HSVs are awesome

[hsv_gts_908]

Ford_Man_1984, what I was saying is that FPV should quit while theyre doing ok. What the hell is a turbocharger doing on their 4.0 litre DOHC straight six shitbox? The easiest way to get the required power is to drop in a big ass V8, like HSV did, instead of rooting around with all the high tech bullshit, which is just more that can go wrong. I said that if there is ever going to be a challenge from FPV, they have a 6.2 Gen III and a 7.0 Gen III, and those two have beaten FPV before they even start to challenge. All this is before a supercharger is required. I have also heard of a 350kW 6.5 litre Gen III (CSV) which I'm sure HSV could produce if they had to. And with all this turbo six bullshit by Ford, I think it's a pretty safe bet that Holden will come up with a supercharged version of their new V6. And have you heard about some Buick concept car using a twin turbo 3.2 litre Holden V6? It puts out 300kW and 600 Nm before it's even trying! Now if Buick can do that, surely HSV can. and thats not using the largest engine! If you work out the kW per litre, a 3.6 version should pump out around 340kW. The maximum possible displacement of the new V6 is 4.0 litres, which equates to about 375kW in biturbo form. (remember this is before they are even trying. There is even word about a 300kW, 900Nm, 8 litre twin turbo diesel V8 finding a home under the Clubsport bonnet. And what is FPV gonna do about the HSV Coupe4? Oh, I almost forgot. What about the HSV Avalanche (specced up Adventra LX8) and the HSV XUV AWD (specced up Crewman Cross8)? And the V8 Supercars don't use LS1 and Boss engines, they use the old cast iron pushrod 5.0 litre V8's. The Holden engine has been destroked to 304 cubic inches and the Ford has been stroked out to 303.5 ci. And if FPV is so 'brilliant', how do you explain the poor sales figures compared to HSV? And the Arrow Coupe, i said 370kW, you said 372kW, same difference. The fact is that it was slower than the 5.7 litre 305kW CSV Mondo. I don't know the exact weight figures of HSV's and FPV's, but i have heard that the GT-P is nearly 200 kg heavier than a Clubbie R8! No wonder Fords are slow! Oh, and err, the Gen IV V8 is a twin cam pushrod with 3 valves per cylinder. Work that one out, smart arse. And your comment about the 427, It won the Bathurst 24 Hour TWICE FROM TWO TRIES and came home 1-2 in one of them, beating a 3rd placed Porsche by 13 laps. Those ones have 520 kW, which is about 1.22 kW per cube. Now which naturally aspirated Ford has that sort of power? None of them except for V8 Supercars. If the 427 had the same kW per litre as Skaifey's supercar, it would pump out around 680 kW.

[Ford_Man_1984]

maybe you dont understand what holden did.......THEY SCRAPED THE 427 CHEV BECAUSE THEY CANT SELL ENOUGH TO MAKE A PROFIT....."I have also heard of a 350kW 6.5 litre Gen III (CSV) which I'm sure HSV could produce if they had to.".....i bet you were sure of alot of things b4 last night when i posted.....maybe your not listening.....Holden has a contract with chev....they will be using the LS1 for a long time to come....u think the arrow is slower than the CSV Mondo.....wake the fuck up.....do u realise the performance of the Ford Arrow.....they sold 25 of them around australia.....registered yes.....72kW more than HSV's range topping Coupe GTS at the same time....600Nm.....what do u want me to work out about that engine????...you just said what it has.....any educated person knows how a combo like that is set out....common knowledge in which u obviously dont have.....it won bathurst 24 hour against Porche.....thats nothing to brag about....even my bosses BA XR8 with slight mods kicked the shit out of them at the track last weekend....."IF"....."IF" the 427 had the same power per cube as skaifeys car..it sure bloody dosnt hav that power....u want me to find a ford with naturally aspirated big kilowatts....1000.714kW at the wheels of the 71 fairlane in NSW......fastest road registed car in australia......by the way you have a large peice of your dads arse hair on the finger your waving......300kW and 900nM hey.....thats resonable....not great but reasonable....thats an 8 litre twin turbo V8 diesel....XE Falcon....348Kw....1400nM!!!!!!!.....thats just a single turbo on an otherwise stock 4.1 litre X-Flow running on LPG....for that upgrade your looking at 6 grand.....and i wonder how much the diesel V8 costs......

[AndrewHatch]

I know I shouldn't respond, it's obvious you've been through special education your whole life but anyway here we go.

All the times you or I can quote are only relative. Times produced by any car can vary alarmingly between temperature, tires, serviced condition of the motor etc...

Power, times, etc... are only one aspect of a car. There are a lot of other things too, like weight, build quality, style, handling etc....

Ford has done well in recent years but Ford/FPV have not produced a better car than the HSV GTS. Sure their Turbo Six is better than what Holden can make but the shine will soon

Wen the new HFV6 lands and the Gen1V appears in VZ Ford will have to do something serious. They already have weight issues with BA and with a six that still has the bore centres that date back to the 60's and the source for the next V8 still unconfirmed it deosn't look good.

Quietly I'd reckon they've bet the farm on the new Territory.

However this still does not detract from the fact that you are an idiot.

Anyone who can attempt to praise the virtues of the ESP Falcon, a big bucket of crap powered by an old ugly gas guzzling Cleveland (and yes I have driven them) and all you can do is bleat about figures from one publication or another about your Fords.

You're a special one Ford_Man_1984. Now tell us some more times and power figures and we might humour you, you little ray of sunshine.

[hsv_gts_908]

You know what AndrewHatch, you're absolutely right. Ford sure as hell has never built a car to rival the HSV GTS. Not even the new DJR320 can do it(made by Dick Johnson and Harrop and slower than a clubbie). I know there is more to a car than performance, but HSV is close enough if not better than Ford in the handling department now that they have Ohlins adjustable dampers on GTS. The GTS is faster than any car Ford has ever built, and it even uses less fuel than an XR8! (it cam manage 1800 RPM in 6th gear at 110 km/h). I don't think Ford could have made a worse choice with the Boss V8. The BA Falcon XT V8 is capable of only 5250RPM, and it's rival, the VYII Commodore SV8 does a touch over 6500RPM! So the Gen III usually has more power, slightly less torque, an extra 1250 RPM (in some cases), as well as better fuel economy than the Boss, as well as revving more freely. So would you call DOHC engines better than pushrods? Or is this just another example of brilliant engineering by The General? Looking at the ECOTEC V6, i'd say pushrods still have a hell of a lot of advantages. When it came out in the 1988 VN Commodore (Buick started production in 1983), it was the most powerful six offered by a local manufacturer, but remember it was only called ECOTEC after the VS II update, and has won Wheels Car Of The Year three times since '88. It has beaten Falcon, Magna, Avalon, Lexcen, Camry and fuck knows what else in both 0-100km/h acceleration the whole time (it even beats the BA 0-100) and what's even more impressive is that it has been the class leader in fuel economy since it came out in 1988, and still is. I'm just glad GM is sticking to the pushrod layout in the Gen IV, but with 2 cams and 3 valves per cylinder. Anyway, back to HSV. Depending on the model, VY is generally a safer car than the BA, but there's not enough difference to worry about. I know that temperature plays a big role, but if all cars are tested in the same conditions, the difference shouldn't be too different, but on hot days, Commodore usually beats the Falcon by more than it normally would. Ever wondered why no one can get the claimed 0-100 time of 5.3 sec in a Clubsport? It's because HSV did it at night. FPV have been reported to be doing it too, but no matter how hard they try, Falcon simply cant beat Commodore. And would someone explain how SS Commodores always seem to beat FPV GTs around Mount Panorama? The only explanation is that the Commodore does its job of being a sports/muscle car better than any Falcon can. And as for tyres, it's Ford's stupid mistake for not using Bridgestone across their range. And the GTS can hit redline in 3rd during a burnout, where as the GT doesn't produce enough revs to move out of 2nd!

A bloke from Wheels magazine has driven the Cadillac XLR or whatever it's called, which is built on the VE Commodore platform and has the 3.6 litre HFV6 and 5 speed auto of the VZ Commodore. The verdict: not even Mercedes-Benz can build such a car. And this is without the Gen IV V8. Bear in mind too, that Torana is due for launch in 2008 with a 4.6 litre 260 kW Cadillac Northstar V8, and a 200 kW 3.6 litre Holden V6. There are also rumours of a Gemini to replace Vectra in 2008, with the Caddy Northstar's little brother, a 215 kW 4.0 V8, a 3.2 Holden V6 and an Opel inline 4.

The biggest problem for Ford, is that they are nearly broke as it is, they are relying on the Territory to save them, which is not going to happen because the VE Adventra is not far away and with the Toyota Rav4 to replace Holden Frontera, Toyota Prado to replace Holden Jackaroo and Toyota Landcruiser to be an all new Holden model, Ford are yet to face their darkest days.

And Ford_Man_1984 is one of the biggest bullshit artists on the net. Mate, who gives a fuck what some bloke did to their XD or whatever it was? The fact is that most fast Falcons are not the work of Ford. And don't bother mentioning concept cars either (not that Ford has many). Cadillac has that covered that with their 750 kW, 1250 Nm 13.6 litre V16 'Sixteen' concept car capable of 0-100 in 4 seconds and fuel economy to match a 6 cylinder BA. And then there's the Elfin MS8, designed by Holden. 300kW HSV LS1, 6 speed manual, rear wheel drive, 850 kg, 0-100 in 3.3 sec.

Oh and I forgot to mention that Cadillac will start selling cars in Oz under the Holden name. Looks like Ford is fucked.

And Holden is currently leading in the V8 Supercar series too.

And as for the Arrow, you can't expect to put a gearbox with ratios twice as tall as theyre supposed to be, as well as an outrageously tall diff and expect it to go fast, no matter how much power it has.
Now i'm not replying to u anymore Ford_Man_1984, because all you talk is S-H-I-T.

[Jimster]

Why do you Holden/Ford boys squabble so childishly?

[Ford_Man_1984]

"The GTS is faster than any car Ford has ever built"
obviously your a little behind in fords progress.....1964 the ford Thunderbird ran 11.8 second quarters straight out of the box....and yes it was a production car....me and my friend find it extremly funny about your views of the ecotec......not only does it hav the torque of a 4 cylinder but it wasnt until 1993 holden managed to beat ford 1970 4.1 litre straight 6 in kW.....but they still havnt matched the Torque.....
Holden 1993 VP : 130 kW@4800 RPM Max
Torque: 295 Nm@3200 RPM Redline

Ford 1970 XY:127kW at 4200rpm
Torque: 339Nm at 2200rpm
and this is your "unbeatable" V6???
you still hav no idea about what your saying.....you used all the biggest engines u could think of to challange ford......i not only match them but beat them so now youve gone to smaller less quality engines.....and neither that or talking about cars holden is going to make in the future is going to beat ford.....any holden going to be made within the next 20 years has allready been beaten by FORD.......Ford is almost broke.....thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard in my life......they own: Mazda, Jaguar, Mercury, Lincoln, Land Rover, Volvo and Aston Martin........what does holden own????
oh yeah thats right there owned themselves.....
"Bear in mind too, that Torana is due for launch in 2008 with a 4.6 litre 260 kW Cadillac Northstar V8. There are also rumours of a Gemini to replace Vectra in 2008, with the Caddy Northstar's little brother."
Ford Has A 4.6 litre V8 Also.....used in the mustang....292kW....goes to show holden will never reign superior!!!!!!
holden will neva challange ford in its 0-100 times no matter what u manage to make up......2 litre turbo ford escort 94 model......0-100 in 3.07 seconds........a worlds best since then.......no matter what holden has ford will always beat it.....i dont mind if u dont reply to me any more.....but b4 i bid u fair well how about posting your age......so we can all look back at this and laugh at you......wat do u say chicken shit?????

[Jimster]

And you're stupid. In case you didn't realise Holden are a part of General Motors- You know- Buick, Cadillac, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Suzuki, Saab, Saturn, Opel, Vauxhall, AM General, GMC, the late Oldsmobile and small shareholdings in the FIAT group and Subaru.

Ford Australia is very much the same as Holden- under the umbrella of a bigger company (Ford). Secondly the Ford 94 Escort you are talking about is the mid-80's RS2000 (In a particular specification that I can't remember the name of).

Thirdly Ford are damn near broke- they continue to post large losses every year and recently lost the title of worlds Number 2 car maker to Toyota.

Really, neither Ford Australia or Holden make anything of any note and none of it is anywhere near clever. Holden use a V Body with an LS1 and Buick V6's and Ford uses a 15 year old floorpan with truck engines and a Straight six that has been around since the Jurassic period. If you want innovation look to Europe, or Japan- but not to the land down-under.

[Ford_Man_1984]

hummer as well incase u didnt realise......your just as stupid as hsv gts.....not once did he or i say ford "AUSTRALIA"............ford are damn near broke
i spose thats y they made $7.9 billion profit last year...........RS2000 and RS200 are 2 different designs incase u didnt know.......check the engine chassis and drive train specs.........nothing is the same apart from the normal make up of any car.....i sugest u do some reading up.......maybe venture out of the back yard and you will realise its a big world out there.....and ford pretty much OWNS it.....now you can black book me or close this thread or whatever you want......but neither my name nor ford will eva be forgoten.....as for HSV GTS........your a gutless peice of shit........give up.....thats as good as admiting defeat.......Peace out mutha fuckers........hav fun in your little holden world.....where child molesters and loses live!!!!!!!

[Jimster]

OK that's quite enough, enjoy your bannage.


If you're saying that I didn't include Hummer in my GM brand profile, then you're wrong- that's what AM General is, dumbass.

I suggest you visit http://www.dictionary.com because your English is worse than most Italians, yet alone Australians.

Yes, the RS200 is the homoligation for Group B rally special and the RS2000 a variant of the Mk2 Escort, I'm most aware of that, but the RS200 of the mid-80's is still the car that used to hold the 0-100 km/h record until recently and it has very little in common with an Escort.

If Ford "owns the world" then why are they only the number 3 car maker in the world? Oh wait I forgot, Ford are number one, in your deluded little world. Then again you were the guy who said he had the fastest car in NSW

[georgepj7]

Yeh HSV's are good but these days every man and his dog ownes one....not like the old limited edition aeros and stuff......they're still awsome but.

[dpac]

ford man 1984...... u really r stupid.......

i can respect alot of fords..... the old skewl phase three's, XR6 turbo, typhoon (when it comes out) yadda yadda yadda..... and in all that time they have made one good part the 'ford 9"'...... yeah wd for that

all of your mentioned times r soo stupid it sounds like ur 10years old....... ford is the only production car to break the 14 sec barrier..... hahahaahah yeah sure..........
vy ::: i think every LS1 HSV's do the 1/4 under 14........ and akay if ur sooo stupid and don't beleive that fine...... go here www.ls1.com.au
....... if ur so uptight about performance then...... these boys are running constant low 12's in street form with just BOLT ON's....
*KABOOM KABOOM* FARK wat's that outside, ohhh no it's just ur jaw hitting the floor


and what about the tornana L34 the specs on that weapon were not even realesed.... yeah i bet u a low/mid 13 was cabable

Bottom line.... i have a 5.7l HSV SENATOR VR and from experience these cars r built awesome.... and can't compare to any ss, xr8, xr6T..... bottom line 98% of FORD SUCK

[engineer]

ford was majorly worse than holden UNTIL the BA series... oh and BTW i am more of an import (jap n euro) guy so im biased but.... the ford XR6 turbo kills all of em and the FPV TURBO will be even better... hahaha a 6 cyl TURBO won MUSCLE car of the year in australia.... the thing is now holden has the 3.6 litre alloytec V6 that makes up to 190kw, now that thing i will give sum respect, but not much since holdens just playin a game of catch up... even japanese cars have had DOHC 4 valve per cyl engines for over 20 years!!!

[Albert_Speer]

whats yur favarite tipe off hittLer spechial vehical!

http://www.abc.net.au/children/saveu...s4_800x600.jpg

bye!

[Jimster]

My god, how in gods name did you manage to mispell EVERY word in that sentence?

[heres_addy]

jimster
do u feel tough disabling sumones account then trying to beat them in a convo?