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Old 01-28-2005, 02:45 PM   #1
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Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Greetings,

As I read threads on the board - I often read about the use of tuning chips. I figure these are different computer chips to give different performance curves etc.. But when posters talk about them - they never indicate what the down side or negatives of them are - or why it was needed for a street truck.

I've got the LQ9 high output performance engine V8 6 liter producing 345 hp (2004 4 x 2). I'm not refering to racing - because that isn't my thing. Will a tuning chip "do anything" to improve my truck for normal driving? And if so - what are the negatives as well as the positives?

Thanks for any input.

White Lightening
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Old 01-28-2005, 10:53 PM   #2
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Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Lightening
Greetings,

As I read threads on the board - I often read about the use of tuning chips. I figure these are different computer chips to give different performance curves etc.. But when posters talk about them - they never indicate what the down side or negatives of them are - or why it was needed for a street truck.

I've got the LQ9 high output performance engine V8 6 liter producing 345 hp (2004 4 x 2). I'm not refering to racing - because that isn't my thing. Will a tuning chip "do anything" to improve my truck for normal driving? And if so - what are the negatives as well as the positives?

Thanks for any input.

White Lightening
First off, yes an aftermarket tune will benefit your truck. Since I assume you're refering to a hand held tuner, I'll post up about them. A custom tune will do so much more, but we'll leave that for another post.

1. It will adjust air/fuel ratio a tad and give you a little more get up and go.
2. It will firm up the shift points by slightly increasing transmission line pressure. This will help your tranny. Instead of it sliding into gears, it will give it a more firm lock into each gear, thus reducing wear on clutches,etc.
3. I don't know if the VHO has a governor, but if it does, the tune will remove it or raise it up for Z rated tires.
4. You can increase your shift points. GM goes pretty conservative on the air/fuel mix, as well as the shift points. These trucks pull pretty good past the stock shift points, so you can get a little more out of your engine.
5. Some tuners remove some of the torque management. As you know, GM, in their tunes, puts in a safety feature known as torque management. This simply put, is a feature that cuts timing on these engines when the computer detects more torque than what is preset in the pcm during shifts. It really isn't noticeable on stock engines, but as mods are added, torque managment gets worse. It literally feels like the truck falls flat on its face during and right after a shift, then picks back up. The computer is cutting the timing, and therefore cutting the torque being produced. Some handhelds take out a certain percentage of torque management, and custom tunes can take out up to 100%. It's just a way for GM to better protect their crappy 4l60e-4l80e trannies.

I don't think you'll see any downsides to a handheld programmer, unless you count romping down on your truck more due to the addition of horsepower a "bad thing".
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Old 01-28-2005, 11:28 PM   #3
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Re: Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowprocess
First off, yes an aftermarket tune will benefit your truck. Since I assume you're refering to a hand held tuner, I'll post up about them. A custom tune will do so much more, but we'll leave that for another post.

1. It will adjust air/fuel ratio a tad and give you a little more get up and go.
2. It will firm up the shift points by slightly increasing transmission line pressure. This will help your tranny. Instead of it sliding into gears, it will give it a more firm lock into each gear, thus reducing wear on clutches,etc.
3. I don't know if the VHO has a governor, but if it does, the tune will remove it or raise it up for Z rated tires.
4. You can increase your shift points. GM goes pretty conservative on the air/fuel mix, as well as the shift points. These trucks pull pretty good past the stock shift points, so you can get a little more out of your engine.
5. Some tuners remove some of the torque management. As you know, GM, in their tunes, puts in a safety feature known as torque management. This simply put, is a feature that cuts timing on these engines when the computer detects more torque than what is preset in the pcm during shifts. It really isn't noticeable on stock engines, but as mods are added, torque managment gets worse. It literally feels like the truck falls flat on its face during and right after a shift, then picks back up. The computer is cutting the timing, and therefore cutting the torque being produced. Some handhelds take out a certain percentage of torque management, and custom tunes can take out up to 100%. It's just a way for GM to better protect their crappy 4l60e-4l80e trannies.

I don't think you'll see any downsides to a handheld programmer, unless you count romping down on your truck more due to the addition of horsepower a "bad thing".

#5 That description right there fits my truck exactally. It is the most noticeable when in tow/haul mode when it shifts from 1st to 2nd under 3/4 to full throttle. It was not that noticable untill after i got the exhaust done, then when i installed the K&N fipk it seemed to be worse and i just thought it was like that beacuse of the oversized tires and that is why i drive around in tow/haul mode. Driving in tow/haul mode changes the way the trans shifts, to me it acts the same way as a shift kit did on my 88. So i take it the only way to get rid of the torque management is to get a programmer or a nelson tune ?
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Old 01-29-2005, 01:45 AM   #4
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Re: Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowprocess
First off, yes an aftermarket tune will benefit your truck. Since I assume you're refering to a hand held tuner, I'll post up about them. A custom tune will do so much more, but we'll leave that for another post.

1. It will adjust air/fuel ratio a tad and give you a little more get up and go.
2. It will firm up the shift points by slightly increasing transmission line pressure. This will help your tranny. Instead of it sliding into gears, it will give it a more firm lock into each gear, thus reducing wear on clutches,etc.
3. I don't know if the VHO has a governor, but if it does, the tune will remove it or raise it up for Z rated tires.
4. You can increase your shift points. GM goes pretty conservative on the air/fuel mix, as well as the shift points. These trucks pull pretty good past the stock shift points, so you can get a little more out of your engine.
5. Some tuners remove some of the torque management. As you know, GM, in their tunes, puts in a safety feature known as torque management. This simply put, is a feature that cuts timing on these engines when the computer detects more torque than what is preset in the pcm during shifts. It really isn't noticeable on stock engines, but as mods are added, torque managment gets worse. It literally feels like the truck falls flat on its face during and right after a shift, then picks back up. The computer is cutting the timing, and therefore cutting the torque being produced. Some handhelds take out a certain percentage of torque management, and custom tunes can take out up to 100%. It's just a way for GM to better protect their crappy 4l60e-4l80e trannies.

I don't think you'll see any downsides to a handheld programmer, unless you count romping down on your truck more due to the addition of horsepower a "bad thing".
Greetings SlowProcess,

Very interesting. Here I thought a tuning chip was a computer chip that got installed in the vehicle's computer to replace a stock one. But your description is more of programming instead. I'm constantly amazed at all the things there are to learn about vehicles.

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Old 01-29-2005, 09:48 PM   #5
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Re: Re: Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny-1907
#5 That description right there fits my truck exactally. It is the most noticeable when in tow/haul mode when it shifts from 1st to 2nd under 3/4 to full throttle. It was not that noticable untill after i got the exhaust done, then when i installed the K&N fipk it seemed to be worse and i just thought it was like that beacuse of the oversized tires and that is why i drive around in tow/haul mode. Driving in tow/haul mode changes the way the trans shifts, to me it acts the same way as a shift kit did on my 88. So i take it the only way to get rid of the torque management is to get a programmer or a nelson tune ?
Unfortunately yes, the only way to knock out the torque management is through a tune upgrade. I know the Predator programmer takes out some of the torque management, but I'm not sure on the Superchips or the Hypertech. My tuner took out 100% of my torque management because I have a fully built transmission. A tuner can take out as much torque management as you want percentage wise. I wouldn't recommend going to high if you don't have at least a shift kit or a corvette servo. If you had both of these, you could most likely get away with 100%. Torque management will slowly get worse as you get more mods, because you'll be making more torque than what it will allow between shifts. I know....it sucks!!! I fought it for a long time.
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Old 01-29-2005, 09:54 PM   #6
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Re: Re: Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Lightening
Greetings SlowProcess,

Very interesting. Here I thought a tuning chip was a computer chip that got installed in the vehicle's computer to replace a stock one. But your description is more of programming instead. I'm constantly amazed at all the things there are to learn about vehicles.

White Lightening
Yeah, these newer GM trucks have a programmer instead of a chip. A custom tune, like a Nelson, is done on a laptop with a program called LS1edit or HPtuners. Both of these programs can be bought by anyone, but they are very complicated programs for beginners. These programs control EVERYTHING going on in the trucks PCM. Any little mess up could cause death to your motor, tranny, etc. That's why I went with a Nelson tune. Allen is awesome at what he does and all you have to do is remove your pcm and replace it with the pcm he sends you.

I'm going to be getting ls1edit this year and start toying with programming some, so I can cut back on the timing when I decide to spray. I'm also going to buy ATAP so I can log my runs down the track and see what's going on with the engine.

Don't we have some cool crap for these trucks to play with!!!
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Old 01-31-2005, 12:26 AM   #7
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowprocess
Yeah, these newer GM trucks have a programmer instead of a chip. A custom tune, like a Nelson, is done on a laptop with a program called LS1edit or HPtuners. Both of these programs can be bought by anyone, but they are very complicated programs for beginners. These programs control EVERYTHING going on in the trucks PCM. Any little mess up could cause death to your motor, tranny, etc. That's why I went with a Nelson tune. Allen is awesome at what he does and all you have to do is remove your pcm and replace it with the pcm he sends you.

I'm going to be getting ls1edit this year and start toying with programming some, so I can cut back on the timing when I decide to spray. I'm also going to buy ATAP so I can log my runs down the track and see what's going on with the engine.

Don't we have some cool crap for these trucks to play with!!!
Greetings Slow,

I'm wondering what would you suggest as considerations for a truck like mine. I have the HD transmission (like the SS) with the same engine as the SS. My Axle ratio is 3.73 with my rear wheel drive and I have the stock stainless steel muffler and the 20" wheels and Goodyear street performance tires. My trailering activity is infrequent light duty 6' x 10' flat bed size500# to 1000# weights at most or pulling a single jetski. Normal driving is highway and city - no racing - no stoplight hammering. I run 93 octane Premium at this point. City mpg is 14 to 17 depending on temperatures and distances - my highway mpg is about 20.5 maybe 21. At 55 mph I'm at about 1400 rpm - right at the start of my torque band in A.T. 4th gear.

My desires? Longevity - fuel economy - maximized non-wearing performance - no desire for complex engine mods. (Typically don't go faster than 70 - but my biker background doesn't like sluggishness either).

Would a Nelson tune take advantage of my equipment and enhance my needs?
Suggestions or input? Thanks.

White Lightening
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Old 01-31-2005, 12:51 AM   #8
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Lightening
Greetings Slow,

I'm wondering what would you suggest as considerations for a truck like mine. I have the HD transmission (like the SS) with the same engine as the SS. My Axle ratio is 3.73 with my rear wheel drive and I have the stock stainless steel muffler and the 20" wheels and Goodyear street performance tires. My trailering activity is infrequent light duty 6' x 10' flat bed size500# to 1000# weights at most or pulling a single jetski. Normal driving is highway and city - no racing - no stoplight hammering. I run 93 octane Premium at this point. City mpg is 14 to 17 depending on temperatures and distances - my highway mpg is about 20.5 maybe 21. At 55 mph I'm at about 1400 rpm - right at the start of my torque band in A.T. 4th gear.

My desires? Longevity - fuel economy - maximized non-wearing performance - no desire for complex engine mods. (Typically don't go faster than 70 - but my biker background doesn't like sluggishness either).

Would a Nelson tune take advantage of my equipment and enhance my needs?
Suggestions or input? Thanks.

White Lightening
You probably would be better off with a hand held tuner, something like a Hypertech or Superchips, etc. Now I have no experience with these (don't have them for my truck, my truck actually has a chip you'd have to change-92 model), but alot of people buy them, and love them.
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Old 01-31-2005, 07:55 AM   #9
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Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

Aw hell, why spend $350 on a handheld when you can get a Nelson for not much more! I think with you having the HD tramsmission, you could remove all of the TQ management without any negative effects.

I had like 40% removed on mine and I can still tell some of it's there if I just stomp it sitting still...it sucks.
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Old 01-31-2005, 09:58 AM   #10
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Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

what is the highest % of TM that can be removed and still be safe on the factory tranny??
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Old 01-31-2005, 10:56 AM   #11
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Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

I think Allen told me I didn't want to go much more than 40% removed until I added my servos and such. I didn't argue with him. I was gonna ask for 60% removed, but wasn't sure if that was too much.
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Old 01-31-2005, 03:05 PM   #12
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

[quote=Slowprocess]Unfortunately yes, the only way to knock out the torque management is through a tune upgrade. I know the Predator programmer takes out some of the torque management, but I'm not sure on the Superchips or the Hypertech. My tuner took out 100% of my torque management because I have a fully built transmission. A tuner can take out as much torque management as you want percentage wise. I wouldn't recommend going to high if you don't have at least a shift kit or a corvette servo. If you had both of these, you could most likely get away with 100%. Torque management will slowly get worse as you get more mods, because you'll be making more torque than what it will allow between shifts. I know....it sucks!!! I fought it for a long time. [/QUOTE

slowprocess, can you tell me more about the corvette servo? i know about shift kits and put one in my old 78 4X4. i am new to electronic transmissions i am used to turbo 350's and 400's , and dont know what is involved in using a corvette servo. is this something i may possibly be able to find in a salvage yard or be more advised to get a new one. my truck is a 02 Z71 with the 5.3 . what year corvette servo will work?i would appreciate any info you can help me with.
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Old 02-01-2005, 06:27 PM   #13
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Hey all, being new to the forums here......I am curious about your discussion.

I have the Predator Programmer on my 2003 TrailBlazer EXT 4X4 with the 5.3 & a 3.73 G80 locking rear.

Using the programmer definetely enhanced the power, but not as much as I would have liked. I heard about the torque managment & was wondering if anyone knows just how much of the management is removed from such a programmer?
I foolishly spent the hundred some dollars to have them do a "custom tune" for me which really didn't do anything extra IMO, but to get them to do anything more for me, they told me to Dyno my vehicle & e-mail them the results of the fuel to air ratio & whatever else they tell you about it.

Am I wasting my time with this handheld programmer?


I just like having the extra power from the extra's I have installed (TrueFlow Air Intake, Granatelli Mass Flow Air Sensor, Predator Power Programmer & a FlowMaster Exhaust).

I know it will never be a race car...didn't buy it for that purpose, but I would like a little more power out of her without causing an early grave for her.


Down low in the RPM's it is pretty slow. Once the tach goes past around 3000, it picks up from there really nice....still need better low end.

Trying to find anything for my TrailBlazer is such a pain.....tons of stuff for your Trucks & Tahoe's, but very scarceon the TB parts.

Can you guys help me? Point me in the right direction for the right parts?



About a Nelson tune....does it void out a factory warranty or no? Where can I get one done for me & will it be much of an improvement over the Predator?


THANK YOU
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Old 02-02-2005, 08:54 AM   #14
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Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

I don't think it voids anything, You can get them from Allen Nelson @ www.nelsonperformance.com and they will BLOW any handheld programmer out of the water. I had a Hypertech before this and its a waste of money. There are trucks indentical to mine around here w/Hypertech's and Superchips and such and they can't even hold a candle to mine.
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Old 02-02-2005, 01:03 PM   #15
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trying to understand TUNING CHIPs for new trucks.

[quote=bowtieguy]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowprocess
Unfortunately yes, the only way to knock out the torque management is through a tune upgrade. I know the Predator programmer takes out some of the torque management, but I'm not sure on the Superchips or the Hypertech. My tuner took out 100% of my torque management because I have a fully built transmission. A tuner can take out as much torque management as you want percentage wise. I wouldn't recommend going to high if you don't have at least a shift kit or a corvette servo. If you had both of these, you could most likely get away with 100%. Torque management will slowly get worse as you get more mods, because you'll be making more torque than what it will allow between shifts. I know....it sucks!!! I fought it for a long time. [/QUOTE

slowprocess, can you tell me more about the corvette servo? i know about shift kits and put one in my old 78 4X4. i am new to electronic transmissions i am used to turbo 350's and 400's , and dont know what is involved in using a corvette servo. is this something i may possibly be able to find in a salvage yard or be more advised to get a new one. my truck is a 02 Z71 with the 5.3 . what year corvette servo will work?i would appreciate any info you can help me with.
The corvette servo is a simple/cheap way to make the transmissions shift more crisp and firm. They are very inexpensive(around $15), and can be bought at any online transmission store. In fact, I think I picked mine up off of ebay. I think I have a diagram on my home computer that shows exactly how to install the servo. It can be done without the removal of the tranny. It just simply installs in the side of the transmission in place of your stock servo. With the addition of the servo and the shift kit(I always recommend Transgo), your shifts will be so much more crisp and to the point. The shift kit will enable you to have the shifts where you want them, either just barely firmer than stock-all the way to yanking second gear. I'll post up a link to where I got my servo, and also will see if I can hunt down that diagram. They're definately worth the little money they cost. I just saw where you asked what year. You'll want a corvette servo for a 4l60e.
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