I've been thinking about buying a WRX, due not only to its performance, but to its great crash test scores, four doors, and bulletproof reliability. Now, my parents could more than likely afford to get me an STi instead, but I dunno if it would be worth it. I've only been driving for half a year, I have little experience with performance vehicles, and I'm not very good with manual transmission yet. I'm afraid that the STi would be too difficult or dangerous for an inexperienced person like myself to drive.

I have a couple questions: is the STi just as safe and reliable as the WRX? And do you think it would be better for me to just get the cheaper WRX to improve my clutch-driving skills and learn how to handle a performance vehicle, or pay the premium for the STi and probably enjoy it much more later on?

Thanks a bunch.

Who's gonna pay for the insurance?

I went out to a junkyard once to buy parts off of a wrecked 2004 WRX. Turns out when i got there that the car was completely totaled. It took me 15 mins of looking for the car while it was infront of me to find it. The car apperenlty had been bought 4 days prior to it arriving at the junkyard. It had less than 4,000 miles on it and no dirt what so ever on the filter. The car had been doing 120 down a local road, lost control and wrecked into a telephone pole and literaly wrapped itself around it. The driver and passenger survived. I honestly wouldnt give a performance car to an unexperienced driver but if there was any choice of which i would give if i had to, it would be the wrx or the sti.

jay: My parents are probably gonna pay the insurance, but if the WRX is significantly lower than the STi, I'd definitely take that into account.

ragnarok: Well, I want to learn how to handle a performance vehicle, and yeah, the WRX/STi seem like the best choices to learn on. I just don't know if it will be a waste for me to get the STi over the WRX, since I won't be able to fully unlock either car's potential until I have more experience.

Don't even think about an STi. With your experience, you'll have a hard time with the Rex. If I were you, I would get a 2.5. Learn how to drive an AWD car with a good amount of power. Seems if your parents are paying for your car AND insureance(lucky s.o.b.) they wouldn't mind helping you trade in the 2.5 in a year or so for a Rex when you're ready for it. Plain and simple, if you were my kid and I knew what I knew about the WRX, you would be driving a 2.5. You have plenty of time in your life to get a fast sports car. Spend a while getting experience.

That, or I can engine swap an STi 2.5 into the 2.5 RS later, when I'm ready...

You would have to be pretty mechanically inclined. The wire harness alone takes professionals a couple of weeks to figure out. You would need a whole new drivetrain, computer, turbo, intercooler, etc... You would probably be better off just trading it in later down the road.

Well, I'd rather save some money (I'm not mega-rich like you think) and just get the WRX. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it driving it normally; I'm not nearly as stupid as most 17-year-olds, who try to pull shit that they know they can't handle, at the risk of not lookin' cool if they back down. I want to learn how to drive a performance vehicle, and the WRX just seems like the best choice for someone newer to driving.

get the rs until you learn to drive better sounds lioke your parents have money so you can just put a few mods on it and be good to go but if i think back to 17 id want the wrx/sti too. but if i had something like that i wouldn't be writting this now. too much power for you

Well, I am a really careful and attentive driver, and I'm not gonna race in a WRX before I know how to drive it well. I'm not a ricer or anything, I just a safe, reliable car that also has some performance potential so that I can train myself.

BTW, my 96 V6 Camry, which weighs about the same as a 2.5 RS according to www.edmunds.com (http://www.edmunds.com), makes more power than the 2.5 RS. Granted, the Camry is FWD, but I know what 200+ torque feels like.

Well i would have to saw get the WRX. No need to get the STi. And IMO the WRX looks better than the STi anyway.
The EJ20 is not hard to get the power out of. 400whp is not uncommon. The only real weak point to the cars is the tranny. They dont take to much punishment. (Very bad thing if you are a new driver learning how to drive an AWD manual tranny car).

But to learn out i would deffinetly start with the 2.5RS. And then build up the skills required to get the driving portion down, then work on the power part.

Fk that get the STi dude, or get a WRX and see if u sell that in a year if ur parents would get you an STi, that would be cool to, get the WRX over the 2.5rs for sure.

man you guys must be loaded..

"get the rs...then get the wrx...then get the sti"

dude, if youre gonna eventually go big, get the sti, and save yourself alot of cash.

my advice, just dont have a lead foot and be careful when driving.

the sti is a great car, but you dont need to be an expert racecar driver just to drive it.

I don't really want to get an STi, because the insurance is going to be RIDICULOUSLY high, and I am gonna have a hard time driving it even at low speeds.

The WRX looks really nice, but I've heard that it's not the smoothest shifter in the world, and the clutch isn't all that easy to use.

Taking into account the fact that I'm new to manual, I'm probably just gonna get a used Integra or something (Hondas are extremely easy to shift I've heard), and once I get the hang of stick shift driving, I'll move up to the WRX, or maybe even the STi. :)

And I don't really want the 2.5 RS, because it's kind of stupid to buy that and not pay just a few thousand more for the WRX. Unlike what you guys seem to think, I am not made out of money, and I'd rather not waste it buying lower models first and then trading up for newer ones. Besides, all I really want to do at this point is get the hang of manual tranny driving in a car that won't break very easily if I mess up a lot. Hondas are ultra-reliable and easy to drive, and I can get them used cheap.

Don't worry, I'm not going to turn into a ricer; I'd kill myself before I did that. :smokin: But at the point I'm at right now, I wouldn't even be able to test drive a manual WRX, because there's a decent chance I'd misshift and stress the engine, or stall out the car in the middle of traffic or something. I just need to take things slow; better safe than sorry.

Thanks for all your help. I guess the STi will remain a dream car for a few more years, as it probably should. But at least when I finally do get it, it will be ten times more enjoyable :sunglasse

dang, an intega, then a wrx..you got so much $$ man...

you want smooth shifting? nissan sentra se-r...smoother than any integra or rsx youll find. plus its a decent car for an ff and is pretty quick too. good prices for used se-r's too

And I don't really want the 2.5 RS, because it's kind of stupid to buy that and not pay just a few thousand more for the WRX.

:eek: :banhim:

I'm not super-rich. Older Integras are pretty cheap used. I don't need a fast or good-looking car; just something to get the hang of driving stick in traffic. And if I get a WRX, it'd be a used 2002 as well.

ldelaysionl: I don't dislike the 2.5 RS; it's a great alternative to all the Civics and Corollas out there. But for my purposes, the WRX would make a lot more sense.

I have an STi and I'm only 16 and a half. But I've been taught by my dad and his frirend how to handle a car like that. I love my car a lot but also cops like to follow me to make sure I'm not speeding which sucks. I didn't realize that cops know how powerful that my car is.

Yeah, ever since The Fast and The Furious, cops have been really anal around any car with a giant wing, it seems.

Anyways, if you are a sixteen and a half and you REALLY do have an STi, good luck and don't kill yourself...all the teaching in the world won't do you any good without a ton of experience, which you better hope you somehow have :)

Yeah, ever since The Fast and The Furious, cops have been really anal around any car with a giant wing, it seems.

Anyways, if you are a sixteen and a half and you REALLY do have an STi, good luck and don't kill yourself...all the teaching in the world won't do you any good without a ton of experience, which you better hope you somehow have :)

My dad and his friend have taught me on their BMW M5 and Mercedes Benz C32 AMG and I got lots of training from them. They taught me ways to drive better with a much faster car. I only have fun when I'm offroad or at the Laguna Seca race track.

no offense man but you sound like you're a little scared. if you're scared don't get the WRX or the STI cause then you'd just be a kid with a cool car that he can't drive. if it were my choice and my parents wanted to pay for an STI i'd get the STI in a heartbeat. i have a 02 WRX right now, which i'm in the process right now of making it just as fast if not faster than an STI, which doesn't take entirely that much. get yourself a honda and once you strap on a set get a real car. haha. just jokin man. good luck with your decision. to each their own.

Of course I'm scared, because I know there is a chance I could screw up the car due to lack of experience...

And my parents can't afford the new STi, if I chose to get that, I'd probably have to wait a couple years and get it used...so I'm thinking I'll just get something cheap for now, gain some experience, and get an STi used in a few years with whatever is left over from my college fund.

I went out to a junkyard once to buy parts off of a wrecked 2004 WRX. Turns out when i got there that the car was completely totaled. It took me 15 mins of looking for the car while it was infront of me to find it. The car apperenlty had been bought 4 days prior to it arriving at the junkyard. It had less than 4,000 miles on it and no dirt what so ever on the filter. The car had been doing 120 down a local road, lost control and wrecked into a telephone pole and literaly wrapped itself around it. The driver and passenger survived. I honestly wouldnt give a performance car to an unexperienced driver but if there was any choice of which i would give if i had to, it would be the wrx or the sti.

Are you from around Baltimore, MD? My parents bought my brother a WRX for his 17th b-day, and he wrecked it in 4 days. He was going 80 or 90 down a local road, didn't see the stop sign, ran across york road (one of the main roads around here), and hit a telephone pole. The pole hit just inside of the right headlight, and the car roled end over end a couple times. There were 4 people in the car, and the only injuries were 2 broken noses for the guys in the back since they weren't wearing seat belts.

Kman, take a test drive in the WRX. It should be plenty fast for you. If your uncomfortable with that, go with the 2.5rs....that thing still has some power to it. Whatever you get, just don't drive stupidly and you don't have to worry about crashing.

i say get the STI, granny drive it for a little bit and just progress it little by little....that and play a LOT and i mean A LOT of gran turismo 2 and 3, hell play just about any racing game out there for a while.(that's how i got so good myself). so yeah just learn how drive it first and then you can race it later.

i would learn how to race it around midnight and somewhere where there is nobody around and you can learn at your own pace. just remember try not to copy shit off of TV and movies untill you know how to drive your car like it came nature!!! i've seen alot of people try that stuff and they paid for. one of my friends tryed copying me by trying to do a FF drift in the rain think he'll be able to do it no sweat and wrecked his car in to a side rail and almost fell off a cliff. so learn at your own pace please. i don't feel like seening anymore people wrecking there car or worse think there the shit and they do anything the pwoplw in the moving can do.

Believe me, I'm not stupid enough to copy anything I see off of TV or movies...I'm not that kind of kid. The only time I've ever raced or drifted is in a wide open parking lot at 2 AM with no cars around for me to hit.

The only racing game I've played (and I've played a LOT of it) is Initial D Arcade Stage Ver. 2, which isn't realistic at all. I'm going to look for a copy of Gran Turismo 3, though - I've heard stories of people actually improving their driving skills greatly through playing that game with a force feedback wheel.

I guess I might as well test-drive a WRX, but right now I'm leaning towards something with a little less power. Maybe the 2.5 RS.

I live in California on the central coast. Actually recently we had 2 people die in anaccident involving WRX while a WRX club meeting was driving around. Guy thought he was cool and tried to pass while it was raining around a corner and lost control. Needless to say they rolled into a ravine, driver died instantly when it fell 50ft and the passanger died in the ambulance.

The fact that you are 17 brings up some interesting factors that you haven't even considered. I am 17 and in your position I would definitely go for the STi if my parents were going to buy it for me. If learning how to drive a manual is a concern, ask some friends if they would be willing to help you. In high school there are literally hundreds of crappy cars with manual transmissions. Offer to pay for a replacement clutch if you are very bad, but even $400 for a new clutch in your friends 1984 Corolla is much cheaper than buying a car with the intention of learning on a stick.

I have personally driven a 2.5 RS and a WRX, and the difference in power is incredible. I can only imagine driving a STi. Neither were super-difficult to drive and I never felt out of control or in danger or anything.

To recap: Buy the STi, learn how to drive on a friends crappy car, take it easy until you feel comfortable, get all the women with the fastest car at your school.

good luck man, you are super-lucky

Well, I'm still not 100% sure if my parents can afford the STi. But there's a good chance that they'll be able to shell out 15-20K for a used WRX by this summer. If I really wanted the STi, I'd probably have to wait a year or two and get it used.

About learning to drive stickshift, I've actually gotten a decent amount of practice on my friend's 92 Chevy Beretta. But I'm always afraid I'm going to mess up the car, and I'd feel really, really bad if I messed up someone else's car, even if I paid for the repairs. Even so, I think that I've gotten good enough that I can just drive the WRX gently until I get a good feel for manual driving. All I'm worried about really is the combination of turbocharged power, all-wheel-drive, and manual transmission; three things I have little to no experience with. I don't want to get myself hurt like that idiot that ragnarok720 described, but then again, I'd never try something like what he did.

On a side note, my Camry's transmission has been acting up lately, and I might need a new one. If that's the case, I'll just put a manual tranny in there and practice on that, then get a WRX whenever I'm ready. :P

seriously man i think that you are overthinking this, there is no way you can get in any excessive trouble if you drive safely and obey (within reason) the speed limits until you are ready to cut loose. perhaps you have misconceptions of the WRX having a twichy idle and a touchy clutch, but this is simply untrue. in my (admittedly limitted, about 20 minutes of driving my friends modded one) experience I have found the WRX to simply be a super-fun sports sedan. one that makes a hell of a grocery getter, but still retains all the drivability of an everyday commuter car. i urge you to not let any concerns about being able to drive it get in the way of owning this awesome car.

PS: please don't put a manual tranny in your camry not only will the wiring harness be hell it will also significantly lower the resale value of it.

Also PS: if you live in northern california i would be glad to teach you how to drive a manual in my 1992 subaru legacy wagon...

I know I'm overthinking it way too much. I'm just gonna go test-drive one this weekend and see how it is...

And no, I'm not gonna put a manual tranny in the Camry, since I realized that it would very difficult and expensive. I guess I'll just sell it. Oh yeah, I live in Las Vegas.

Well I hope you know to shift fast because that car will take off once you punch it. Already at second gear your doing 80. I did that once. The car is fast!!!!

80 at the top of 2nd gear? I didn't know it was THAT fast...and I'm gonna have to work on shifting quickly without accidentally shifting before I get the clutch all the way in.

gyea good luck..dont pop the clutch out too fast before you even get it into gear all the way..or you'll be hearing a painful grind..always hurt to hear that sound..

You'd have to be in 4th gear to get to 80mph

Yep, 4th for 80 MPH. The STi is one of the few cars that has to shift into 3rd in the 0-60 MPH tests because of the short gearing. 2nd's only good to about 50-55 MPH, 3rd's about 70-75.

i have personally been in a WRX going 80 MPH in third. it had slight mods (cold air, BOV, exhaust) but 80 MPH is definitely attainable in third.

BTW, learn how to shift slowly first. then focus on quick shifts. missing fifth and going back into third is a great way to mess up your tranny beyond all repair.

The WRX has a different transmission than the STi though

WRX standard transmission = 5 speed
STi transmission = 6 speed
The two transmissions have completely different gear ratios.

Also, a shift from 4th to 3rd instead of 5th at redline in 4th will usually bend valves and break valve springs rather than hurt the transmission.

That's the kind of stuff I'm really, really scared of...just have to be super careful I guess.

Also, I've heard in a lot of STi reviews that the 6th gear isn't really necessary for such a torquey, fast-accelerating car, and it was more of an advertising tool...how much does the extra gear really help acceleration, or is the extra shift just a pain in the ass?

6 speed trannys have better gas mileage due to their ratios. hp and torque really dont have any effect on how many gears your tranny has, if it were up to me i would have a muncie 4 spd in my wrx. The way they setup the STi is odd though, 2 gears to get to 60 is just bizzar. It already sucks that the 5 spd has 1st gear so short its almost useless except to get the turbo spooling. 2 gears like that just doesnt make much sense.

6th gear in the STi is actually still useable. In most cars, top gear is exclusively an overdrive gear, but if the track were fast enough 6th is still a useable gear. There are 6-speeds where top speed is in 5th, and the early C5 Corvettes actually had their top speed in 4th, and both 5th and 6th are highway cruising gear. 70 MPH is 3000 RPM in 6th, so it's not purely a cruising gear.

In the STi, 2nd is perfect for most autocrosses, and 3-5 are perfect for most road courses.

Just get a STI

get an impreza L and learn to drive. They awd and they're subaru. If you are planning to do any moding to you car get an sti. I know at leat 4 people who are doing a 2.5 sti engine swap into their wrx, and the 6-speed is "bullet proof". 6-speed is around 6k not including install and a sti block(no internals) is around 3k. Also it has brembos they're 3k.

^^^you could also turn it into a rally car. Eventualy I'll get an old L and drop eather a stroked EJ22T w/ RA heads or a bored and stroked svx motor w/ twinturbos.

Sounds fun. School is about to be out down here in Pensacola, Fl and I am driving a 2002 Wrangler sahara that I got new. At the end of summer after I'm done with my summer jobs Im thinking I will have saved up about 12 grand, and Im gona sell the jeep, or trade it in. I need some advice also because I am bound and detirmined to buy a java black sti and hook it upppp. I will be frequenting these forums for advice on parts and maintenance, I am also looking for a subaru dealer, and I cant seem to find one around here. Pensacola is located on Florida's panhandle close to Alabama and Mississippi, so if anyone knows of any major dealerships, lemme know!

My main concern in this matter is paying insurance, its a sports car, it has a turbo, and it has an awd tranny, expensive expensive. :-/

I was aiming at trying to eventually get my car (while Im in college) to around 530 hp... I also was gona try to keep the top mount intercooler because I think thats what makes the car the car, that big ass hood scoop.

I have failed to mention that I, also, am only 17 yrs old...

As far as parts for the car go, I was thinking the whole 9 yards, which is to be expected if I am gona push that engine to anything close to 500hp...

As far as your post about driving experience man, try to find a friend with an all wheel drive car, or 4 wheel drive, and run the shit out of it around corners, etc, etc. because its going to be 10 times worse, especially if you get your new car thinking you can gun it around 90 degree turns and such, which I do alot in the jeep, but I gota remember that I dont have a turbo to spool up while im in the turn.... ah I duno, im babbling, just try to find someone with something sporty thats at least a 5 speed manual short shift...and even better if it is a drifter... I learned alot on a friends 2nd gen RX7...But any way, thats my 2 cents on things...

Suggestions, hints etc etc are welcome/desired, im gona need all the help I can get...

Moon-

500hp is a tall order for a TMIC...

Not nessisarily. Depends if he's talking whp like people should or flywheel hp wich is just a theoretical #. If it is flywheel hp then all you really need is PE 800cc injectors an a big turbo. If it is whp then well good luck.

No, 500HP IS a tall order for a car with a TMIC, moving to a FMIC will make a lot of difference.

I strongly agree it sounds how to say...bonkers... But my point truley was not in style for the TMI, but I was concidering keeping the TMI for what I would be using the car for. You see, I want to truley use it for rally, not offroad, but on track...The constant accelerating/decelerating would build a tremendous amount of heat if im not mistaken? I do understand bigger intercooler=cooler engine=more HP, and a TMI is limited in space altho Turbo XS makes a decent top mount...Im contradicting myself already, lol...Gah...Basically what im saying is my car will not be used for drag, so I didnt see much need in investing in a FMIC, but if it is necessary then so be it. I just didnt want to take away from the style of the car, a sexy ass CF Hood with a big scoop would just make me melt... I was aiming in the 400's for whp, I was talking about at the HP@Flywheel. Scuse me ;). But hey, you guys are the pro's, I'll be here taking advice as it comes...

Thanks Gents,
Bill

Dont know how much this means to anyone but read this, got it off a post... I'd like to see this...

"Subaru Easy Street Motorsports ESX 740
Easy Street Motorsports (ESX) starts with the already enthusiastic Subaru WRX and gives it a three-step makeover; base-level ESX tuning nets 344-hp and a 4.5-second 0-60-mph time, while the mid-level ESX500 package gets 500 hp and 3.8-second 0-60 times. The full-on ESX 740 setup becomes a monster street car capable of 0-60 mph times under two seconds and quarter mile times faster than 140 mph. Don't let the "740" badging fool you, ESX owner and race driver Ali Afshar claims the actual horsepower is above 800, thanks to a Toni Rigoli Performance-built EJ20 stroker engine boosted by Innovative GT72 turbocharger, top-mount intercooler, dual-stage NOS Nitrous Oxide system, MicroTech LTX-8 engine management chip, and an array of products from Subaru Performance Tuning. An automatic tranny transfers power through the Subaru AWD to BFGoodrich Comp T/A 255/06R16 drag radials."

Thread URL:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=209115

One question,
Sti=AWD

How is the power (normally) distributed between front and rear axles, I know it depends on the 3 differentials, but say on a typical street race...what like 40%/60%? Hows this work--I need to move this to a new thread...

Bill-

w/ the sti you can change it on the fly. It will put more power where it is needed or you can change it maualy from 20/80 to 50/50. Not sure about the 20/80 might be more like 30/70.

The WRX is pretty sweet but I dont think you need it. My friend has a 98 2.5 and it is pretty quick. My advice to you is to just get a 2.5 learn in that. Also, if your going to obey the law, you really cant use a WRX to its potential unless you goto the track.

500hp is very atainable w/ a tmic. APS got 468 whp with their dr55 turbo. They did use their fmic but they have a larger turbo as well.

I know a guy who is going to put 400whp on his sti with out a fmic. I'm also in colorado so he is going to put around 500whp sae corrected. I can't wait for the sti to get finished, he's already got a JDM front bumper(bigger fogs) and JDM seats front(narrower) and rear(mainly to match but it has a center armrest). He's repainting it to be silver w/ red flecs. His screen name is wonderspark on clubwrx.net

Who said anything about the law :) Im already in trouble when I take my cat off, lol...

w/ the sti you can change it on the fly. It will put more power where it is needed or you can change it maualy from 20/80 to 50/50. Not sure about the 20/80 might be more like 30/70.

The tourque distribution on the STi is 35F/65R. Technically, what the DCCD does is change the percentage slip of the limited slip center diff, so it doesn't change the F/R tourque split, just how the power is applied. I don't know enough about differential theory to be able to explain exactly what it does, but the actual power applied on a dyno will be the same regardless of the DCCD setting.

Supersmith,
Im probly going to sound like a jock here, but, I have grown up playing soccer, skate boarding, a little surfing, alot of paintballing, and more recently wakeboarding, and if I have learned anything in these sports, its the little saying "Go big or go home." :evillol: I can see what you are saying but I think I'm head over heals with a Java black sti...I dunno though, thx for input.

Bill