The worlds fastets car: Koenigsegg CC-R beats the McLaren F1 at Nardo 2005!

[-DeaDLocK-]

It's taken a decade, and it's about time don't you think?

Thing is I doubt very much that F1 lovers (like many on here) give two hoots about the world record being broken. I doubt very much that Gordon Murray cares either.

The "fastest production car in the world" accolade was, as we all know, a well-documented accident, and the only good thing it did in my opinion was to raise the profile of the car to the general public who only care about headline figures.

The thing about the F1 isn't the top speed or the acceleration - it's the package. It's the cohesive and unfaltering vision of pure engineering purity with no compromise and no barriers that has never even been close to being equalled since and probably never will again.

Not the fastest car in the world anymore? Pooh - you think I care? And I think it sad that manufacturers like 9FF, Koenigsegg and Bugatti trump their higher top speed as something to be celebrated and a fact that somehow makes their cars "better" than the F1. I think they're missing the point...

[Gustav]

I dont care if you do or not: I care and that is why I posted here.

Thing is I doubt very much that F1 lovers (like many on here) give two hoots about the world record being broken. I doubt very much that Gordon Murray cares either.

The thing about the F1 isn't the top speed or the acceleration - it's the package.

The same with the Koengisegg. It os also the package.

9ff is not a manufacturer and the car was not standard, the wipers and rear spoiler were taken off.

Im not saying the Koenigsegg is better. Im saying it is faster in standard form

[cabrio92]

Hello,

Gustav is an genuine car enthusiast, what he does with www.bmwm5.com is very interesting. Also the trips in Germany and the visit at Dauer

So, on the first lap at 9 o'clock in the morning when they drove around the banked track, the test display showed 391,4 km/h! After that they made a second run before lunch and hit 395,8 km/h! The third lap at 2 o'clock beat the previous speed record set by the Mercedes C111 at the corner of the banked track by 10 km/h. For the last attempt they had the boost button on "Wet" setting out of the corner -which is 1,5 Bar- and the test instruments showed 404,6 km/h! The price of the car is 1,8 million DM which equals a little less than 1 million USD.

it is difficult today to say what is the fastest with these little productions figures.

Ciao
Phil

[Mr. Bernoulli]

Originally Posted by Gustav

GM: With the Koenigsegg they’re talking about a horsepower figure and top speed for which you need a Cd of about 0.17 or something. It doesn’t add up.

Not just abbout productions numbers but about his comments aboiut aerodynamics which was obviously wrong.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, he wasn't wrong. Koenigsegg were claiming these figures for the CC8S. The maths didn't add up.

Only once the car had gained 150 more horsepower and more aero work had been carried out did it manage to get close to the 250 mph in the original claim (albeit, not that close).

[Gustav]

If you see the original Koenigsegg press release from the Nardo test you see that a banked track does not let the car go full speed as the VW track at Ehra Leissen. So Koenigsegg might still be correct and Gordon M have talked too much before knowing everything.

The F1 topspeed was not at a banked track

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by Gustav

Also, the over 390 km/h F1 time was without mirrors I beleive?

Sorry Gustav, the mirrors were firmly attached that day:



Now in this photo, you can see that both the shut line around the front compartment and the turn signal indentations appear to have both been covered over with clear tape.



A keen eye would also notice that the windscreen wiper has been removed, and I suspect that front license plate is really a sticker, and not a true hard plate.

Here's another close-up shot of the car from that day. The tape has been removed at this point, but the windscreen wiper is still missing and you can more clearly see what I mean about the plate being a sticker.



= = = = = =

Anyway, a definite congrats to Christian von Koenigsegg and his team. A part of me wishes they had beaten the record with a standard car and not the CCR, as it seemed they were close earlier with a CC8S. Either way, it's an impressive feat and a car to be respected in the way that some low volume supercars will simply never reach.

>8^)
ER

[Gustav]

It is surely an impressive results since the company was nothing tne years back and two years back they didnt produca any car for track or consumers.

Wow, so that speed was actually not a 100% original McLaren F1? It was taped up as well as wipers removed? That makes the Koenigsegg recored even more impressive

[Gustav]

Also:

McLaren F1 was 3.95% faster on the straigh Ehra Leissen track than on the oval Nardo. If the same is true for the CC-R the CC-R would do 403 km/h top speed.

[Peloton25]

Gustav-
While I certainly admire and appreciate your enthusiasm on this, I really think you are trying to make more of it than it really is. While the top speed crown is an impressive one to wear, the figure is really irrelevant in real world driving. I've been driven at close to 200mph and it was ridiculously fast and not the wisest thing to be doing, especially on public roads here in the USA. Sure the road was fairly deserted, but anything could have happened causing an incredible catastrophe.

Adding an additional 30-40mph at those speeds is truly outrageous - you're already covering nearly an entire football field of distance per second at 200mph. You simply have no time to react to anything that gets in your way. Driving at those speeds is far above almost any sane driver's capabilities and the opportunities to stretch the legs of even a very fast car like the McLaren or Koenigsegg simply don't come up all that often. I would suspect that only a small percentage of McLaren F1s have been driven over 200mph and further, I doubt that more than a handful have been pushed to their Vmax.

>8^)
ER

[Thorst13]

Koenigsegg 387.87
McLaren 386.7

Koenigsegg REALLY showed McLaren by beating them with 1 kmph in a 12 year newer car thinking about that automtive technology is sooo slowy evolving and has so little knowledge about lightweight and bodydesigns these days.

I like the Koenigsegg but....
The McLaren is a legend, the Koenigsegg will never be in the same leauge!

[Gustav]

I think it is a big deal. Also I think it is a big deal that McLaren "cheated" with tape and without wipers

Funny how top speed is not an issue when McLaren F1 isnt the fastest car in the world longer...



The Koenigsegg CCR raised McLaren's previously unofficial mark of 372 km/h set at Nardo/Prototipo in 1993 with over 15 km/h. On top of this the CCR broke the official McLaren F1 record of 386.7 km/h, which was set on the 9 km straight line VW Ehra facility in Wolfsburg Germany.

[Mclaren240!]

Phelton any more pics from the run those are new to me also i which car did you nearl do the double ton i envy you i really do.

I dont belive for an instant the the F1's top speed was an accedent Mclaren do their sums. Is this official Gunnis Book of Records or just unofficial? Dont thint itl last to long i think the Veron could prove fast enough to take it the more i read on the Veyron the more i like it. Besides i thought the F! did 243mph but mclaren went with the slower recording the oppsit of what happend with the xj220 i wounder what hapend hear the margin seams very small....

[Thorst13]

øøøøøøøhhh...I personally could not give more $$$$ in what car is the fastest.
The McLaren is a far better car than the Koenigsegg overall and has a charisma the Koenigsegg can dream about!

And I like the Koenigsegg as well so I'm not against it in any way.

The McLaren has been beaten on numerous records, but show me a car that can rock the world as much as The Mac did when it arrived.
Half of the people in the world doesent even care about the Koenigsegg enough to bother to learn it's name!
That's how great it is outside the boarders of Sweden.
Only for auto nuts and enthusiasts.

[F1 monster]

It was never that important. People don't buy the McLaren for its top speed. They buy it for its engineering excellence and exclusivity and heritage. The top speed on a McLaren or Enzo or Zonda or Konigsegg is a nice bonus, but as long as they do above 210 mph, nobody really cares about the actual top speed. It's just a spec and maybe a nice target/world record/pub talking point--nothing more. These cars are mostly used at 120 to 160 or so on the highway. On most tracks, the speeds are actually lower when not being driven by professionals.

Beyond 160, you need empty roads with shallow curves...any idiot can stomp on a gas pedal and go faster if they don't care about other road users, license, safety in general, etc.

Top speed is a function of hp and aerodynamics and rolling resistance. You could always turbo a McLaren and get an even higher top speed--guess how many people have elected to do this. And removing the wiper or taping up shut lines is not cheating, or the record would not have been officially sanctioned. I am sure the CCR had some "mods" done to it as well, whether publicized or not. It's cold in Europe at the moment, so the cooling capacity didn't need to be at 100%--think they left all those cooling vents wide open? And what about the moose's behind that every Swede seems to like so much...I don't see one anywhere near the CCR.

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by Gustav

Funny how top speed is not an issue when McLaren F1 isnt the fastest car in the world longer...

I certainly didn't say that - I just mentioned that it's not the "end all" of performance figures. It's a rather irrelevant figure in the grand scheme of things given the extremely limited opportunities anyone would have to reach it. It has nothing to do with a car being faster than the F1 - I have never argued that the F1 was as great as it is based solely on the top speed figure they reached at Ehra Lessien. It's more a footnote on the legacy of a truly wonderful car and the same can be said for the 'segg.

Originally Posted by Mclaren240!

Phelton any more pics from the run those are new to me also i which car did you nearl do the double ton i envy you i really do.

I figured those would be new for some people.

The car was a '96 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo modified by a US company called Autothority. With the modifications they developed it was apparently pushing close to 600hp at the crank. The same car was featured in MotorTrend magazine in a brief comparison with the factory '97 Porsche 911 Turbo S. The car actually belongs to a good friend of mine, but he'll be replacing it very soon with a Carrera GT. Here's a shot of the actual car scanned from its appearance in MotorTrend magazine:



Their art director got the interiors backwards, so that red interior blended into the photo is actually from the Turbo S.

On our 'record run', the speedo needle was registering about 205mph while the digital speedometer showed 196mph at the same time. I'd figure the digital was much more accurate, but either way it was close enough for me.

>8^)
ER

P.S.: Don't try that at home kids.