LA Times reporter wants your opinion

DanNeil · 11-08-2003, 03:22 PM

Hi guys,

I'm the car columnist for the LA Times. I just test drove the GTO and also just got back from SEMA this week. The car is a stout piece and I give GM a lot of credit for building it.

I want to write a story about the GTO and the aftermarket. As you all probably know, GM declined to provide specs on the car to the aftermarket guys, like SLP Engineering, in what seems like an effort to monopolize the GTO customizing business with its own tuner package ("AutoCross," is it?) due out next year.

You all also probably know SLP is ramping up to offer the Bobcat and Judge packages, in defiance of GM's claim on the Judge copyright. GM is not happy, but I've heard rumors that GM was going to capitulate on this. In any event, it's only a matter of time before other companies start offering GTO variants of their own.

Here are my questions:

What is missing in the new GTO -- what essential GTO-ness -- that aftermarket guys could supply? The car is amazingly non-descript now. Do you think that's intentional, so GM has room to zoot it up in subsequent optional packages? Is this the blank canvas?

Why do you think GM is being stingy with the GTO? At SEMA this week it seemed like every OEM was desperate to get a bigger piece of that $27 billion pie. And not just the OEM's. Galpin Motor, the biggest Ford delaership in the country, is opening a custom shop. They'll do all the work and put on all the parts, from seat covers to dubs, and finance it as part of your purchase price. Do you think GM's strategy will backfire, or will it be a good source of profit? I tend to think a lot of cool things come out of the aftermarket.

What do you think about the GTO styling?

Are there other companies that are good candidates to "rice-ify" the GTO. Like E&G, for instance?

I need people who are passionate about GTO -- multiple owners, those with their orders in -- willing to be quoted in the paper. So please send name and city to dan.neil@latimes.com with your responses.

Thanks guys.

SuPeRcAr_MaN · 11-08-2003, 08:36 PM

The only thing I really think the GTO is missing is the turn-your-head muscle car styling. It looks like anything else on the road. I would love some functional hood scoops, indented grills, and a dual exhaust with a pipe coming from either side of the car. As you can tell, all of these are styling cues. Nothing needs to be done with the performance, other than a 400 HP LS6 pakage offered by Pontiac. The new GTO at SEMA looked promising, there were triumphs and flaws. I can't wait to see what the aftermarket offers, and also what Pontiac will offer in the next years. This is supposedly a 3-year thing for GM, but if it sells well, which I think it will, they will keep 'em coming. I am looking forward to the SLP packages as well. I own a 1966 GTO, so my expectations were hire. However, the performance lives up to waht I expected and then some. It will be a true Mustang eater, but I don't like either car's styling more than the other. But it will get better both with aftermarket and in the years to come with Pontiac. GM's not stupid, and they will be going in the right direction with their modern muscle car.

I guess that pretty much sums up what you asked, but I am of course partial to the classic 60's GTOs...

Chris · 11-08-2003, 11:31 PM

First off, if the rumours of the cars power are true (low 5 second 0-60, 13.5 second quarter), then, it will have no trouble living up to the heritage of the GTO name. And keep it from flopping as horribly as the Slower-than-an-Accord-Marauder.

The car is based on Holden's from Australia, which are very good cars, and should be sold here. Australias general attitude towards cars is somewhere in between European and American tastes; which means it should be very appealing to people here looking for a car with European driving qualities, but at a more affordable price with a bit more room.
While not the type of car I would like to buy right out of University, it would hold appeal for me when I get to my 30's, and perhaps have a family to carry around. This car would be both eminently practical, and very fun to drive. Im very glad that a manual transmission is offered, as I personally will never buy a car with an automatic, unless it is a pure luxury car.

After seeing the concept interiors, I am extremely pleased. The layout is straightforward, and looks high quality. If they feel high quality, and last for longer than the duration of the warranty, it'll be an top-notch interior. As long as Pontiac is able to refrain from tacky plastic and shapes for the sake of shapes in the interior, of course.

The exterior styling is subjective. Im glad there is no typical gaudy Pontiac molding. However, I would like to see a small functional hood scoop (a shaker hood would be fairly awesome.) At least put in a hood bulge. Other than that, there isnt much that can be done on a large coupe, other than keeping it clean, which the GTO is.

All in all, I think that this is one of GM's best new products from the past few years.

KoRnboy · 11-09-2003, 09:39 AM

I'll be blunt, GTO's were badass, and this one is just disgusting. For today’s technology I think for the money they could do much better performance wise and the styling is just horrid. This is one less buyer of this new "Muscle Car".

RedLightning · 11-09-2003, 02:09 PM

Are we talking about the concept or the production GTO? The concept is the ugliest car I have ever seen, but the production is a very nice car, maybe a bit bland, the 'old' dead Firebird is by far much better looking. The concept does though have "turn your head styling" just though in a bad way. GM should have used a different body style than the Holden and should have made a replacement for the Firebird. Oh if anybody rices the (production)gto ill kill them. You can only make the concept better though. the production gto would look terible with hood scoops on them and they should not put mitsu or mustang gt like hood scoops on it, they should put hood scoops on the next gto like the one on the concept! More hp would be a pluss also.

chrismerkle · 11-09-2003, 05:57 PM

i thinks thats some hot shiznit right there. the older one's were tight, but i like the new modern look. i cant wait to see what else the future brings.

hiphophomer · 11-09-2003, 07:28 PM

nice man that looks kick ass!if that woks good i hope they can also bring back the camaro.

Chris · 11-09-2003, 07:57 PM

Remember when you criticize the styling; GM isnt willing to spend a huge sum of money to create and manufacture an entirely different platform. Since its based on a Holden, it has potential for production (obviously). But, it has certain size requirements, and certain strong points in the structure that cannot be compromised. These hard points are compromises between the engineers and stylists; but since the original car has been made, the restyling has many restrictions.
And its a large coupe; a very difficult design challenge, as customers wont settle for a small interior caused by radical styling.
All in all, I think they did a good job with it.

Mighty Quinn IV · 11-10-2003, 02:26 PM

If you remember back to the original GTO"s Pontiac hopped it up and put some badges on a non-descript Tempest and produced the awesome GTO's. As the years went on Pontiac refined it and made it one awesome driving and cruising machineThe new one looks like the same blank page. Take a non-descript vehicle hop it up and then refine it. I personally like the looks of the new GTO and look forward to what will become of it in the years to come. Long live the GTO

Jack

Morning Wood · 11-10-2003, 02:40 PM

it looks like a mid 90's thunderbird. yuck. i like the interior though.

rcaddikt · 11-10-2003, 11:06 PM

Performance wise I think it's a great start. Styling wise I think they dropped the ball...big time! Ford and especially Dodge/Chrysler are having a field day with cars made with styling cues from the past. I don't see one thing relevant to previous GTO's in this car.

A hood tach would be the first thing on my list.

BullShifter · 11-11-2003, 10:21 AM

The new GTO(not concept) is bad ass - can't wait for the Judge.

Nothing will compare to the original GTO - Ferrari!

gtojack · 11-11-2003, 11:04 AM

Hey guys, I responded to Dan at the LA Times directly but thought you might be interested in seeing what I had to say...
- - -
Hey there Dan, I own a '67 GTO convertible (bought by my mom brand new in '67!) and saw your post at Automotive Forums. Interesting questions.

Firstly I have to admit that I ride the fence when it comes to 'tuner culture'. Sure it's modern hot rodding - but what made original hot rodders cool was that they were taking nothing or junker cars and turning them into something.

I can't quite get the concept of buying a new Civic and putting a bunch of lights and the wing off or a Cessna (if a Ferrari doesn't need one, neither do they) on it and somehow equating that with performance.

Now that said, there are indeed companies out there making aftermarket performance mods that are truly for performance - not looks. And realistically that's what Yenko and Bobcat and so forth did back in the 60s and 70s.

So from an aftermarket sense, I don't have a problem with GM not offering up the info to the aftermarket boys... that's what modification is supposed to be about... innovation!

Now the new GTO will be hot right out of the box. And if Aussie manufacturing protocols are upheld then it will be a very solid car indeed (remember that Holden is not only the most profitable affiliate of GM, but has one of the highest satisfaction/quality ratings).

However when it comes to styling GM dropped the ball big time. The new GTO is no Goat! It is mundane. GM could've taken the Monaro and done some interesting things to it stylistically... but they didn't. As a GTO aficionado I can only hope that the strategy is to get the car out, use the history yet appeal to a much younger crowd, and sell a bunch right away. In the process, see what kind of mods are being done and listen to what the 'old school' has to say.

One of the problems with all of the 'retro look' vehicles is that you can't really change them. What do you do to the PT Cruiser? the New Beetle? The Mini? once that style becomes tired?

With the New GTO coming out rather plain, GM has the opportunity to go through several iterations of models. We could see an upcoming model with modified headlights to give a stacked look and an elongated grill (to the thrill of the '65-7 crowd); there could be a mimic of the endura bumper and twin scoops (a al 68-70). Heck we could even see a bodywork redesign giving the car more of a trunk (may sound silly but look at the new Chrysler Hemi! That looks like a muscle car!!).

So I guess that despite the bland nature of the New GTO, it will endear itself through its performance. And gives GM the option to let the vehicle grow. With Lutz at the helm, you have to think that there has been more than just short term thinking at play.

Hope this helps.
Cheers, Jack.

DeViL · 11-11-2003, 03:25 PM

I have heard from Speed Vision TV that GM will be offering hood scoops for the GTO in the 2005 model. These scoops will resemble something to the look of the 64 GTO's nonfunctional hood scoops. If that happens then great because a GTO is not a GTO without the hood scoops.

Also as was previously said the dual exhaust pipes need to extend to both ends of the car, not just the left side. That is rediculous on Pontiac's part, as you see all of Pontiac's other models Grand Am, Firebird, Grand Prix, Bonneville, even the Sunfire has a "dual exhaust" looking setup.

A new bright orange Judge would be nice from SLP but I agree that should be the right of Pontiac and GM to decide. The Judge was kind of like the SS model is to Chevrolet, and if Pontiac wants to make a new Judge, that should be their decision and not some aftermarket company.

Also the price is a problem. It seems that this GTO is going to be a few more thousand then a fully loaded Trans Am. They should have a more basic model of this GTO for the people who can't dish out that kind of money. Cloth seats or just plain black leather, none of the fancy guages and stitching, no aluminum interior pieces, keeping the cost down would make this car a little more successful. I have a feeling because of that price that Pontiac isn't going to sell as many as they would like.

SuPeRcAr_MaN · 11-11-2003, 08:39 PM

I heard about the hood scoops, but I was hoping they would be functional. I hope at least they look good... I agree on the exhaust, if you make a car have true dual exhausts, make it look like it does too. About the Judge, it's Pontiac's fault they can't make it. They should've help on to the name and not let another company get their hands on it. But I think SLP's two packages will be very cool... I still hope Pontiac makes a 400+ HP LS6 GTO option. About the price, it is pretty low considering the performance and luxurious interior. I would be happy if they made a lower-cost option, most of the money off from the interior, like you said. Make the spoiler an option as well. But with the price as it is, these things will sell, and Pontiac should keep making them after the proposed 3 years.

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