How good is the engine?

porsche911 · 12-17-2000, 05:12 PM

Does anybody know how many horses can be pumped out of the mighty MKIV's 3.0 TT engine? Is it close to 1000hp?

nospower2001 · 12-18-2000, 03:17 AM

i think you can. ive heard of one that cranked out a little over a 100o horse, but i have no clue what was done to it. a couple of my friends have supras and they are puttin out a little over 600 rwhp. you can do alot to them, it can be expensive though too. just depends on what you want to do i guess.

igor@af · 12-18-2000, 10:27 AM

Japanese engines are the BEST!!
Skyline GT-R, Mitsubishi GTO [known as 3000GT outside Japan], Toyota Supra, and the Mazda RX-7 all have great engines.

nospower2001 · 12-19-2000, 06:41 AM

they are all kickass. i read some were that on the skyline gt-r motors with out doing anything to the bottom end or pistons, that they are built to with stand 1000+ horses, if only they werent so much to get imported to the u.s. i know theres a place out in california that imports them, but its still gonna cost ya about 50000 dollars minimum to get a old one.

igor@af · 12-19-2000, 10:34 AM

I think that all of the cars I mentioned above have engines that can withstand very high-pressure and can pump out around 1000hp at the least, but GT-R is probably the only one that can go w~a~y over 1000hp.
But think about RX-7's rotary 1.3L, it can go pretty close to 1000hp. that's only 1.3 liters!!!!! Rotary engines are a great technology.

racer x · 12-20-2000, 02:54 AM

of those in this group the skyline & RX7 motors are the WEAKEST. the skyline is an OPEN-DECK cylinder design, not known for strength... if ya know what I mean.

the RX7? well it blows, literally. the wankel in theory is a great design but in reality is a manufacturing/maintenance NIGHTMARE. hell GM made a wankel powered vette & even Mercedes experimented w/wankel motors... but u don't those cars around today, eh? the wankel is responsible for nearly putting Mazda outta business, until Ford saved them that is... Mazda spent so much $$$$ trying to solve the problems of the wankel:hi-noise, bad emissions, bad fuel economy, compression sealing, etc.

the supra, vr4 & 300ZX blocks are pretty strong because they are SOLID IRON blocks. hint: iron blocks are way STRONGER then aluminum blocks, period. the supra motor is known to support 600-800 RWHP on STOCK internals. a skyline motor will NOT do this w/o building the bottom end (or else, KA-BOOM!!!).

in stock trim the supra motor has proven to be one of the most under-rated of the group. the 300ZX & VR4 motors are also very strong but few seem to want to push those to their limits, so we don't know what they are capable of.

Edited by: racer x

igor@af · 12-20-2000, 09:57 AM

hmmmm..
racer x,
never heard of any of this.
Looks like you know a lot about engines!
How do you know it? Do you modify engines?
BTW, I did forget 300ZX's VG30DETT. It's an amzing engine.
But I really did think that GT-R had the strongest engine.

racer x · 12-20-2000, 08:07 PM

let's just say that I have 1st hand experience on some of those cars.

open deck designs are easier to manufacture & cool but they decrease cylinder wall strength, obviously.

but I hope I'm not taking anything away fr the skyline, it's showcase is the AWD system. longitudinal engined AWD layouts (like skyline) are inherently SUPERIOR to transverse engined AWD (like the GTO, evo).

eh, later.

igor@af · 12-20-2000, 08:09 PM

ok,
let's put it this way:
I'm dying to know what you do for living!
is it street racing?

kepone · 02-08-2001, 09:42 PM

ok.. heres the dilly

of those, the supra tt's engine is the strongest.. it can handle up to around 700 crank hp with totally stock internals.. and it doesnt take anything more than a few bolt ons ( head gasket, head studs, lower compression/harder pistons, and good rings ) to make it good for 800-900hp.. something like a JUN 3.3 liter stroker kit will make the engine good for well over 1000hp.

the vr4's engine can handle about 500hp in stock form, and thats pushing it.. while i do like the vr4 better than the supra, this is the simple truth. the engine cant handle very much boost in stock form, but it can be a monster if you mod the engine right ( je pistons, crower rods, ported head with 3 angle valve job, ported intake manifold, aluminium intake y pipe etc etc ).. and ECu work is very important for tuning a vr4's engine.. id go into more detail, but ill wait till someone wants details here

the rx7's engine ( and by that i mean the 13b, not the 20b or any other rotary ) can make absolutely insane amounts of power, but modding it is like playing with fire.. you're gonna get burned eventually. basically, if you mod a tt rx7, expect problems, and expect an empty wallet. would that stop me from owning an rx7? hell no, i love that car to death..

i gotta say though, the wankel/rotary engine had nothing to do with madza's massive losses before ford picked them up. if they perfrct the rotary ( take a look at the rx-8/rx-evolv).. it can make massive power, be reliable, and be good emmissions wise.. if you havent heard the rx evolv's specs, well, its based on the 20b ( 3 rotor ) cosmo engine.. its NA, and puts out 280hp@10,000 rpm.. its coming to america baby.. btw, do the math.. the 20b is a 1.3 liter i believe.. can you think of any other 1.3 liter NA engine that makes 280hp? i didnt think so, and thats why the wankel design is awesome.. once again, id go into more detail, but ive made my point..

ok, on to this iron vs aluminium thing..

ok.. lets see here, aluminium is just as hard as iron

aluminium resists warping more than any other metal ( besides titanium )

aluminium is lighter than iron

aluminium dissipates heat better than iron

need i say more? an aluminium engine is every bit as good if not better than a cast iron engine block. the only reason that more manufacturers dont use aluminium is ebcause its hideously expensive to work with.. it resists being molded like a sonofabitch.. anyway, to conclude this point, whoever told you than aluminium engines arent as strong as iron engines was plain wrong..

the 300z tt's engine is pretty good, but very poorly manufactured.. the head castings left casting flash everywhere, and in general, stock 300zxtt engines will grenade around the 500hp mark if left internally stock ( and i do mean blow up ).. but, other than that, all i can say for the 300z is that they have always made poor drag cars for some reason that ill never understand, a supra tt is generally faster ( on the 1/4 mile ) with 400rwhp than a 300z with 550rwhp will be.. why? i dunno.. must be a suspension issue i guess.. some people say its because of wheelhop, but the supra tt has massive off thw line wheelhop too.. so that cant be it..

as for the gtr's engine, the fact that its an open deck design means dick, the engines are strong as hell.. and the cars make brutal 1/4 mile performers.. you're right though, the gtr's showcase is its awd system..very amazing system with adjustable torque bias and all that with the computer controlled center diff and all that..i still think audi's quattro system is better, but thats just me

anyway.. have i said enough? lol

if anyone wants more info, just ask

Umair · 03-05-2001, 10:19 PM

Hey Guys,
this is only my third post but I thought I would share a few things... sorry if this gets a bit boring...
A few corrections..
Aluminum is not more expensive to work with as Iron. Aluminum is now actually cheaper to produce ($2/kg and less)and is fairly in expensive to work with depending on which dopants are used to create the particular alloy. It is not as hard to cast as you would thing. Doping it with a number of alloys allows it to be formed a lot more easily than what was once suspected. Aluminum also does not rust because it reduces almost anything it comes in contact with. The first thing it comes in contact with is air which allows it to form Alumina (Al2O3) which forms a clear protective layer making it impossible for oxidation to occur. Thats cool. An automatic invisible protective layer by just using the atmosphere. No rust ever.

I think I may be confused as to what you mean by "warping". The way I see it neither cast iron or aluminum alloy warps. Regular iron can "warp" but regular iron is not used in engines. The iron is combined with carbon, manganese, nickel, chromium, vanadium, and tungsten to produce various kinds of cast iron. After this the iron becomes brittle instead of malleable... so it will crack before it warps unless you got a bad batch of iron. The only way it will warp is if it approaches or actually surpasses its melting point... Regular Iron melts at roughly 1540 degrees Celsius and the melting point of cast iron depends on the dopants added but I think the low end is 1015 degrees with 4% Carbon added (normal is about 2%-2.5% I think... correct me if I'm wrong)... which is kind of a high temp. Don't you love chemistry?

Ok.. I'm gonna start losing people if I go anymore with this.
Aluminum is awesome.
You are going to start seeing more and more aluminum alloy engines....along with an increase in ceramic parts (turbocharger turbines, valves, etc).

I am a materials engineer and I work for ALCOA (Aluminum Company of America). They pretty much have a monopoly on most of the world's aluminum. I saw the framework of the Ferrari Modena being built in the Pittsburgh R&D center. Cool stuff. But now I work in the Fiber Optics Division so we don't get much car stuff anymore. My degree is in Ceramic Materials Engineering in case anyone is wondering.

Oh and the Wankel engine... please post a link about the engine you were talking about because I have only seen rotary's with problems... i think its a cool idea but I thought that Mazda was having a bad time with it. I looked to see if there was any info on ones that are working out but could not find any info... thanks.

-Umair

SupraDex · 04-14-2001, 09:03 PM

Guys,

Stop arguing and hit supraforums.com. We'll show you how to build a 1200 hp Dawg with a bulletproof engine.

GTFOURDREAMS · 05-09-2001, 01:02 AM

racer X knows what he's talking about. if you seen the open deck design of some of the aluminum engines, you'd know why they cant hold hp. its the same design that honda uses in their engines which cannot hold boost for shit. here's a picture of it. you can see that there is a open channel between the rest of the block and the cylinder walls. from what ive heard it allows water through and helps cooling down the engine, but it also has a great weakness in that itll break down.

"See the "open" space around the cylinders? That water passage helps cool the cylinders under high rpm runs. But it also creates a weak area on the top of the cylinders, which are prone to crack if subjected to severe detonation" thats what a honda tuner told me about them. (i dont work on hondas.. so i wouldnt know, but he does)

about the alumium and iron thing, i think iron is stronger than alumium. but alloys are different, with a mix of things you can get metals a lot stronger than they originally were. im not a chemist either so im going to trust the chemist in here. sure aluminum is cheaper, but ive seen toyota iron blocks outlast honda aluminum blocks, so ill stick with iron.

GTFOURDREAMS · 05-09-2001, 01:08 AM

oh yea, another thing. if you just want to see how much the stock internals and block can hold, i would strongly advise NOT to go against the supra engine (2JZG). toyota's engines are modifieid very mildy from factory and holds a lot of potential. (the engine i have, 3SGTE 2.0L 4banger can push at least 600-800 with an unmodified block)

majesty · 08-04-2001, 11:56 AM

i wanna know more....please elaborate upon the supra tt if you can, i am purchasing one soon and i would like to know more as i do not know much on engines. nor the specific details.

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