Engine Upgrade For my Civi

I just got a 98 Honda Civic LX and I want to sink a new engine in it. I was wondering if it would be better to buy a block and build a new engine or to buy an engine already put together. If you would recomend buying a new engine, where is a place I could get one and what name would you choose. If you recomend building an engine, what are parts you would use and where could I get them. Any information about engine performace would be very helpful. Thanks a bunch.
Bryn

just buy a whole motor.. its not worth just getting the block unless you have the other parts laying around some where. There are tons of shops online that sell JDM and USDM motors. Just do a search for things like "B16 complete changeover" or "honda motors" or whatever youll find plenty to keep you busy for a while.

What would you recomend to look for in size of the engine and everything? I plan to build the engine to take 20 pounds of boost.

20 pounds of boost is alot. with that much power, your pistions might just shoot out the top of the hood. haha.

Built properly, you will have no trouble holding your 20 pounds of boost. I am wary of anything bearing the JG name, but apparently their crate engines are top notch (according to a very knowledgeable source) and are ready to take on 30 psi of boost right out of the box. That might be a good start. Otherwise, I'd recommend getting an engine and resleeving it with Golden Eagle sleeves. These are warrentied up to 60 psi of boost (at least for the B16A they are). A good source for JDM engines is this number: 1-800-338-soko (7656). Ask for Keiko.

What kind of engine are you looking to get? B16A (Civic Si/Civic Del Sol VTEC), B18C1 (Integra GS-R), B18C5 (Integra Type R), H22A (Prelude), or combination engine (one of the sweetest combos is a B20 block with B17A crankshaft and either a B16 or B18 head - although it is a pricey one)? Ask more questions is you need. I just built a boost-worthy motor myself, so I've already traveled many of these roads.

What are the prices of those engines and which one would you recomend? Also, what kind of turbo charger would you recomend?

The price of the engines can really depend on thier condition. they can range anywhere from 1500-3500. If you want tranny, ECU, etc, it'll go for more in the higher range. I like HKS turbos. HKS is a big company, and they are reliable. However, since the company is based overseas, turbo kits would be extremely expensive. I also like Greddy turbos. Just as reliable, but alittle cheaper.

How much are the Geddy turbo chargers and are they capable of putting 60 pounds of boost into an engine. Also, where could I find a dealer for the Geddy turbo's. How much more expensive are the HKM turbo's? Also, does the cost stay about the same among sizes of turbo's or does it drastically change? Also, can you put an Integra engine or any of the other's into a civic? Are they interchangable. Would I have to get a new transmission? Thanks for all the input, this is soo helpful.

The engines are mostly interchangeable. Some combinations will work with no problem, some will require a custom mounting kit to make the conversion. I've got a spreadsheet (too much work to post it) listing some combinations and their relative compatibility. Greddy turbo chargers are I believe just about the only street legal turbo system available, but I think that is really only an enforced in California, so in Texas that should not be a concern. I think as long as you pass emissions, you are all set. I certainly know of street legal cars in CT that pass emissions with turbos other than Greddy.

As for the transmissions, stock Honda trannies are remarkably stout. You might blow a transmission every so often, but in general they are very capable of taking the tremendous torque levels generated by turbocharging. And you can get engines much, much cheaper than that. Well under a thousand, which is what I recommend doing. Get yourself a high mileage motor, as for serious boost levels you will be replacing the pistons, connecting rods, and cylinder bores via resleeving. With the exception of the crankshaft and bearings, this essentially will give you a new engine.

I would not mess with smaller turbo systems like the Greddy since you seem to be serious about serious boost levels. You will want to check into larger caliber turbo systems like those available from Rev Hard, Turbonetics, and giants like HKS. You should look into spending say $3,000 to $4,000 for all your turbo system parts (not including labor), as you will need the turbo itself, waste gate, blow off valve, turbo timer, boost controller, intercooler, turbo exhaust manifold, and plumbing to connect all the necessary components. For serious boost levels like you want to run, I’d get a high flow intake manifold as well, like those made by STR (these run about $1,000!).

As for 60 pounds, I can say confidently that you are not going to want to run that much boost. There are turbos out there capable of putting out that much boost, and engines equipped to take it, but that is some serious power. For contrast sake, Ed Bergenholtz, who has one of the fastest Hondas in the world, was only using 26 pounds of boost when he was running approximately 9.8-second quarter mile passes (that’s 720 horsepower!). You are not going to want to get anywhere near the 60 pound level.

I don’t know all the details on turbos, since I have a supercharger and have not traveled all the avenues of researching turbo systems. I know a guy that can get all the turbo stuff you need, but there are a lot of avenues to travel for getting your system set up, probably places closer to you in Texas. Let me know if you want the 411 on my contact, however. I hope this helps to answer more of your questions.

The best motor to put 20 lbs of boost through I would have to say is a B18B, non VTEC, integra LS motor. You can pick them up pretty cheap and they are the best motor to handle a ton of boost. I have a friend from another honda site that pushed 30 lbs through is B18B to see if it would take it and it did. (Granted he didnt drive it daily like that, it was a on shot thing, hes getting ready to rebuild it again and wanted to see how strong it was.) The only thing that happend when he did this was he blew the electrodes off his 99c autolite sparkplugs. Theres your proof that the engine can handle huge amounts of boost, and yes the motor already has a block guard and JG pistons and eagle rods and some other stuff done to. He is running a DRAG turbo kit. I agree dont run a Greddy kit if you want to push 20 lbs. I dont think youll ever find a turbo/motor combo in a civic thatll hold 60lbs of boost.. I wouldnt even think in those realms.. if you can hold 30lbs youll be the top dog. You will probably want to go with a T3/T4 turbo. Revhard, DRAG, FMAX are very good kits. Even the Greddy Integra kits are only 18G Turbos so you probably wont get anymore then about 18lbs of boost out of them.

If your going turbo.. I say go B18B.. It fairly cheap since its non VTEC and nobody want them really.. Everyone wants the B18C. you can pick the whole change over up for about 2000-2500..

What do the high level intakes do that the regular ones don't? Do you have any site's you'd recomend looking at for this stuff and do you have any sites that you buy from? This is so helpful thank you guys so much.

The high flow intake I recommended really doesn't yield any power except with a turbo running high boost levels. It just allows more air into the cylinder head. It's a pretty simply concept, really.

Hey, heads up for a private message from me :D

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that Racing Rice's advice about the B18B non-VTEC engine is a good call. Remember that when you get a certain boost level with any form of forced induction, you will want to disable VTEC as it actually will cause your motor to lose power. This is a fairly torquey and durable motor to work with - a good move especially for turbocharging applications. But if you are not as worried about saving money, go for a B20 or H22A.

What are the "sleeves on an engine" and about how much are the B20 engines?

Each cylinder has a "bore," or the space where the piston moves up and down. The stock Honda bores and fairly thin, made of a high-silica-content aluminum. This provides decent strength, and is fairly brittle. A good, solid iron bore, which would be installed by removing the stock aluminum bore by cutting around it and putting the new iron bore in place is thicker, stronger, and I believe less brittle, which is a positive attribute (and I believe the reason why iron is actually preferable to steel in this application).

As for the B20's I believe the going rate these days, just for the block, is perhaps $1,100. Once people find a good combination (like the B20 block with B17A crankshaft), everybody wants them and their prices get gouged. You can try to find them cheaper, or maybe even bore out a B18B block to make it into a B20 (B18B bore = 81 mm/B20 bore = 84 mm).

The block on the top is a Honda B16A engine with stock cylinder bores. The block on the bottom is a Honda B16A refitted with Golden Eagle ductile iron sleeves.
http://members.aol.com/kris94g20/stockbore.jpg http://members.aol.com/kris94g20/goldeneaglebore.jpg

IMO if you have the time and $$$ and really want to get 20PSI of boost.

build an engine from scratch, get the block, aftermarket forged pistons and rods, maybe titamium springs/retainers, etc etc etc........ you get the point. cause if you buy an used engine and want to replace parts you gonna throw the money away

.... everything from scratch, cause you dont know what they did to the used engine.
if you build a new engine you'll know what you have, you can put sleeves on the sucker that way it will take the 20PSI which is a lot BTW.

if you dont wanna go thru the hasle of building a new engine then i say get a B18 NON-VTEC, i dont know know the code cause i dunno much about hondas small dis engines.

that was just my opinion :D

If you buy a used engine, get NEW forged pistons and rods, replace the sleeves, and get new bearings, then from the block's perspective, you have a new engine, save for the crankshaft. Only if the block had a spun bearing before, or something that would cause you to throw a rod, or something else that would damage the block all the way through to the outside of the block, would I recommend not getting a used engine. As for the head, if you replace the valve springs and retainers, and inspect the cams and valves themselves, then the head will also be fine. I don't care if it had 1,000,000 miles from drag racing. If you replace the parts above, your engine will be fine and as good as new.

Originally posted by JD@af
If you buy a used engine, get NEW forged pistons and rods, replace the sleeves, and get new bearings, then from the block's perspective, you have a new engine, save for the crankshaft. Only if the block had a spun bearing before, or something that would cause you to throw a rod, or something else that would damage the block all the way through to the outside of the block, would I recommend not getting a used engine. As for the head, if you replace the valve springs and retainers, and inspect the cams and valves themselves, then the head will also be fine. I don't care if it had 1,000,000 miles from drag racing. If you replace the parts above, your engine will be fine and as good as new.

I agree... If your going to do a swap just get the complete change over itll be a ton cheaper then buying all new parts.. Then change what you want and leave what you dont need to change.

Awesome, now all I need is money. Just a random question here, what is so special about projector headlights. How are they different from regular headlights?

Projectors are really just for looks. they really don't do anything. What they are suposed to do, is increase lighting by concentrating the beam into a smaller lense, but they don't really work too well.

Originally posted by Swonder67
Projectors are really just for looks. they really don't do anything. What they are suposed to do, is increase lighting by concentrating the beam into a smaller lense, but they don't really work too well.

My friend has a set on his eclipse and the are worse then stock.. He get real hot and they melted the caps that go on the back of the headlights.. I dont know if anyone has had problems with the civics doing that or not.

I have a friend that had to replace his aftermarket headlight bulbs in his Integra at least 3 or 4 times a year :eek:

Which bulbs is he using.. PIAAs are really good, but you pay for them.. They lasted years in my friends teg, never had a problem with them.

Another question. My friend was saying that I'd have to upgrade my suspension in order to handle the power from forced induction. What kind of stuff would I need to replace and roughly how much does it cost?

Originally posted by GuitarManiac101
Another question. My friend was saying that I'd have to upgrade my suspension in order to handle the power from forced induction. What kind of stuff would I need to replace and roughly how much does it cost?

The only reason you would want to replace your suspension is because you will probably be going faster. Its not something you have to do if you keep in mind that you still have stock suspension when going around a corner. The other advantage to aftermarket suspension is itll be a little stiffer which will help you keep a little better traction on take off since you have more power, again not something that has to be done but will help a little.

If you do decide to for suspension, just some good aftermarket springs and shocks will be enough. unless you are going to be doing some crazy cornering then you can do Strut Tower Bars and swaybars too. It all depends on your driving. Dont forget about tires. If you still have stockers you may want to upgrade to a better tire if not a little larger wheel aswell this too will help you keep traction The price really depends on what you buy and where you get it from. If you look around you could probably get springs and shocks for about $500 for the set give or take some, depending on what brands you purchase. Same with the tires. Price will vary greatly depending on the brand you get and where you get them from.

Either way, you dont have to get new suspension if you decide to go with the Turbo first thats fine, then you can upgrade later. Just depends on how you drive.

Unfortunately my friend is using "el cheapo" headlight bulbs, hence the reason for the frequent replacements.

GuitarManiac101

RR's advice is exactly correct. I remember the first time I realized that I would need to replace my stock suspension. I took a curve on a backstreet at 80 mph with 6 psi of boost, and even though I had done the same thing pre-supercharging, it feels very different once you have all that extra torque behind your forward acceleration, and then you throw in a sudden jolt of lateral acceleration. I suspect the first time you do that, you'll be very quickly wanting a set of aftermarket shocks and springs (or a two-in-one coilover set).

What do you guys have to say about getting a wet kit turbo charger so I can also put NOS on my car? What should I do to the engine to prepare for that?

All depends on how much boost and how much nitrous you want to run.....

Originally posted by GuitarManiac101
What do you guys have to say about getting a wet kit turbo charger so I can also put NOS on my car? What should I do to the engine to prepare for that?

Honestly.. I personally wouldnt run anymore then about a 25 Shot dry, but thats me. Itll help you spool your turbo a little faster and help reduce some lag.

You cant run anything smaller then a 75 Wet..I dont think.

Is there such a thing as a wet kit turbocharger? I mean u can't run nitrous on a regular turbo?

Yes there is such a thing as a wet turbo kit. I've looked into them and I'm not sure of all the details but you can run NOS with it.

Can I put a B18b engine on a 5th gen tranny. Personnaly, would you go with a n/a b16a or a turbowed b18b?

Originally posted by Ktulu
Can I put a B18b engine on a 5th gen tranny. Personnaly, would you go with a n/a b16a or a turbowed b18b?


no, you can't put a tranny from a d-series engine on a b16a....I personally like both....I decided to take the hard route and go all motor b16a....i could boost 8lbs, run 12.99 and be done with it...but I decided low 13s all motor would be fun and a bit more interesting...not to mention, I can rub it in the face of people who think the b16a is shit pile for all motor:flipa:

What would you guys recomend doing for a clutch, what stage should I get. I want to get into agressive street racing. Also, what makes the b20 block so good and the b16a crankshaft so good. I'm trying to figure out what different about the different engines. Why are you recomending this paticular combo.

One other thing, earlier, coilovers were mentioned. What exactly are they? Would it be cheeper to do that or go with shocks and springs?

From what I've seen, generally coilovers usually seem to be more expensive than getting shocks and springs separately. I think either option is good. Click around, I've seen pages right here at AF that advertise Skunk2 coilovers with KYB shocks for $300!!! I am assuming that's the price each, because if they're selling a set of four for $300, that's an absolute steal!!

For the clutch, both ClutchMasters and ACT (Advanced Clutch Technology) make excellent clutches. I'd give CM the nod for the superior product, but you'll also pay.. I'd say generally 30 to 40% more for CM. You'll probably want Stage 1 or Stage 2 set-up (check my signature to see what I have in the way of a clutch - I'm very happy with what I have, by the way).

Now, engines. The reason for recommending the B20 block with the B17A crank (not the B16A crank) is that you get the biggest, most-torque-producing B series block with a crank, that along with the right connecting rods will yield an ideal* 1.75:1 rod:stroke ratio. Basically what rod:stroke determines is the amount of flex your connecting rods will experience in the course of each stroke. There are numerous debates about the importance of rod:stroke (R/S). One of the best Honda engines is, without argument, the B18C1 (Integra GS-R engine), which has a 1.58:1 R/S ratio, and yet it does very well at high rpm and under boost. But, if you can incorporate a better R/S ratio into the design parameters of your engine, it is always a good idea to do so. Rod:stroke ratio is a complicated debate, so let me try and find a link to give you more info on the topic:

http://www.theoldone.com/archive/crv-b20b-info-n-rod-stroke-ratio.htm
http://www.theoldone.com/archive/nitro_on_d16_rod_to_stroke_ratio.htm
http://www.theoldone.com/archive/piston-diameter-n-rod-stroke-ratio.htm

These are complicated readings, but I recommend taking a look at them. Do your best with them, and if you have more questions, we'll be here.

* The reason this is highlighted is that there is extensive debate surround whether the ideal rod:stroke ratio is 1.75:1, 2:1, or even 2+:1. It all depends on who you ask. Personally, I'm a believer in 1.75:1.

Would you recomend getting an aluminum fly wheel?

Ehhh... depends on whether you want to spend $300+ to get if you're lucky, I think about 4 horsepower to the wheels. They reduce friction and drivetrain parasitic drag by reducing weight of the componentry involved in routing power from the engine to the wheels. If you're going to go all-out, and don't mind shelling out the money, go for it. But generally speaking, if there are corners you want to cut for your project, this is one the first items I would choose to eliminate.

Oh, and if you do get lightened aluminum flywheel, it's ClutchMasters all the way.

What is a turbo timer exactly? Also, if you wanted to increase your top speed or maybe the acceleration in one gear is there a way to switch out gears in your transmission?

a turbo timer, depending on what options you get with it, will leave the turbo's going after you've driven and shut off the car so you don't have to sit in the car and wait for the turbos to cool. You can adjust the gear ratios

hey where can you get those golden eagle sleeves and how much do they run for? (they sound awesome)

Dude!! Your not bs'n on that van are you? That's is the coolest in the world. Me and my friend died laughing but that is damn fast. That is so fricken awesome. How much money have you put into it?

I didn't know the voyager motor could handle 200 shot of nitrous. If that van is for real, it really is the ultimate sleeper.

What is a suspension brushing kit and why would you want one?

Also, what kind of nitrous shot would you run with a turbo charger?

Originally posted by GuitarManiac101
Dude!! Your not bs'n on that van are you? That's is the coolest in the world. Me and my friend died laughing but that is damn fast. That is so fricken awesome. How much money have you put into it?

hahha...no its a joke, that vans a piece of shit

Originally posted by GuitarManiac101
Also, what kind of nitrous shot would you run with a turbo charger?

I wouldnt run any more then a 20 shot or so.. All your going to do is use it to spool up your turbos a little faster..

When you say a 50 shot or 100 shot, what exactly does the number stand for? Is that how much horsepower your adding?

Originally posted by GuitarManiac101
What is a suspension brushing kit and why would you want one? A suspension bushing kit generally uses polyeurethane bushings that replace the factory rubber bushings. They will stiffen up the ride and tighten handling somewhat. The kits aren't that expensive either, considering they provide a "good service." It's just that the installation is long and tedious.Originally posted by GuitarManiac101
When you say a 50 shot or 100 shot, what exactly does the number stand for? Is that how much horsepower your adding? I'm not exactly sure of the units nitrous systems use, but no, that does not correlate with the horsepower gains you should expect to see. However, I do know that it pertains to the volume of nitrous oxide you are introducing to the engine per shot.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, GM!! :D

Thanks for the help. Would you prefer a civic or a prelude if you had the pick? If neither, what would you prefer in that price range?

stock, you'd have to be an idiot not to take the prelude. but preludes are much more limiting cuz of their size so a civic would be a much better drag car. btw civics and preludes aren't really in the same price range

If your going turbo.. I say go B18B.. It fairly cheap since its non VTEC and nobody want them really.. Everyone wants the B18C. you can pick the whole change over up for about 2000-2500..

where can you get b18c for 2000-2500

Originally posted by GuitarManiac101
Thanks for the help. Would you prefer a civic or a prelude if you had the pick? If neither, what would you prefer in that price range? Since you'll probably be modding and wanting a fast car, go for the Civic. It's up to you if you'd prefer a little more weight in exchange for a little more luxury and price with an Integra.. which would be my choice, by the way, unless I was going all-out for a drag racing champion car. Then I'd get a CRX.

There is one other option: get an S2000, and swap out the power and drive trains for one from a Nissan Skyline (either an RB20, RB25, or RB26). This, built properly, will smoke any FWD Civic :D

hey guys i have a few questions if you dont mind..i am planning on getting a 94 civic ex (coupe) and right away since i want to turbo it eventually i figure the b18b would be a good choice but i have a few questions

1) where can i get one cheap

2) why is it better than the b18c1?

3) why are jdm motors cheaper than usdm?

4) i only want a mild set up (7psi-10psi) will i need to upgrade stuff like the radiator and head gasket and get an oil cooler?

5) i always hear the term "daily driver" does that mean putting on like 22-25k a year on your car cause i like to drive a lot and dont want to have my car spend a lot of time in the shop but i want a turbo!

6) what other type of prevenitive measures should i take to keep my engine in shape within reason i cant afford to get new pistons and stuff
(but like oil changes every 2000 miles, or tune ups every week stuff like that)

thanks in advane sorry so long

Hey its says Civi on the thread name! Only I drive a civi! ONLY ME! MY CIVI !!!!!!! :bloated: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=1007883