Hey all I just ran my 2 at english town, and I surprised alot of people.. also this was my first time running on a track. I ran three cars, (1) a gutted out civic in which i ran a 13.5 (2) a stock 2002 corvette in which i messed up on my launch and he beat me by 1/10 of a sec. ran low 14's (3) a turbo charged civic, where i also messed up on my launch but still beat him and ran low 14's..
I expected to run low 13's and possibly high 12's but I kept on messing up my launch. Does anybody know what i can do to remedy this so next time at the track I can get into the 12's.

Low 14s to high 12s is a huge jump.

You are going to need at least 50 more horsepower at the wheels with near perfect driving.
(figure another 70-80HP out of the engine).

What were your 60' times?
What are your mods.

My entire track history with Hyde is here:
http://jekylandhyde.madpowaz.com/slips.htm

That may give you some idea of what it takes to get into the 12s ... and 11s.

Low 14s to high 12s is a huge jump.


That may give you some idea of what it takes to get into the 12s ... and 11s.

Its a huge jump, but not really if you F up your launch. In my eclipse i have gone from mid 12s to 15s! all from messing up on my launch. Thats when i first starting going to the track. A little bit of practice and the launches come more naturally. =)

Good point.

I just searched and his dyno thread claims he made 261 HP which should be enough to get in the 12s with proper driving.

His initial post in here is missing the crucial information: mph and 60' time.
They tell us a lot more about his car's potential than the actual ET number.

261whp in a stock car with only intake and exhuast is insane. My car back in the day made 232whp with intake, exhaust, avcr, afc. Hey hyde, what tranny are you running on your car?

I have a recently rebuilt 93 LSD tranny, TRD motor mounts, SPEC stage 3 4-puck race clutch and a resurfaced OEM flywheel ... 255/16's BFG drag radials ... that is about it for getting power to the ground.

yeah my 92 tranny died the last time i went to the track. im trying to find a reman 93 tranny for cheap or i might as well get a brand new one from toyota for $1700. i can still drive it but it wont shift passed 4k rpm. I have tried to run in the stock 14" wheels and ill tell you its the craziest feeling. you can pull some insane trap speeds. haha.

Rim size only affects trap speed by their weight ... the over diameter of rim+tire does affect trap speed.

A smaller overall diameter results in lower trap speeds, faster acceleration, but a lot less gearing.

Stock overall diamter is around 24" ... ideally for drag racing, you want to be around 26" or so. This is gives you more gearing and a higher mph.

I gained over 2 mph by switching from 24" to 26.5"

Rim size only affects trap speed by their weight ... the over diameter of rim+tire does affect trap speed.

A smaller overall diameter results in lower trap speeds, faster acceleration, but a lot less gearing.

Stock overall diamter is around 24" ... ideally for drag racing, you want to be around 26" or so. This is gives you more gearing and a higher mph.

I gained over 2 mph by switching from 24" to 26.5"


the stockers i have, have some gigantic bubble tires. but i see what you are saying. i have a set of the 14s, 15s, 16s, and 17s for my mr2 and i think im going to get rid of everything and get a set of 16x10 w/ 16x9s

I am using 255 drag radials on a 16X7 ... yes, you can use them on a rim that narrow :D

You are probably wise getting a 16X9 .. just be careful of fitment issues with big tires ;)

Yeah sorry for leaving that stuff out. right now I can only find the time slip with the vette.
r/t - .541
60'- 2.338
330 - 6.092
1/8 - 9.192
mph - 80.34
1000 - 11.845
1/4 - 14.111
mph - 99.44

off the launch at this run my friends said it looked like I stalled out and then went. :disappoin

A few things...

*Your mph should be higher for 260 rwhp.
This could be because yo uare making good power on a small turbo.
260rwhp with a bigger turbo would have netted better mph & times.
Did you race at the same boost level you dynoed at?
What rpm were you shifting at?
You need to be trapping at least 104 mph to touch the 12s with perfect driving.

*Your 60' time needs improvement.
It sounds like you lagged off the line - probably need to launch at a higher rpm.
If you would hit a 1.9 - 2.0 in the 60' (which is a "good" MR2 launch), you would have run a 13.3-13.5 easily.

Compare yourself here:
http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/quartermile/

Look at cars with similar mph and great 60' times ... that will give you an idea of your potential.

I have a limiter so i was shifting at 6k rpms. and yes i raced at the same boost that i dyno'd at..

Are you on the CT26 or the CT20b turbo?
If you were on the ct26 you were shifting late.

What kind of limiter are you refering to? (fuel, rpm ,mph or boost)

rpm limiter
and i have the ct26 turbo..
if I was shifting too late then when should I have shifted?

[copy/paste] I posted this on another board:

Please feel free to post anything that contradicts the following information. I am merely sharing what my research has found.
Nothing below is written in stone (As far as I know :) )

Shift point information:

http://www.lingenfelter.com/shiftpoint.asp

http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

http://realbig.com/miata/miata/1995-12/910.html

Using the formula on the third link, my car should be optimally shifted well beyond redline ... and I do shift at redline.

Formula:
Lower gear ratio / higher gear ratio X RPM at peak Torque = Shift RPM

Using the same formula for a stock CT26 MR2, I get shift points:
1st --> 2nd = 6595 rpms
2nd --> 3rd = 5643 rpms
3rd --> 4th = 5595 rpms
4th --> 5th = 4915 rpms

Hope that helps.

Notice how the following both have the peak torque at the same RPM?

276 HP CT26
http://www.turboforum.net/dyno/images/mattjenkins/dyno276.jpg

161 HP CT26:
http://www.turboforum.net/dyno/images/averyd/redmr2dyno.gif

Same turbo, same shift points :thumb:

rpm limiter
and i have the ct26 turbo..
if I was shifting too late then when should I have shifted?

remember that your car will run or power will be different from time of dyno tuning also if the weather and conditions are different. Like if you are tuning with afc or something the weather can totally throw it off. Same goes with the vpc at times. What are you using to tune the car? type of boost controller also can effect times. Some electronic boost controllers can allow you to have different boost characteristics which can effect how and where the power comes in.

I am using the greddy profec b spec 2 boost controller and I was dyno tuning my car..

yeah well if you hit the rpm limiter that can def explain your slow times. that stutter when you hit rev limit SUCKS. lol. but looking at your times it seems like the difference was in your 60ft. how are you launching? are you dumping the clutch?

yeah I am dumping the clutch at around 2-3000 rpms.. i guess I should let off at higher rpms

Higher RPMs and slip the clutch ... don't dump it. ;)

also remember that if you are dumping the clutch you are most likely not building boost up before launch. I rev up high and let the clutch slip a little bit and i build boost that way. try it. dont dump the clutch, youll either break something or totally bog out.

also remember that if you are dumping the clutch you are most likely not building boost up before launch.
Unless you have 2-step rev limiter ;)

hehe, i learned that the hard way in my eclipse.

i know im just stirring up old dust by posting here, but....

i just got the car, and the clutch was slipping a little with these times...keep in mind i had my license 3 months and was still learning how to drive a stick much less race it. this was back in january.

shifted at 7200 in 1st, 7000 in 2nd, 6500 in 3rd :uhoh: the more i've read on forums, the more everyone has said shift at around 6k in 1st and 2nd. the setup on the car when i made these times gave me 220 rwhp/220 rwtq...since then i have gotten my motor/tranny rebuilt, upgraded my turbo to 57 trim wheel, machined my throttle body, and installed a blitz downpipe. curious to see what times i can get on this new setup, but first i want to see how i should be driving my car so im not just wasting my time at the track. :banghead:

60' -2.3xx
1/8- 9.512@76
1/4- 14.5xx@96

even with clutch slipping (it was only slipping very slightly) i should have gotten much better times than this...tips on driving? i've started slipping the clutch at about 4k and start shifting at around 6k instead of going all the way to 7200....what else should i be doing? thanks in advance.

how do you know that you are making 220whp? When I made 22whp i was able to run 13.4
Was the car dynoed?

yes, dynoed 220 rwhp/220 rwtq...running same boost as when i dyno'd these numbers....despite the facts that i was running on bald street tires and my clutch was slipping a bit, i still should have gotten better times....

mainly my question is, how should i be driving the car? clutch slip at 4k-4.5k and shift at 6k rpm in 1st and 2nd....then 5500 going into 4th?

i nromally slip the clutch enough to build a little boost. As far as shift points, look at your dyno chart and see where your peak power is. I would shift at those points.