peak oil

[Cbass]

Hydrogen is a much better burning fuel than alcohol is, by far. It creates more energy than alcohol when burned, by a considerable margin, has virtually no harmful emissions, and takes far less space to store

Theoretically, a hydrogen powered generator could be employed at a hydrogen production facility, meaning it could be entirely self sufficient. All you'd need then would be a desalinization plant and you could produce limitless quantities of hydrogen.

Production of alcohol requires first that you have a base to ferment, a sugar source for the yeast to convert into alcohol. Grain is the most cost effective solution for ethanol production, and if I recall correctly, methanol is derrived from wood. Then you require distillation apparatus, which requires a powerful heat source to boil off the alcohol. Even the most effective reflux apparatus can only produce around 96% alcohol, so the rest of the water will have to be chemically removed, and the end product filtered and chemically treated to remove it's impurities.

It's a pretty time consuming and energy intensive process...

Hydrogen, on the other hand only needs a filtration system for the water, electricity and an electrolysis chamber, and a high pressure tank to store it.

2strokebloke, what you are describing is more commonly known as biodiesel. There is a racing team in Europe than campaigns a New Beetle TDI 1.9 in a touring car series there, and doesn't do badly at all. They run on synthetic diesel fuel derived from soy bean oil.

In Germany, there are already hydrogen filling stations for automobiles, although I think there are only 4 or 5 so far.

Converting a gasoline powered engine to hydrogen is rather simple as well, if it's EFI, you simply replace the injectors, remove the tank and replace it with a high pressure cylinder and regulator. The ignition and fuel curves will have to be altered to suit the much higher octane fuel.

If it's carbed, it's even easier just give it more advance and calibrate the regulator for the right fuel pressure.

[2strokebloke]

Actually, simple solar stills do a very good job of producing ethanol alcohol. Research shows that alcohol with a small percentage of water burns better and delivers more power than pure 100% alcohol, so about 120 proof is all you need, and it is possible to get this concentration from a simple home made still, whether it be solar powered, or burns waste wood. The fermentation is really the hardest part, not the purifying. If you have a pressure cooker you can ferment enough to make enough alcohol to power a lawnmower or moped, but you'd need something much larger if you planned on fueling your car.
Hydrogen, being a gas is harder to control than alcohol - that's not to say it doesn't have it's advantages, in actual use in an engine it is a better fuel than alcohol, but in issues of safety, and practicallity of use, alcohol is more practical, except in cold climates.

[Cbass]

Production of ethanol is very simple, but it's very unlikely that many people would be willing to make this own as a fuel source, and it's still quite illegal to produce your own in most parts of the western world.

Damn you Kiwis

That being said, with an old hot water heater and about $100 in copper pipe and fittings, you can produce a reflux apparatus that will produce 96-97% alcohol in a single pass, and depending on the size of your water heater and the type of base you use for fermentation, you can make as much as 10 gallons of fuel in one run.

Alcohol would be much more practical in converting older cars on a budget, but hydrogen is a much more practical source of fuel overall, especially when you consider that the cost of production is minimal, production plants can be built anywhere, and the only requirements for making the hydrogen are water and electricity. The actual parts involved in the conversion are minimal, and BMW has already proven that gasoline engines are easily converted to hydrogen burning engines.

Large scale production of alcohol to replace gasoline would require massive quantities of a fermentation base. There are very few choices for the base, it would most likely have to be a grain source, such as wheat or barley. This would leave the production of the world's fuel supply subject to harvest conditions. The cost involved in the fermentation and distillation would be significantly higher than the cost involed in running an electrolysis plant, especially if the electrolysis plant was running off a hydrogen powered generator

[girlie97gt]

Well I see everyones points and view.. And I am just going to rant on this subject... But I think the most F****d up part of this is that the US has enough of this natural resource to supply there own country. But vs suppling our own country we choose to sell our oil to other countries for an inflated price and then also buy oil from other countries in which we are now getting an inflated price.. So it all boils down to we are getting screwed real hard up against a brick wall right now with gas prices.. And it majorly sucks for a person like me.. Who works for a giant corp. That does not even give cost of living raises, get an evulation once a year and that is your only time to get a raise.. If you are late too work once that screws you for getting a raise that you.. you can work 300 hours of overtime in a week to keep your company from getting fined up the ass on there production agreements.. So now that i have to pay over $2.00's for one gallon of gas that gets me about 30 miles and that is on a good day.. That really pisses me off especially when not even 4 years ago i was paying like a $1.10.. So now americans.. have to deal with this on top of it all.. I really think it is time that our country spends less time in other peoples business all the freakin time and start taking care of there own.. We cannot even provider our seniors with reasonable health care.. But if they had smuggled themselves into this country and got knocked up it would be completely paid for no questions asked free health care for all.. On top of that we will give you money to live and pay for you a forgiener in this country that does not belong here cause you SNUCK in here.. what the hell.. So for all us lower-mid to mid class citizens who have rent/mortage to pay for your property taxes keep going up due to less money for schools in the budget.. (by the way i live in NY).. and have a car payment in order to get to work.. and get raped on income taxes... and have to work our asses off to be able to afford to live.. lets just add another curve in the road.. for you all.. so come winter next year we will all freeze cause we cannot afford to heat our homes... Yes i understand there are other means of energy and what not... but at this point in time.. they are not the cheapest things to switch too.. and by the way ... I have gas heat and electric heat.. i refuse to use my electric heat cause it cost ALOT more then my gas heat.. I think our goverment needs to spend less time planting trees on sidewalks and making enimies and more time on home..

well thanks for letting me get that all out.. I may be wrong on some issues here.. but i am sure some of this has been on peoples minds.. and i am not asking for anyone to agree with me or disagree with me.. it was just a rant