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Old 01-12-2009, 05:42 PM   #1
DOCTORBILL
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What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

The title says it all....

Can we start listing the symptoms and what one sees / hears/ feels, etc. ?

The experiences of our readers / participants would be nice.

...and how bad does it have to get before the manual transmission is unusable ?

DoctorBill

PS - We can start a separate thread for Automatic Transmissions....
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:06 AM   #2
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

Well in my case...


I bought the car with 63K on it. Seemed to shift ok, occasionally felt "funky" meaning it was a little sticky shifting into second.

Gradually it got so that I could shift up to 2nd ok but on the downshift I couldn't shift without nudging it upward to first and then downshifting.

Then that stopped working and I had to double clutch on both the upshift and the downshift. All these phases seemed to last about a month or so. And then finally I lost both 1st and 2nd altogether. And that's where it's at for this car now.

Interestingly, after almost a year of losing 1st and 2nd, I can now shift into first again. I think it's because the gears have simply rotated around to where they mesh again and it's only while the car is stopped that I can shift again. It's lasted about a month now and I'm starting to have to double clutch again so my luck is about to run out again.

This will be the third trans I need to fix LOL
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96 Geo Metro H/B 1.0 L, 5 sp, A/C 103K miles (165,762 KM)

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Old 01-13-2009, 07:56 PM   #3
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

Well, when I bought Christine, I knew about the dead cylinder, but also noticed a "Bearing noise" when driving. I went through the bearings on all 4 wheels after the engine rebuild and they were fine. I continued to drive it and noticed the noise was getting worse and also was occurring at idle

I decided to check the level and found it full. I drained the old fluid and examined it with a flashlight. I noticed the metal in the oil and knew it was a bearing inside the trans going out. I refilled with some Lucas and regular 80W90 gear oil and decided to run it till it was done. About 4000 miles later, I was afraid to drive it because the grinding noise was so loud. It almost sounded like the same sound the trans makes in reverse, but at all times including idle. When I drained it after it was pronounced dead, the metal chunks were quite extreme

I replaced the transmission............
http://geometroforum.com/topic/638772/
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:55 PM   #4
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

Damn! You are describing what I hear....

The noise is loud during idle and bad when I start it up on a cold day.

I'm not to the backing up gear noise yet, but it is slowly getting worse.

I want to record the sound and post it to PhotoBucket or ImageShack as
an mp3 file so folks can listen to it and tell if I am being too critical or what.

The more I know about a car, the worst I am about listening for odd noises !

I can't seem to relax - I am always thinking I hear something grinding or knocking.

It makes me crazy.

When I first ran my engine after rebuilding it - LORD ! I thought I was hearing
each part I worked on breaking or grinding....

If I was an airplane pilot, I'd probably be insane now...listening for the engine
to fail. After all, up there an odd noise can kill you - can't pull over and call AAA.

I'll try to find my microphone - I have an old tape recorder. My kids farted with
it and now I can't find squat anymore.

My little solid state RCA digital recorder doesn't seem to pick up sounds as well as tape does....
maybe if I use an external mic (?)

DoctorBill
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:39 AM   #5
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

I forgot I had this. A long while back I recorded the noise I had on my "new" metro. It has the idle noise with the clutch out. When I push the clutch in, the noise goes away. Interestingly it varies from time to time, from really loud to almost quiet. This vid is one of the badder moments:

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/...t=MVI_0607.flv


You might be able to get a cheap mic from Radio shack? Probably a standard 1/8 jack.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:26 PM   #6
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

That was the noise I had. It went away when the clutch was depressed or it changed sound. The bearings are the culprit which requires a rebuild or replacement.

DOCTORBILL, I do the same thing when I drive. I listen to the lifters and try to focus in on other sounds coming from the engine and basically "waiting for something to break", but after a while, you learn to install a nice stereo and forget about all the little noises. When the noises get loud enough to bother you (like the trans on yours now) then it's time to worry
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:05 AM   #7
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

John - "The Phoenix" makes a lot of 'road noise' but the transmission noise
I am hearing is mostly at idle when started up in cold weather.

Listening to way's audio (I was able to save it to my hard Drive as an flv file)
I don't think mine is all that bad - yet.

I will endeavor to record it, however, and place it on PhotoShop, ImageShack or
Alkaspace for all to hear.

DoctorBill
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Old 01-15-2009, 01:25 AM   #8
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

i would go to the pull a part and grab a tranny out of a metro and either take it apart and rebuild it then install when yours goes bad or put it in and then rebuild yours
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:19 AM   #9
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

Crvett69 - I was quite seriously thinking of doing just that for The '93 Phoenix, when Hugemoth said that
I should be careful because one has to match the engine to the Transmission by Gear Ratios.

How difficult is it to replace Transmission's Bearings?
"Also, these transmissions are available with several different gear ratios,
so if you do get a used one, be sure it's the right one for your car."
01-09-2008, 10:38 AM - Hugemoth

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...t=transmission

No one refuted what he said, so I figured he was correct.
My Metro is a '93 3 cyl Hatchback - the commonest, basic Metro.

Then somewhere you had talked about Transmission "Codes"....

I realized that I am much too ignorant to be farting around buying transmissions
and blocks when I know squat about the subject.

So I decided to leave it alone because I didn't know where or what these gear ratios are -
what mine is or how to be sure and not buy the wrong transmission.

There was a '93 sitting in our Pull-n-Save with a manual transmission and a block
w/o the head all stripped out otherwise.

They sell the transmissions for $70 and the blocks for $50 - at least back then before
gasoline hit $4 a gallon.

Not to imply that anything is Hugemoth's fault.....I just got jumpy after that.

I may go back and do what you just suggested ! If anything is available hereabouts.

First - I have to get educated on Gear Ratios vs engines and KNOW WTF matches what....
I need to understand this business of matching Engine number/size/???
to Transmission gear ratios - and how you can tell from looking at the parts!

Imagine removing, transporting, rebuilding a Used Transmission for perhaps $300 total
on cost plus parts - working for a month, pulling mine out and finding the one I
rebuilt won't work with my engine.... The stuff of nightmares!

DoctorBill
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:57 PM   #10
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

there were 3 different manaul trannies available in the 89-94 metro. swift has different ones but we won't get into those. if you find a 89-94 metro it will have a 3.89 final ratio if its a xfi, better freeway mileage but a little less power on takeoff. normal tranny is a 4.10 ratio. if its a convertible it will have a 4.30, that is to make up for the 13" tires they put on the vert's. so you can run either a xfi tranny or a normal one in your car just fine, 95 and up had other ratios so stick with the 89-94 tranny if they have one
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Old 01-15-2009, 03:43 PM   #11
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

Any three cylinder transmission will work in your car, if it's the wrong ratio the engine will turn higher or lower rpms but nothing unusable. That 93 most likely has the exact same transmission as yours. A convertible or a 95 and up three cylinder will have the 4.39, you'll get much better acceleration and poorer mileage. An XFI will have the 3.79, sluggish acceleration and better mileage. The vast majority of 89 - 94 three cylinders had the gears you have now. Go get that $70 tranny and spend an afternoon plugging it in. If the second gear synchronizer is weak (a very likely possiblility) or the gears are way out of wack, get yours rebuilt and spend another afternoon putting it back. No matter what you do, put 2.5 quarts of Pennsoil Synchromesh in it, that's the best stuff for the synchronizers and mileage.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:20 AM   #12
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

The transmission bearings are very easy to replace. You still have to take apart the transmission but all you need is a bearing separator set, nothing special. The bearings are on the ends of the shaft, and in my case, popped off with no problems at all.
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:41 AM   #13
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

These guys are all correct. You can use any manual trans in that car from ant 3 cylinder Metro, just the ratios may be different. Here is more info on Metro gear ratios................

http://metroxfi.com/2008/04/metro-tr...o-information/
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:44 AM   #14
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

Good site in general, but maybe that's where this 3.85 foolishness is coming from. I've got the new product guides for every year except 92 and there's no mention anywhere of a 3.85 gear ratio. XFIs had 3.79
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:51 AM   #15
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Re: What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

Why do I see so many people out there telling people to use "Pennsoil [sic] Synchromesh" in these transaxles?
Are any of the guys recommending this stuff engineers, chemists, or certified technicians?
Nowhere in the Geo service literature does it say to use anything but 75W90 gear lube in the Geo Metro manual transaxle (although there are discrepancies in the GM publications as to whether the gear lube should be GL-4 or GL-5; an AMSoil tech service engineer convinced me it should be GL-4).
Has anyone looked at a spec sheet for Pennzoil Synchromesh?
It has a viscosity of 9.08 cSt @ 100 degrees C. That's like SAE 20W!!!
Please explain why someone should use this, especially when the discussion involves bearings that may be wearing out.
I had balky synchro problems in my '92 Metro, at 165k miles. I put in fresh Amsoil 75W90 GL-4 and it made a 110% improvement.
No, I don't work for Amsoil and in fact I would not recommend their engine oil due to discussions with a senior chemist responsible for certifying lube oils for a major manufacturer of heavy-duty engines.
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