trinitro23

The time has come for my car to finally break down and strand me.
The car just died. I can try to restart it, and it will restart, run for a few seconds, then quit (act like it's out of gas). Pressing the gas pedal makes it worse. If (rare) I can get it to rev up above 3K rpm it will run fine (as long as I keep it above 3K.
After I got it towed I did some "testing" in my garage. If the engine is cold the car will run perfectly until the ECM switches from closed loop to open loop (or the other way around). The moment the coolant temperature reaches half way (on the not so precise gauge) the engine starts too miss and die. It is very difficult to restart while that point is hit. If I leave the car cool down for 1/2 hour or so it will again work ok until the "critical" point is reached again. One of the possible items that could cause this problem is the coolant sensor. However, it's not the coolant sensor that's at fault (since I changed it, and it behaves exactly the same).
I checked the spark, all cylinders are firing fine. Even when the engine doesn't want to start spark is still present. I ran for codes (by jumpering the TE1 and E1 terminals) and I got two codes. The check engine light is giving me a 31 code, and the O/D light is giving me a 63 (or perhaps 36?) code. According to AllData 31 is a MAP sensor problem (which is not cheap ). I'm having a hard time finding that sensor (I would think it's in the air filter housing, or close by), but the only sensor in the air filter box is a tiny 2 wire sensor (the MAP should have 3 wires). Will a MAP sensor caouse a stall/difficult start condition?

I couldn't find a way to decipher what the 63 code on the O/D light is.

Is there a particular trick in testing the MAP sensor? Which one is it? Is it the little tine one (with a vacuum hose and a 3 wire electrical connector) that's bolted on the firewall? I couldn't be sure.

trinitro23

Ok, I finally had the time to look at it this morning. Unfortunately things have taken a turn for the worse. Last time I worked on it (2 days ago) I was able to start it up just fine when cold, it will run well. Today it won't start at all. It doesn't even try. There is spark at all spark plugs. Trying to start it produces a strong odor of unburned gas, so gas should be present. I took out all 4 spark plugs, all of them had a gas smell to them. Other then that the color was normal. The 2nd one (from the distribuitor side) was drenched in gas, the other 3 only had a smell, they weren't very wet.
Any quick tips on what could be wrong? The two problems may not even be related, although I think they are. I will start on a full troubleshooting shortly (after breakfast )

ChewToy

Well you certainly sound very capable in doing a lot of troubleshooting/repairs yourself. I wish I were as talented because I'm having a hard time getting my camry fixed. My mechanic can't seem to get a handle on it. I have similar problems to yours, I have a 94 camry 2.2L with 160k miles and its developed some painfully expensive problems. It's has intermittent starting problems and had been stalling constantly. I had a used distributor put on and so far it hasn't stalled on me while driving again but it still has a starting problem. Turns over but just doen't start (no clicking noise present) after 2-4 attempts it starts but requires me to give it gas instantly or it'll die. Giving it gas and reving it a little to get rid of the "rough" start it seems to drive ok. Think it sounds similar to your problem.

Bossman

I did a little searching on the net so I hope this helps a little:

New spark plugs improve cold starting. Bad plugs are often responsible for many cold weather "no start" service calls. Many times the battery has been run dead while cranking the engine because plugs wouldn't light the fire. When the old plugs are removed and examined, they are often found to be worn or dirty. New plugs reduce the voltage requirements on the ignition system, which decreases the chance of misfire while leaving more amps for the starter and injectors.

Wet fouled plugs can also prevent an engine from starting, but in many instances the fouling problem has nothing to do with plug wear or neglect. If an engine is flooded with fuel while it is being cranked, gasoline can soak the plugs and bleed off the ignition voltage before it forms a spark. On fuel injected engines, wet fouling is less of a problem but can happen if a cold start injector leaks or there's a fuel calibration problem that creates an overly rich startup mixture. The cure in all cases is to wait for the plugs to dry out, or to remove the plugs and clean or replace them.

WET PLUG - a wet plug means the plug has not been firing. If not due to engine flooding, the problem may be a bad ignition cable (excessive resisitance, shorted or arcing). But wet fouling can also be caused by dirt or moisture on the outside of the plug that provides a conductive path to ground, or by an internal crack in the ceramic insulator that shorts the plug to ground.

WHEW!

ChewToy

What about warm starting problems? After the car has been warmed up and then sits for 5-10 minutes and has problems restarting. Any idea what that might be?

Updated 11/25/03 Ok it's been pretty cold in the mornings lately and I've been having problems starting. It took 5-6 tries this morning before it would start. Then it drove fine on the way to work. I immediately shut it off and tried to restart it and on the first try it didn't fire up and kept chugging away, on the 2nd try it started right up. I initially thought it was a warm starting issue. I'm at my wits end trying to figure this out. Anyone have any clues? I'm about to dump this car because it's now unreliable

camrytuner

have you tried replacing your starter? or your alternator?

ChewToy

UPDATE.. My car MAYBE fixed! I had them put in new spark plugs.. first thing we noticed was that all of them were very loosely screwed in. Secondly I had them replace my fuel filter. As soon as I pulled out of the garage and drove down the street,.. MY Y PIPE BROKE! It sounded like a damn lawn mower! I took it back and they just said.. "Don't you just hate cars!?" I'm thinking great!! I went back several hours later to find that he got me a USED one. Welded it on.. 20 bux lighter I left there and it's been starting up EVERYTIME since! I don't want to curse myself.. but the car feels like it's running A LOT BETTER! Maybe I won't have to get rid of her and get a new daily driver after all! PRAY FOR ME GUYS hehe. And for all those that are having problems similar to mine... check those two things. I guess in the end... all she may have really needed was a simple tuneup!? Time will tell.

Bossman

ChewToy - I guess maybe the new plugs and fuel filter did the trick...I hope....best of luck and happy motoring!

ChewToy

So far so GOOD. My camry has not failed to start since changing those things. It's been a little over 100 miles and she's still starting right up... BUT I'm now scared my tranny is going to have issues next. I don't know if it's the cold weather or what but it seems to be shifting really slow now. Reminds me of a slipping clutch. Does this mean it's ready to go? I have 160,000 mi's on it now and I don't know if / when the tranny fluid was ever changed. I bought it with 130,000 mi's so I'm guessing it could stand to have it done. Input?

jobuddha

I had to replace the tranny in my 94 when i hit 175K miles. Sounds like you have the same prob I had. From the time I first noticed the prob to the time it completely went out it was @3-4 months. As far as changing the fluid, mine completely died about 2 days after chaning fluid. Guy at garage said draining the fluid could have caused a bad part to shift causing the breakdown. I would change the fuild, but not plan on making any long trips for a week or so to see if prob goes away.

kryptonite_1976

*Trinitro23* The only way I know of to test a map sensor is to tap on it not super hard but hard enough and if it starts working fine then it is time to replace it...hope that helps