oh, and 'wet' means what your car weighs at the starting line. This includes any and everything - coolant, fuel, you, your clothes/helmet, fire extinguishers, etc. Dry is the opposite.

I think the line for a street car is incredibly high maintenence (every 500 miles or so), very poor gas mileage (5mpg) or requiring race gas, and exotic components like a lenco 5-spd, 6000 rpm stall converter, or mechanical alcohol injection.

Other criteria, particularly power accesories and A/C, are of little concern especially if the vehicle in question didn't come with them.

Here is a great proposition - I think the ultimate street car is the 3-G machine, capable of pulling a full G on braking, skidpad, and acceleration. That is supercar status, and if it gets 20+ mpg, you have perhaps created the ultimate street car.

If you can live with driving a car on the street, more power to you. And, if you can live 10 mpg (pump gas) on the freeway, idling at 1200 rpm, and having a grabby, chattery clutch, more power to you. Personally, I am looking forward to driving my "hot" '78 Fairmont complete with a 500+ hp full roller N/A small block and 4-spd manual on the street, and even to work on a regular basis if gas prices don't go up any more. It will require occasionally lash and valvespring checks for the solid roller valvetrain and probably get 8-10 mpg city/14 freeway, but that is fine by me. And with a predicted weight of 2500 lbs all up it is very fast - a truly fast street car. Try and work out the 1/4 times for a vehicle like that, and try adding a 150 hp shot of juice to speed things a bit. If you can't build more engine power always go for reduced weight.

Lastly, I don't think a truly fast street car can be bought off the lot, unless you are talking about a 390 hp Cobra or the Dodge Hemi Super stocks of old. Even then, the fastest will always belong to those who craft and conceive their machines themselves.

Race on....

Crap I guess i'll have to tell the guys with Enzos and Carrerra GTs that they drive slow rice boy cars with all that carbon fiber and big deployable wings. I mean since they are not american...right :rolleyes:

I didn't know Italy or Europe for that matter were big in the RICE industry. When I say RICE I mean Jap ie. your civic with the cardboard fiber kit and the 30ft 747 airplane wing on the back. When a Ferrari rolls out of Japan then you can tell a Ferrari owner he is a RICEBOY! rollseyes

Ah, so imports running 10 and below aren't fast, but american cars are? And imports running low 13's aren't fast for street cars, but American cars doing the same are?

Use your brain much?

No RICE doesn't belong at the track 10s or not and I said stock my truck runs 13s there aren't to many RICE cars that come out of the factory running low 13s.

:gives:

No problem, it confuses me too, in a perfect world there would be different acronyms for "front wheel horsepower" and "flywheel horse power".

I just use bhp (brake horsepower). I've only heard this used by the British, and I live in America, but whatever. :)

Good point. I'm used to writing on a forum about old ford v8s, so no one confuses flywheel hp with front wheel hp.

Where i live, fast is 300-400hp w/ 13s attainable, most of us that jack around every weekend racing run 15s , there isn't much competition around and unfortunately, i'm third in my general class around here behind a prelude (dunno haven't raced him) and a GS-T (get him off the line til 3rd) besides that a 240 is 4th and everything else that wants to run so here
Here:13s are fast
14s and 15s dominate most around town in general

No problem, it confuses me too, in a perfect world there would be different acronyms for "front wheel horsepower" and "flywheel horse power".


Try, crank hp or hp at the crank thats what i use to be less confusing

Where i live, fast is 300-400hp w/ 13s attainable,
How heavy are the cars where you live?

300-400 HP is easy 12s .... if not low 11s with good driving for a typical 2800-3200 lbs car.

If anybody has read the september issue of Sport Compact Car, the supra in there is pretty badass. 991whp and 805lb-ft at 39psi(2.7Bar) of boost. It runs 9.7@150. I not sure wheter to believe this or not. But from what they say, it is driven quite often on the street

It's clone is for sale: http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=161600561&dealer_id=&car_year=1995&make=TOYOTA&distance=100&max_price=&model=SUPRA&end_year=2005&advcd_on=n&min_price=&address=85017&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1993&color=&cardist=100

At a huge bargain, I might add, for what you're getting.

I've seen that car in the mag run a few mid 9-second passes personally, and this car is it's (almost) double, built by the same people.

I've got a question...if you've got a daily-driven street car that's running in the 11's and 12's, isn't it probably gonna be non-street legal (mainly in the emissions department), thus defeating the purpose of it being a street car? Or you can actually get most cars that fast without failing emissions?

my car will hit 12's with all the emissions connected and ac and it didn't take much to get tit thier

the lingenvette is a 9 sec car, and its as streetable as a z06...

i thaught the new ones were in the 8's
and have all emissions full weight with a stereo and ac