datsunadict

Alright guys, i have been hearing a lot about this whole V-tech Honda/Acura vs. VR6 VW. I would like to give my 2 cents worth. If you don't agree, or if you actually race a honda, keep your oppinions to yourself. If you agree, feel free to add.

First off, racing a honda is like competing in the special olympics, even if you win, you're still a retard. i realize that a reasonably modified integra type-r is fairly fast. but listen guys, 14@95mph is not a fast 1/4 mile. 12 and below is impressive.
the thing i don't get is why these guys are talking about honda's like they are sports cars! maybe i am out of touch, but a 170 hp 4-door FWD car is just not on my list of sports cars.
the other very maddening thing i am hearing is all these guys spouting off about thier 250+hp ricers. allow me to share something with the group. A cars horsepower is decided by a formula. the formula is as follows

(Torque X RMPS) / 5252 = hp

so you multiply the max torque by the rpms it made it at, then divide by 5252 and you get your horsepower. basically if your car makes max power before 5252rpms you have more torque, and above you have more hp. this is why deisels make a lot more torque than hp. on the same token, i don't know of too many hondas that make thier hp at or below 5252rpms. so that 250 hp is backed by maybe 200 lb/ft of torque. now the vr6 makes its max horsepower much lower and makes significant hp in the lower rpms, therefore, unless you keep that honda between 7 and 8 grand the entire time you drive it, you are dead in the water.

I would like to share another thing with you guys. I have a 1978 Datsun 280Z in the neighborhood of 400 hp and 380 lb/ft or torque. My fastest 1/4 time in that was 10.9 @ 132 mph. My other car is a bone stock commuter car for winters and getting to work and back, that is a toyota rav 4. Several times this past summer, hondas would pull up next to my Rav and attempt to race me, sorry to say, i kept up with most of them. even the ones with that 4 " fart cannon that is suposedly worth 10 hp. now in the datsun, i had trouble finding hondas that would race me. so i finnally pulled in next to a integra type-R at the gas station that i had attempted to race the previous day. I asked him why he didn't want to race me. he gave me a puzzled look and said, "I did."

Granted the race always looks different in the winners perspective, but honda headlights in the rear view mirror of my datsun, and even my toyota Rav4, does not seem like a fair race.

If you have a honda, i am sorry. I wish that your parents had instilled you with some car sense.

thats my 2 cents, Like it or not!

ZackKVtec

first off, you started talking about vtec vs. vr6 (4 cylinders vs. 6 cylinders) so the vw should have a bit of an advantage as it is, we wont take into account the worse gas mileage and reliability

second off, 14 may not be an "impressive" 1/4 mile time, but it is definetly respectable and thats stock, now i dont know everything about vw's but i dont think they have created a 14 sec stock vehicle, besides maybe the corrado vr6 which if is true was not lower than 14.9

Porsche Boxster S : 14.2@99
Nissan 350z Track : 14.4@99
WRX : 14.4@95
Integra Type R : 14.8@95

"unless you keep that honda between 7 and 8 grand the entire time you drive it, you are dead in the water."
can you try to exaggerate less, most hondas dont redline at 8k, but if you want to use the gsr as an example (8k redline)
its more like 4-8k, still not awesome but i also get 28 mpg

i guess my parents didn't instill in me some car sense, since im too young too own two cars, an econobox and a drag car, i chose one that has not given me a problem between 89350 - 112000 miles, gets 25-30 mpg, is really fun to drive, runs about a 15 flat, would annihilate your rav 4, which i would not rev up to cause its a pos girly style COMPACT suv , but then again i could not take your 10.9 second datsun, which would also beat a ferrari enzo(11.1@133) or a mclaren f1(11.6@125) by your description.

i am studying mech engineering and german though, so one day i will have money, and although i will be working for porsche, who will still not be able to beat your datsun, but you know what, ill buy a civic (even though i hate them) i'll do whatever i have to do to it just so i can go around and embarrase close minded people like you

__________________
1996 Integra GSR:
JRSC @ 6psi-JR BTC-GReddy SP2 - leaky valve seals - AEM SRI

tylerrules84

yeah... I'm a hardcore VW guy... but even I think you're full of crap here. The statements about a GSR not being a sports car applies just as well to pretty much any VW. Nearly all sporty VW's are just modified grocery getters which is really no different than Honda.
And you have to respect the ability to get that much power from a little 4 cylinder.
You should also do a little more research into the whole torque and power thing. Torque is nice for when you're running at low rpm... but unless you're towing things or just like to feel the torque... its kinda pointless. When you're racing or at least driving spiritedly the engine should be at full boil, so it makes no difference.
So ummm... broaden your horizons a little, big guy.

__________________
Driver Found.

datsunadict

I never said that a honda wasn't fast for what it was, nor did i say that a VW was a sportscar. What i said is that a honda is NOT a sports car. Any car that weighs 2500 lbs and produces 150 + hp is gonna be fairly fast, but that doesnt make it a race car.

If you want to build a fast car, start with a fast car. but i don't see what the obsession is with drag racing. it doesnt take a pile of talent to drive in a straight line unless you have a very fast car.

that is why i like VW's a lot better than hondas. not only will a corrado SLC accelerate well, it will also carry that speed through corners and slingshot out of them like a bullet. That is where torque comes in handy. unless you want to keep your honda redlined in first gear the whole way around the track, you can never slingshot out of turns like that.

I do have to give 4 cylinders credit, but, I give them credit as a potent engine for a commuter car.

and you forget that anybody can get performance out of a car if you put enough money into it. I am an Automotive Tech, and i have put almost 35 grand into my Z.

ZackKVtec

a lot more integras autocross than the expired slc, and im not positive, but i think they might shift out of first once in a while

__________________
1996 Integra GSR:
JRSC @ 6psi-JR BTC-GReddy SP2 - leaky valve seals - AEM SRI

Gti_vr6_racer

Now this is the kind of person that really pisses me off. For one if you are keeping your vtec honda or honda derivative in vtec there is no way in hell you are getting 28 miles/gallon. Now about working for porsche, i really hope that you never get any type of moving violation because then your hopes of working for any automotive manufacture is shot to hell. Not to mention about the only way to get into working for volvo, bmw, benz, vw, porsche, jag, audi is to go to their 5 month step up program where you learn all the ins and outs of their cars. And the only way to get into one of those schools is to be attending a tech school in which these companys have decided produce good auto techs or engineers. The number one school to go to if you want to get into one of these step up schools is Lincoln Tech, The one i attend in Columbia MD has the BMW schhol attached to it. Oh yeah i also forgot to mention that if your going to work for porsche you wont need to learn german the probability that you will be sent to Germany is 1 in a million. Most of their better techs and engineers are sent to diffrent aeras of the US so not to disrupt their regular life (arnt they nice!).


Now to hit the part that pissed me off the most. first off, you started talking about vtec vs. vr6 (4 cylinders vs. 6 cylinders) so the vw should have a bit of an advantage as it is, we wont take into account the worse gas mileage and reliability. Well now my friend you should have done your fucking homework. A 2003 gti vr6 equipped with a 6 speed manual transmission is able to get 20-28 mpg. A 2003 Golf TDI can reach in the upwards of 38-45 mpg. And a 2003 Jetta 2.0L can get about 25-30 mpg. And if vw is son unreliable why do i see so many 50's 60's and 70's bugs running around town with no problem?

__________________
_--MODS--_
Euro spec cai with ractive filter
ABD racing strut tower bar
Drop zone lowering springs 2'' all around
_--BS STUFF--_
VR6 inside sticker on gas door
Seatbelt pads
Frot air ducts
Blacked out emblems
_--EN ROUTE--_
Neuspeed titanium Catback system
Carbon fiber hood with rally scoop.

ZackKVtec

hahaha, where do i begin.... ok punk, i would love to see you keep any 6 cylinder in the upper half of their rpm range and get anywhere near the gas mileage i achieve without a variable valve timing system, honda's vtec is made for gas mileage and power, and ready smart tech guy (mechanic) i filled up my tank once a week in the summer, and added roughly 10 gallons a time, i also reset my tip miles every time i go to the gas station, and almost every week there would be 280 trip miles on odometer, try to do the math. if you would like to bring into account other vehicles made by honda (as you did in a stupid attempt to prove they have better gas mileage lol) civic hybrid does pretty good.

secondly, which should i own you on first the reliability (LOL) or the schooling, ill take care of this schooling issue right now. heres the deal, i am in a 5 year International Engineering Program, in may i will be visiting all of the companies you dream about with my school this may, then a little down the road i will be interning for one of them for 6 months, after that i will be studying at the University of Braunschweig for a semester, (you should be passing your BMW course right about the same time, Im interning for them) oh and by the way did your school offer you an internship at the BMW plant in South Carolina for this summer, cause mine offered me one.

now, i dont know if i'll exactly own you on this last topic but volkswagens have never been known for their reliability, and actually since it pissed you off so much i think ill repeat myself, "first off, you started talking about vtec vs. vr6 (4 cylinders vs. 6 cylinders) so the vw should have a bit of an advantage as it is, we wont take into account the worse gas mileage and reliability." now back to my point VW's are not as reliable as hondas and you know it so dont fool yourself any longer, and by not as reliable i mean the engines and the whole mechanics of the car, i mean when i see a one headlighted car coming down the street i know almost all the time that its either an audi or a VW, what the hell is up with that, also my buddy couldn't believe how much faster my mom's 1.9 saturn (5sp) was faster than his dad's 2.0 VW(5sp) not to mention whenever he had one problem fixed another arose, and how many 50-60-70 bugs do you see roaming around your area because there arent that many where im from, i knew of one but it was renovated in the guys garage.

im sorry to have owned you on every point but you know, sometimes people gotta break the harsh truth to you, like the fact that im probably going to take your job one day, and the fact my gsr is just as fast as your car, exept ill have less problems and i do , in fact, get better gas mileage than you.... im so sorry to be the one who had to break this all to you, now i know your going to read through my argument 10 times so you can find something you can rebute, and go ahead give it your best shot, but everything in my post is the truth, and im sorry it had to be me to tell you

__________________
1996 Integra GSR:
JRSC @ 6psi-JR BTC-GReddy SP2 - leaky valve seals - AEM SRI

Ceune

wow whoever made this post is a moron sry

vw and hondas are GREAT CARS
and its not like it is hard to make good hp with either oh and what you said about even if a honda wins their still a retard... well nice and orignal..... ass

mex

some of you guys are fucked!!!!!
(some)

mex

oh yeah you mister "tech guy" lol if you spent "32 grand" on your 280z and you only have 400 horses
thats pretty sad....
10.9 sure buddy you wish

bassman

some guy just pretty much said that Audis and VWs are not great cars.... that guy has no clue what he is talking about. He owns an Acura... he is probably jealous because he can't afford either.

Audis and VWs are some of the nicest cars made IMO. They are both quick, and handle nicely. I doubt that Acuras handle as nice as Audis or VWs...

but im not saying Acuras "suck" or anything. They are great cars.

OneManLan

And you sir... are a MORON.

Try typing in correct english please. It makes you look a tad smarter than you aren't. There is no way your in a program like that. Your a chronic liar. I know your type, you have to make bigger lies to cover up your other lies. Its very sad. Learn your cars, son, if in fact you are going into the car engineering industry. VW and Audi's are very nice cars. So are Hondas, but there are some things you need to sort out. Most of the pop-eye'd cars I see going down the roads are Fords or Hondas. That may just be by chance, but I'm pretty sure there is a good reason for it. I know for a fact that that Saturn isn't faster than even a 2.Slow VW.

bassman

we need to have a censor for everyone who types something stupid like: "I am an ass and I drive a "blah blah," so that means my car is better than your car.

seriously, how can some of this writing come from these people. don't say something that you don't know about unless if its an honest opinion.

stop trashtalking, unless if you know your facts .....dipshits

ZackKVtec

im sorry if i sound like an ass in my posts, but his orignal post made me so mad, and then some other people came back to trashtalk some more, i respectfully apologize to everyone who reads this post besides the two punks who dont know what their talking about, and btw vw's are pretty reliable, my buddy has a 95 glx, no big problems yet, i just got out of hand, gsr's do handle very well, they come stock with v rated tires and a strut bar. and i did take a 90 2.0 in my moms 2000 saturn, that couldve had something to do with the age of the cars, i wont post on this thread again... peace

__________________
1996 Integra GSR:
JRSC @ 6psi-JR BTC-GReddy SP2 - leaky valve seals - AEM SRI

datsunadict

Well, i want to know, why there are honda and acura owners posting in the VW forum about thier ricegrinders. isnt that what the honda forum is for?

Oh, and mex, you try to get 400 rwhp out of any 4-banger without forced induction or nos. I also run carburators and points.

I started building cars young, not at 14 or 15, but at 5. my first car project ever was my dad's baha bug. when i got a little older, my brother and I built a drag beetle out of a 62 6-volt that we converted to twelve, ran a turbo-charged 2300cc dual port, and converted the Getrag 4-speed transaxle into a 5-speed. the car ran 12's.

I dont know about you guys, but i got hooked on Dubs a an early age, and in my mind, they are some of the best engineered cars on the market. just like any other german car, it all comes down to maintenance and how competent the technician and driver are.

My last thought on this page is why would you buy a car that you have to turbo-charge or otherwise heavily modify to get decent performance. i started with the datsun because of the class i am racing in. I race legally at the raceway, not on the streets where somebody could get hurt or killed. to race at the track you have to meet certain criteria in order to race in a class. one criteria is natural asperation, so i did not turbo or supercharge it. another is that it cannot have EFI, so i scrapped the nissan FI setup and switched to weber carbs as guys with beetles often do.