Which is better? Si Turboed or Si Vortech Supercharged?

The vortech Supercharger dynos at 272 hp at wheels and 181 lbs torque. Does anyone know the numbers for a Turbo si?

Im lookin into gettin an si and turbo or supercharge it.

Thanx in advanced

Jordo

Man it all depends all what u want . The supercharger will give u power all through the power band and its less maintaince . The turbo would have alot more power but its more for top end speed and it takes a little bit of time for the turbo to spool up . If i was in ur position i would get the turbo just b/c i want more POWER and thats all i care about hehehe :D . Basically if u want peak power ...ur not gonna worry about engine life or turbo lag go with the turbo plus it makes a cool ass hiissssssss noise when the blow off valve releases the pressure . Plus u have to get an intercooler ,turbotimer and some other crap to make sure your shit dont BLOW:p . Now with the supercharger your running alot less boast than a turbocharger . Your supercharger runs off of ur pulley system . The boast is basically their when u need it and when u dont ....so like if ur at a light and u stomped the hell out of it you'll get some power ;) its made for the everyday driver . Also theirs something that i found out about superchargers that i didnt like ...in SCC they had the vortech supercharger strapped in making around 270hp at tha fly but it only pulled a 14.3 in the 1/4 mile and im wondering wtf.....and alot of people think that you might need to add a limited slip to help get all that power to the ground or you might just be spinning ur wheel all day long at the line ;) well thats all i gotta say peace out :bandit:

God! Do u know how much the engine can take with a turbo? Most i have heard is 23 psi for an si.

In the Feb. 2001 issue of "Sport Compact Car", an Si pulled 272 at wheels and 181 lbs torque, 14.4 1/4.
The 1/4 has me wondering.. thats not a very good time. It says you can get alot better times if you mess with traction or something.

Do you know the price on a limited slip?

Thanx
Jordo

To tell u the truth i really dont know how much Psi a Si engine can take .....and 23 psi is alot :eek: ...im surprised it didnt blow ...but anyways theirs quife they make LSDs and their suppose to be really good . U might wanna back track on SCC maybe 3-5 months ago .....i think i cant really remember with all the SCC issues i have but they have one that specifically talks about LSD's and which ones are best for what application . Its pretty complicated to me and i didnt read it too much b/c it confused the hell out of me ...so u take a stab at it ;) and if u do get a turbo go for the DRAG Turbo ....ive heard good things about them .

drag gen III

how much would u say?

Originally posted by Jordo
how much would u say? I would say ur looking close at 5 with everything installed and everything ....... i'm heading out ill talk to u more about this later peace :o zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ok thank you.

Turbo for the strip, SC for the street.

This really is a tough call. For me, I might want to go with the SC. I would imagine it would be cheaper, and having driven an Si at countless stages of NA tuning, I have felt it's lack of low end. The SC would help to broaden the powerband, flatten the torque curve. I have heard great things about the JR supercharger and the Vortech. However, they aren't as much fun as a turbo.

My suggestion, if you have the money, would be to lower your compression, get a turbo with some good boost, say, maybe 20 psi, get a blow off valve and an intercooler, and do some cam work. The Si I drove (NA)got a HUGE low end boost once he got more aggressive cams. Thus, you would be able to get the high end hp up, broaden the powerband with the cam, and with some nice tires (paradas, nittos 555R's.....) your traction problems shouldn't be too bad.

My friend kept his stock tires for drag tires and has 18's for the street. You might consider doing that if you are going to drag much.

Wait a sec....the Si did not run 23 PSI during the test....that is IMPOSSIBLE with stock internals. :eek:

But if the engine was built.....with everything, and I mean everything, it would fly!!

What they ran was 10 Psi, and normaly from what I have heard about the Vortec, is that the kit is run at 8 psi on a stock internal Si.

HXMan is right, you CANNOT run 23 pounds of boost with stock internals. Unless you want one or two extraordinarily phat runs at the strip per engine (before throwing a rod, nuking a piston, or some other terminal engine disorder)!

In the GS-R engine, the threshold of safe boost using stock engine engine internals is right about 10 psi. This is pushing it, but with a carefully tuned fuel delivery system to prevent any leaning out, you should be all right as long as the compression ratio is even from cylinder to cylinder. With the Si engine, and its 1.74:1 rod/stroke ratio (note that the GS-R engine has a 1.58:1 rod/stroke ratio), you can get away with just a little more. But I still would not exceed 10 psi of boost without forged internals.

To go for a full 23 psi of boost, I'd get forged aluminum pistons, forged steel connecting rods, a balanced crankshaft, and I'd get your block pinned and resleeved with iron. 23 is some serious boost, particularly for a sub two liter four cylinder engine.

Anyway, back to your original question Jordo, it does depend on the applications in which you plan on using the motor. Don't be fooled, you get plenty of turbo lag with the Vortech supercharger. So the number one positive of using supercharging (i.e. for most no lag - although granted this is a benefit of positive displacement roots superchargers (which the Vortech is not), like the Jackson Racing SC) is absent from the Vortech. In light of this, in most cases between the two, especially since the Si engine makes so little torque and you don't want to bleed any off to power the SC, I'd go for turbocharging.

Jd@af and hxman i think he said the "most" hes ever heard of any si running was 23 psi . And i agree with JD@af about going with turbo charging it . Power !!!!!!!! cha cha cha Power cha cha cha Power !!!!!!!! cha cha cha ......V-8 killer cha cha cha V-8 killer cha cha cha .....Rustang killer cha cha cha hehehehe:D

The most ive ever heard of was 23 psi.

But you guys say go for the turbo! How much other shit do i have to have with the turbo?

Does it come as one kit?

With a civic it won't be any problem getting anything you want. The aftermarket for hondas is HUGE! You'll want an intercooler, blow off valve, and some regulatory guages (air:fuel, boost). But, don't worry about finding that sort of stuff. The basics stuff to apply the turbo comes as a kit.

If you wnat to be able to beat MOST other civics on the road go for the Vortech. I've seen 227.5 HP at the wheels on Si's with them. If you want to be able to beat ALMOST all other civics on the road go for the Drag Gen III. The thing with supercharging is that you can only go so far. With a turbo you can boost as high as you want (as long as the internals can handle it). The vortech is similar to a turbo in that it makes most of its power in VTEC. There probably won't be a LARGE difference in low end power with the vortch. The JRSC will make a large difference low down but it will not make a great as difference as the vortech up high.
If you have got the patience and have big plans for your car then I'd say turbo. Otherwise Look at Vortech and JRSC.

Here's the old s/c vs. turbo saga again....

One myth that just doesn't seem to go away is that superchargers are for low end power and turbos for high end. That used to be true a few years ago when turbos were big and had lousy responsiveness. Today, it's the contrary really.

I used to have a Golf VR6 with the Vortech supercharger. Even though it was fun to drive with, the supercharger ate all your power below 3000 rpm. Only after that point it started to pull. But all in all it was not spectacular at all. Also, take those hp numbers with a grain of salt. I'm pretty convinced that you don't get more than 80 additional hp out of a Vortech unit. And if you're susceptible to noise, don't go for it. The Vortech unit can be extremely loud, especially at tickover, since it doesn't have a clutch. I had to exchange mine 3 times until I got one with acceptable noise levels.

Modern turbos produce masses of torque from very low revs. I have an Audi S4 Avant that reaches maximum torque a 1850 rpm. Lag goes almost unnoticed but that is also due to the biturbo setup with two very small chargers.

If you are looking for a bolt-on conversion, the supercharger is the easy way to do it. With a turbo, you have to modify your engine a bit more; e.g. lowering compression and so on...).

But remember, if you add a supercharger it will feel as if you have added some cubic inches to your engine; power delivery is linear and unspectacular.
With a turbo you get that "vroomm" feeling, much more fun, but a bit less responsive due to minimal lag.

I don't know why I, like most, get sucked into the myth, as Griffith described above, especially when I know first-hand that it is often untrue. The classic dynamics of super versus turbo don't hold up, although in some cases they still have relevance. Saab turbos (even current models) that I have experienced still have turbo lag issues up the wazoo. And roots blowers, while they do rob torque at just about baseline rpms, produce elevated torque at all rpms above this (sub 3,000). Your best bet is to compare them on a case by case basis to decide which is better for your application.

I've heard Porsche turbo's suffer from boost too.

TURBO!!!! So much more potential and plus the Vortech SC is one expensive ass bitch. You'd end up spending a bit more for a turbo and you'd get much better results. But of course, that's speed-wise. If you are looking to do autocrossing and stuff like that, you're going to need the low end power of the Vortech.

I'm going with TURBO though!!!

Turbos are more effiecent.

Effiency ownz j00

'nuff said :D

Originally posted by VTEC_boi
Turbos are more effiecent.

Effiency ownz j00

'nuff said :D True. However, the newest Roots blowers from Eaton truly challenge the conventional turbocharger if you want to look at just efficiency. Most judgments of the Roots blowers are based upon the 2nd and 3rd gen blowers. The 4th gen. blowers (name change from the M62 to the MP62) represents a 7% increase in efficiency, and the 5th gen. blowers represent an additional 7% increase in efficiency over the 4th gen. units. Now, does this mean that they will be able to match a turbo in high end power and boostability? No. But with this level of efficiency, I don't think that there is a turbo on the market today that can match the 5th gen.'s level of efficiency.

jesus learn to spell

Originally posted by kidrocket
jesus learn to spell Care to elabortate on that remark? :D