My son changed the front brake pads and opened the bleeder nipple on the caliper in order to compress the caliper piston back far enough to install the new thick pads (big mistake!). This introduced air into the system which we can't seem to bleed out with one guy pumping the pedal and another going around to each wheel and opening the bleeder using a clear hose and catch jar etc. We've followed the factory manual's instructions regarding wheel order, etc. The mechanic at the dealer said he uses a power bleeder which works fine(!). We've bled them several times manually, but the pedal is still very (too) soft. We even bought a little vacuum hand pump bleeder which you use at each wheel, but it doesn't work any better. Is it possible to bleed this system without a power bleeder? My local dealer is so expensive, I hate to think about taking the van in to have them work on it. Were doing all the obvious stuff, like keeping the master cylinder full during the bleeding operation. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. BTW this is a '98 Plymouth Grand Voyager (same as Dodge Caravan & Chrylser T&C). I'm thinking of trying to lightly pressurize the master cylinder reservoir with my air compressor and see if that works. I think the problem is that the air bubbles move back up the brake line when you let off the pedal during the bleeding operation. Any thoughts? Help!

Just curious, when you pump the brake pedal several times, do you hold the pedal down at the last pump, crack open the bleeder nut until the pedal drops to the floor, hold it there, close the bleeder nut, and then repeat the process a few more times until the fluid comes out of the bleeder nut without bubbles? As long as you hold the pedal down while the bleeder nut is tightened, you should be able to keep the air from going back into the system. hope this helps. good luck

Thanks for reading and responding...Yes, thats exactly how we were doing it. There seems to be lots of air in the lines, because when you pump the pedal with the bleeder closed, it stills goes very close to the floor, so when you then open the bleeder, the pedal only drops one half to one inch or so, so it's not very effective-you don't pump much out of the bleeder. We also tried just leaving the bleeder open, and pumping the pedal with full strokes. We would get to the point where no more air was coming out, then go to the next wheel, but still when all done, the pedal is still way too mushy and goes almost to the floor. I'm an engineer and have been working on my own (and others) cars for 30 years, and have bled many brakes, so I don't think I'm doing anything really stupid. I just think there is something about this vehicle that makes bleeding very difficult and maybe it can only be done with a power bleeder for some reason. Or maybe there is something about the anti-lock brakes that requires some special treatment. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Sorry, just trying to help. My van isnt ABS equipped. Would it make a difference if you bled the brakes with the motor running? I recently learned from my father-in-law about brake bleeding when the rear brake cylinder blew. He said to start the van before bleeding the brakes which we did, but when the other brake cylinder blew, I rebuilt the rear brake and bled the system without the motor running with the same success. I havent bled brakes on ABS equipped vehicles, so there may be something different in the process. Sorry I couldent help. Good luck :dunno:

Is it possible that your son might have accidently loosened the brake line to one of the calipers while changing the pads? That might explain why you are still getting a soft pedal. I just did the same brake pads on my Mother's 2000 Caravan yesterday with no problems. Fill the resevoir, replace the cap and try pumping the brake pedal 10 times to build some pressure. Hold the pedal an the last pump and oopen the bleeder screw. Do this upwards of 5 times on each tire and you will see the pedal become stiffer. Make sure to keep the resevoir filled at all times between each tire.

My son changed the front brake pads and opened the bleeder nipple on the caliper in order to compress the caliper piston back far enough to install the new thick pads (big mistake!). This introduced air into the system which we can't seem to bleed out with one guy pumping the pedal and another going around to each wheel and opening the bleeder using a clear hose and catch jar etc. We've followed the factory manual's instructions regarding wheel order, etc. The mechanic at the dealer said he uses a power bleeder which works fine(!). We've bled them several times manually, but the pedal is still very (too) soft. We even bought a little vacuum hand pump bleeder which you use at each wheel, but it doesn't work any better. Is it possible to bleed this system without a power bleeder? My local dealer is so expensive, I hate to think about taking the van in to have them work on it. Were doing all the obvious stuff, like keeping the master cylinder full during the bleeding operation. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. BTW this is a '98 Plymouth Grand Voyager (same as Dodge Caravan & Chrylser T&C). I'm thinking of trying to lightly pressurize the master cylinder reservoir with my air compressor and see if that works. I think the problem is that the air bubbles move back up the brake line when you let off the pedal during the bleeding operation. Any thoughts? Help!

At times, I have spent over 30 to 45 minutes bleeding.

It sounds like something is not right. Too bad you don't live near me. I could look at it and figure out what the problem is. I might even have the parts you might need for your van. I'm on my 4th minivan and we have 17 others through-out the family. BIG family. You might want to have an expert near you look at it if it's giving you this much trouble. Sorry I couldn't help you more.

Ok, I'm assuming the flex hose bolts at the calipers were not touched. And just the bleeder screws have been cracked open at all 4 corners right? Also, assuming you are pumping and bleeding properly.........you mentioned doing this before!!
Ok, then, there is one other procedure you can try, but the conventional 2 person bleeding procedure should have worked fine?? Try this. Fill the resovoir and keep an eye on it throughout this procedure. Next, go to the right rear wheel cylinder/caliper and crack open the bleeder screw and just let the system gravity bleed!! Keep the resovoir topped up, and watch the flow of fluid from the bleeder. After a few minutes and no signs of bubbles, close the bleeder and go on to the left rear. Then to the right front, and then to the left front. The front calipers will have much greater flow than the rear bleeders. Once all 4 corners are done, try jumping on the brake pedal a few times and check it for hardness!!
I've used this and the conventional 2 man procedure many times successfully! Good luck!!