Camaro VS Firebird


MarxZ/28
11-04-2003, 10:44 AM
This may be an age old comment or question, but here goes. Why is it that many firebird owners can not accept the fact that if they race against a camaro...(Within the same category..ex. v6's/v8's SS/WS6 z/28/trans am) it would be the drivers race. I know a kid with a 95 trans am..6 speed and claims he has never lost a race (Street race) to a Z/28 and also claims that he can actually run with the F-body SS. I may believe that he has never lost a race to a Z/28 because as i said earlier it would be a drivers race...but I tell him he's full of shit when he claims to be able to run his stock trans am with an SS. I have a 96 z/28 6 speed and have lost to other f body z/28s..and have beaten them...same with firebirds. Also...this kid always backs down when I egg him on to race me :eek7: :sunglasse
Tell me what you think, and am i wrong in realizing that firebirds and camaros are basically the same exact car.
Thanks alot :smokin:

Chevyracincamaro
11-04-2003, 03:40 PM
they are essentially the same car, the firebird was brought out by pontiac in response to the camaro so maybe its a grudge thing...next time he tries to tell you something just tell him he wouldnt be driving it if it werent for your z28

BlkCamaroSS
11-04-2003, 08:55 PM
I've heard that several times from pontiac guys against chevy guys, but I never hear it the other way around. I say whenever someone makes a remark like that, make him prove it against your own car :naughty:

MarxZ/28
11-04-2003, 10:29 PM
I've heard that several times from pontiac guys against chevy guys, but I never hear it the other way around. I say whenever someone makes a remark like that, make him prove it against your own car :naughty:

Yea good call SS. Do you have any personal experiences that involve you goin against a bird? SS's are so badass :2cents:

big_sam_2004
11-04-2003, 11:29 PM
they are essentially the same car, the firebird was brought out by pontiac in response to the camaro so maybe its a grudge thing...

IMO yea they're the same car, but i dont think its a grudge thing, I think it was just a way for GM to make more profit off of the same car with a different body style!

big_sam_2004
11-04-2003, 11:34 PM
and another thing, its kinda off topic, mabye its just me, but i have seen no anniversary firebirds/trans ams (whatever, 2 many names for one car) whereas there is one for camaro every 5 yrs. i saw this one on the net a while ago, it claimed to be a 25th anniversary, and it was a 94, but from my understanding, the camaro and firebird started the same year, so that would be a lie, but other than that, no anniversary cars, anybody know why?

MarxZ/28
11-05-2003, 09:32 AM
and another thing, its kinda off topic, mabye its just me, but i have seen no anniversary firebirds/trans ams (whatever, 2 many names for one car) whereas there is one for camaro every 5 yrs. i saw this one on the net a while ago, it claimed to be a 25th anniversary, and it was a 94, but from my understanding, the camaro and firebird started the same year, so that would be a lie, but other than that, no anniversary cars, anybody know why?

Yea I have no clue :eek7: I was also a little shocked to see that the last camaros dont have any kind of special edition insignia...like 'Goodbye' or 'So long' maybe because (hopefully) GM is just waiting for a perfect 5th gen camaro blueprint to be created...then chevy will rule even more...muhahahhaha MUHAHAHAHHAHA

BlkCamaroSS
11-05-2003, 11:29 AM
All the 35th badging when on the 35th LE SS's in 2002. I'd love to get my hands on one of those...

As for my experience racing TA's, I have no problem with LT1 TA's. They get a good launch with me, but I just pull on them on the top end. Same old, same old.

As for an LS1 TA, I've not been fortunate enough to race one. All of my buddies are heavily modded (LS6 conversions, TQ converters, Powerdyne Supercharger, as well as a few others). If I were to come across one that was modded similar to mine, I'd run him in a heartbeat to find out...

pre
11-05-2003, 04:53 PM
This is so dumb they are they are same car.

I saw a 30th anniversary Trans Am in person and I just stared at it for about 15 minutes wishing it was mine. The last year TA special edition yellow with screaming chicken are kinda ugly.

MarxZ/28
11-06-2003, 09:17 AM
As for an LS1 TA, I've not been fortunate enough to race one. All of my buddies are heavily modded (LS6 conversions, TQ converters, Powerdyne Supercharger, as well as a few others). If I were to come across one that was modded similar to mine, I'd run him in a heartbeat to find out...[/QUOTE]

Yea I hear ya. good times

73superduty
11-07-2003, 12:27 PM
Funny, this discussion was brought up last night amongst my group a frineds.
We all seemed to agree that in most cases the Firebird seemed to oust the Camaro.
Surmising the same as you guys, the two cars are identical and it should come down to the driver.
Most road tests use the same guy to run each car, and in most of those cases the Firebird was tenths faster all the way around.
Not trying to start anything here, but this was just a group of us that get together on Thursdays and talk.
I think some detailed searching would yield some intersting results.
Stock for Stock, and I am biased, I would take the Trans Am.
Chris

DeViL
11-07-2003, 03:17 PM
I lost to a red 3rdgen Camaro 305 with my Firebird :lol:.

It was pretty sweet though he pulled up to me next to me and at the same time we said to each other "nice car". Two bright red 3rd gen f-bodies riding side by side, both cars in good condition, and I'm guessing his was stock as well he even had the stock exhaust. He guns it a second later I gun it. That 305 pulled pretty good but after a couple seconds are slowly began to creep up to him. He let off before I got near him though since he had to turn into his neighborhood, so I lost. Race only lasted for like 5 seconds but still cool as hell.

That doesn't have to do much with the 4th gen F-bodies, so eh yeah I agree though Firehawk vs SLP SS, Trans Am vs SS, Formula vs Z28, V6 vs V6, there isn't a damn difference.

CamaroSSBoy346
11-08-2003, 09:55 AM
"the camaro and firebird started the same year"

Camaro = 1967
Firebird = 1968

73superduty
11-09-2003, 12:11 AM
"the camaro and firebird started the same year"

Camaro = 1967
Firebird = 1968

Camaro introduced in 67 as well as the Firebird.
Chris

camarofed
11-10-2003, 06:46 PM
Hey guys, I used to have a firebird until I got serious and decided to go with real man power. I wanted to pass this information on to all of you about a camaro performance shop that I do business with in Houston that have great parts at outrageous prices. I just bought Chrome Z06 Rims for $825 and they are having a 15% moving sale and I want you all to get good deals on all of your performance needs.

Tell Mike Williams that Josh sent you and they might give you a even better deal!
camaroperformanceconcepts.bravehost.com

Thanks
Josh

BlkCamaroSS
11-10-2003, 10:19 PM
Were they 18x9.5 and 18x10.5 Z06 rims???

camarofed
11-11-2003, 07:58 PM
They are 18 X 10

BlkCamaroSS
11-11-2003, 10:51 PM
I'm gonna get some of those somewhere down the line :icon16:

camarofed
11-12-2003, 11:48 AM
They are so sweet, the only reason I bought them was because they had them so cheap!! Anyways goodluck with your car

BlkCamaroSS
11-12-2003, 12:01 PM
Likewise :sunglasse

DVS LT1
11-12-2003, 01:22 PM
Back in the day the consensus was that Firebird Formula's (especially automatics with performance shift) were the fastest F-Bodies. Formula's were typically lighter than Z28's and T/A's, and being the budget car in the family were often purchased without leather seats and other weight increasing options.

The Z28-Forumula-T/A are mechanically identical cars with slight differences in body panels and interior design.

The same can be said when comparing Z28 to SS and V8 Firebird to Ram Air/WS-6 models. They are virtually identical cars with the latter having a free flowing ram air intake, exhuast, and suspension upgrades - all good for a bit extra rear wheel horsepower, but thats all. The egines in all models are identical ('93 to '97 LT1, '98 to '02 LS1).

This kid is not bullshitting if he says he's running with '96 SS/Ram air models - the ONLY difference between '95 and ram air '96 models in those years was the bloody hood and air box, good for 10 claimed HP from the flywheel I believe? Big deal.

However, the kid is pretty gullible if he thinks his T/A is faster than Z28's - if he knows they are identical cars and still believes it then he's just a moron. PROVE THE FUCKER WRONG MAN! You can do it - that kid is driving the heaviest F-Body trim from that area. You should have a slight advantage in weight right off the bat. Gear ratio will also make a difference. Back in '95 I don't think the option for the 3.42 gears was available (I think the six speeds came with 3.23's or something). Nevertheless, whoever has the numerically higher gear ratio will have the advantage in a drag race. Find out what gears he's running (as well as yourself!)

Less weight is better, but not necessarily. Depending on your launch technique more gas in your fuel tank may help your rear wheels hook up better. Temperature also affects performance - your tires won't hook up for shit when the weather gets colder. Here's a trick: take your tire pressure down to like 26 or 24 PSI before you roll out on a cold night to hunt that prick down!

The race will probably all boil down to shifting though.

MarxZ/28
11-12-2003, 04:13 PM
The same can be said when comparing Z28 to SS and V8 Firebird to Ram Air/WS-6 models. They are virtually identical cars with the latter having a free flowing ram air intake, exhuast, and suspension upgrades - all good for a bit extra rear wheel horsepower, but thats all. The egines in all models are identical ('93 to '97 LT1, '98 to '02 LS1).

Yea I can see what your'e sayin...the SS is pretty much a higher performance/horsepower/torque version of the Z/28. But to be honest with you, the f-body SS's stock can put a good hurtin on stock Z/28s. I haven't beat one yet :uhoh: and i doubt i will..unless i mod. I have raced an SS 6 times, 4 of those times against the same SS. (Stock) I can stay in range with em..but cant keep side by side..or nose to rear. The LS1 is dangerous... :ylsuper:

DVS LT1
11-12-2003, 04:42 PM
Yea I can see what your'e sayin...the SS is pretty much a higher performance/horsepower/torque version of the Z/28. But to be honest with you, the f-body SS's stock can put a good hurtin on stock Z/28s. I haven't beat one yet :uhoh: and i doubt i will..unless i mod. I have raced an SS 6 times, 4 of those times against the same SS. (Stock) I can stay in range with em..but cant keep side by side..or nose to rear. The LS1 is dangerous... :ylsuper:

There is a "Reply with quote" botton eh.

Each car is built differently (this goes for all makes & models). Some are put together terrific, some are lemons, and some are ringers. SS # 3255 could be a well put together car built on a Wednesday afternoon and SS # 5991 could be a total piece of shit (same goes for Z28 sku's).

Getting back to the differences between SS & Z28, T/A & WS-6, its not impossible for a Z28 or T/A to beat out (marginally or badly) a ram air model - depends on the year, the car, and the driver. There's different tires, gear ratios, and other discrete options floating around out there that you can't see with an SS or Z28 emblem.

ChevyCatfish
11-12-2003, 05:08 PM
Some of you guys suprise me. You should know GMs hp rating of the fbodies after 97 are incorrect. The 305 hp rating for a z/28 and and the 320 hp rating for an SS are crap. On a brake dyno, the z/28, the SS, and the c5 will all make the same power from the motor, 350hp. The are all the same motor, and tuned down none. Same goes with the birds. In 01 and 02, the motors got the intake manifold from the ls6, as well as freer flowing exhaust manifolds, so all ls1 applications those years make more power. Other than that, all the ls1 powered cars are equal. The only reason the vette is any faster than an fbody is because it is lighter, and more aerodynamic. However, the fcars are not that far behind the base c5. Take a trip over to www.ls1.com, or www.ls1tech.com, and check out some stock dyno sheets. z28s, SSs, formulas, firehawks, transams, and ws6s all dyno roughly the same. 300-315rwhp for 98-00, and 310-325 rwhp for 01 and 02. Many fbodies even dyno alittle higher than c5 vettes, as the vettes irs can soak up the few hp the true dual system it has gives it. It is a very real possibility that a z28 can bring down an SS, or a trans am can bring one down as well. Truth be told, a stripped down no option z28 would run down a SS model of the same year, just because of the weight difference. The only thing the SS does better than a z is handle, and some can argue it looks better.

As far as camaros and firebirds being different, the kid is an idiot. They are exactly the same. The truth of the matter is, birds usually weigh in alittle more, but not enough to tip the scales in the maro's favor. Everything that DVS LT1 said was right on the money.

BlkCamaroSS
11-12-2003, 05:15 PM
Not to be an ass, but you got the hp ratings for the SS wrong... :2cents:

ChevyCatfish
11-12-2003, 05:24 PM
Not to be an ass, but you got the hp ratings for the SS wrong... :2cents:

I guess I did, but at the same time I didn't. In 98, 99, and 2000, the z/28 was rated 305 and the SS was rated 320. In 01 and 02, after GM introduced the ls6 manifold as standard for all ls1 motors, they boosted the rating for the z to 310 and for the SS to 325. In the end, its doesn't really matter anyway, as both of the ratings are far from accurate.

MarxZ/28
11-12-2003, 06:28 PM
As far as camaros and firebirds being different, the kid is an idiot. They are exactly the same. The truth of the matter is, birds usually weigh in alittle more, but not enough to tip the scales in the maro's favor. Everything that DVS LT1 said was right on the money.

Thanks for all the info catfish and DVS LT1. All info on camaros is greatly appreciated by me. BlkCamaroSS..ive seen a lot of your posts and your body of knowledge about camaros, engines, exhausts, trannys, etc. is pretty amazing. since if joined this forum ive seen you, and a lot of other people, talk about slp loudmouth exhaust. I've been wanted to switch from FM to borla, but slp sounds like a great exhaust for the money. Will it help out on gas at all?

DVS LT1
11-12-2003, 07:50 PM
The highest published HP rating for a fourth gen F-Body I've ever seen was on a 2002 black M6 Firehawk convertible - 345 Horsepower - right on the factory sticker.

ChevyCatfish
11-12-2003, 10:07 PM
Yeah, SLP offered the "345hp" option on their SSs and firehawks. I saw the option on an SS. All it was was a factory loudmouth catback exhaust system and a high flow slp lid.

BlkCamaroSS
11-12-2003, 10:36 PM
Yup, SS's could have 345 hp too in 2002, contrary to the popular belief that the Firehawk was the do all, end all. My SS was a 335 hp-optioned SS in 2001...

As for the LM, I don't know if it would save you money on gas or not. I've not ever really paid attention to that, to be honest. I'm just head over heels in love with the sound. IMO, far beyond that of Flowmaster, Borla, Corsa, etc. I've heard them all, and so have many others, and I continue to get the best compliments on my sound :sunglasse

ChevyCatfish
11-13-2003, 08:43 AM
BlackSS, short of a true dual exhaust setup, I am in complete agreement with you. The loudmouth catback is one of the best sounding setups for an fbody in my opinion. It does kind of rasp pretty bad though with no cats on, which can be pretty annoying.

BlkCamaroSS
11-13-2003, 09:49 AM
I've not had the experience with that though, but I will in the future once I get my LT headers :)

Psychot1cone
03-15-2004, 10:54 PM
i saw someone say that camaros and trans ams were started the same year....not true...the camaro's first year was 1967, and though the firebird was also available in 1967, the trans am's first year was not untill 1969...hence why aniversry editons for the trans am are for instance 1984 15th, 1999 30th, etc instead of being the same years as the camros...dunno if this was addressed...but i figured it should be though

cheers :)

matt_SS
03-16-2004, 09:17 PM
All the 35th badging when on the 35th LE SS's in 2002. I'd love to get my hands on one of those...

As for my experience racing TA's, I have no problem with LT1 TA's. They get a good launch with me, but I just pull on them on the top end. Same old, same old.

As for an LS1 TA, I've not been fortunate enough to race one. All of my buddies are heavily modded (LS6 conversions, TQ converters, Powerdyne Supercharger, as well as a few others). If I were to come across one that was modded similar to mine, I'd run him in a heartbeat to find out...


I got a stock '99 ss and I've raced a couple of lt1 camaros and yeah there no problem. I also got a friend with a stock '98 trans am WS6 and I've raced him 3 or 4 times and beat him every time. But the last one I only beat him by a half a car length i think that it all depends on the driver.

z28 boy
03-16-2004, 09:35 PM
Wel i just thought i would throw in my 2 cents. I have never lost periods that stangs and all f-bodys.
There is one guy in my town who i havent raced. his ride is a 98 SS and he is like 50 years old. ANy way no one wants to race him cause at the track he can get his front wheels to lift just bearly off the ground. While its not real high none of us can do it. I would still race him if he would want to but he bearly even drives the car. My ride is 00 z28. I have beat the 02 Z28 with no problem.

PhiberOptik
03-17-2004, 12:20 AM
The TA weighs a lil less maybe? That could be the only reason it's faster

caw333
03-17-2004, 03:27 AM
my :2cents: is that these are the same motors and basicly the same cars so ther isn't any differance in performance. I've never heard anyone say that they where going to buy a Trans-Am over a Z28 cause its a faster car or vise versa.

Joseph1082
03-17-2004, 01:40 PM
i agree, but my friend w/ a firebird has said they are a little heavier.

Rafterman
11-07-2006, 10:01 AM
how can you say you never hear camaro guys talking sh!+ about the firebird. my uncle has an 80 z28 and he thinks its faster than my 68 bird. i get it all the time from camaro guys who think they got the best car in the world. this is why you can't talk to camaro guys about cars. the only word you'll be able to make out is camaro. not saying there aren't the few firebird rednecks out there but they seem to be less closeminded then chevy guys

666_speed
11-07-2006, 10:22 AM
I doubt you'll get anywhere with that comment, seeing as the argument was over 2 and a half years ago.

DVS LT1
11-07-2006, 12:13 PM
Damn automatic email notification!!! Why can't AF automatically unsubsribe us to ancient threats - or automatically close them.

2.5 years!! LOL :loser:

666_speed
11-07-2006, 12:17 PM
That would be neat, any thread over say, 6 months, should become automatically locked.

Dyno247365
11-07-2006, 04:27 PM
Why isn't this closed? WHORE TIME!!!

Dyno247365
11-07-2006, 04:29 PM
Btw your argument sucks, we're not closeminded

666_speed
11-07-2006, 04:38 PM
Agreed, any fbody enthusiast knows that they are basically the same cars other than body.

Mr. Luos
11-07-2006, 04:45 PM
Glad I missed this back then.
Tons of bad info.

Anyways....locked.

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