GM is A JOKE!

[sadgaowner]

Okay, let me clarify something. If it just so happened that my GA was the only model or year with this problem, I would not be so quick to crucify GM. However, since GM uses this motor and its lousy, plastic, chronically failing intake gaskets in a number of models and years, I feel they know there is a problem. Since they have done nothing to improve the problem (I have heard from owners of various models from year 89 to 03 with this exact same problem) I can say without reservation that GM doesn't give a flip about quality and I will not purchase from them again. How else do you explain the fact that they can't seem to fix a problem that has been around so long? Lack of technology? I don't think so. One more thing, I have owned many cars, GMs, Fords, Chrysler/Dodge, AMC, Jeep, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. This is the first time I had a car with chronic problems that were the result of defective or substandard parts. The other GMs were all pre 75 and I had nothing like this happen with any of them. My point is, that GM's quality has deteriorated over the years. Not just in the GA but it seems in many of their cars.

[camaroincal]

Originally Posted by Oldengineer

I'd agree with you that your Vette is a great car. However the Chevy 4's and V-6's on the market pale in comparison to Chevy's V-8s.

Regards:
Oldengineer

3.8 3800 is a great engine.

[J_Swigz]

Originally Posted by sadgaowner

Okay, let me clarify something. If it just so happened that my GA was the only model or year with this problem, I would not be so quick to crucify GM. However, since GM uses this motor and its lousy, plastic, chronically failing intake gaskets in a number of models and years, I feel they know there is a problem. Since they have done nothing to improve the problem (I have heard from owners of various models from year 89 to 03 with this exact same problem) I can say without reservation that GM doesn't give a flip about quality and I will not purchase from them again. How else do you explain the fact that they can't seem to fix a problem that has been around so long? Lack of technology? I don't think so. One more thing, I have owned many cars, GMs, Fords, Chrysler/Dodge, AMC, Jeep, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. This is the first time I had a car with chronic problems that were the result of defective or substandard parts. The other GMs were all pre 75 and I had nothing like this happen with any of them. My point is, that GM's quality has deteriorated over the years. Not just in the GA but it seems in many of their cars.

Seeing that you own a Grand Am, the engine isnt that great to begin with. HOWEVER, the other engines such as the 3.8(as mentioned above), the 5.3, as well as the great 5.7 are all wonderful motors. Also, I work at a Pontiac dealership, and the problem you refer to, I haven't seen very much of over that past 2 and half years Ive worked there. Now, when you say GM is a joke, so mean to say that Cadillac is a joke? or that Saab is a joke? Perhaps even toyota? Because the first two are run through GM and the third deals with GM quite a bit; what do you think th VVTi engine is? that's right, toyota. Granted, GM has had their fair share of problems, but you can't expect an auto manufacturer to not have at least one car that isn't exactly the best in the bunch.

[J_Swigz]

Originally Posted by MexSiR

GM is a piece of shit period. No quality. Look at the corvettes interior for example, fucking ugly. Gm sucks!

corvette z06 is a great car, and quite well made.

[MexSiR]

I said look at the interior. Not the car in general. The interior looks shit crappy. Crappier than my fugin civic and its 40,000.

[Oldengineer]

Ok - Pontiac mechanic - what you're saying in essence is: Stick to GM engines designed in the 1950's and 60's, or, made by some other manufacturer, and you'll have an Ok car. The basic problem is - the newer GM cars seemed to be engineered by a bunch of damn accountants. That's why Oldsmobile is now on its deathbed.

Regards:
Oldengineer

[sadgaowner]

Swigz
You work for GM? Okay then you tell me why they continue to use the same substandard piece of @#*& parts when they know the parts are @#*&. And, AGAIN! The motor with this problem is used in more models than just the GA. Defend them all you want. They should fix the problem. My reference to GM being a joke is in the context of their lack of customer service and total failure to stand behind what they manufacture. I would be ashamed to work for a corp. that continues to blatantly disregard a major flaw in workmanship. They are a money hungry corporation that cares little about customer satisfaction. They are indicative of everything that is wrong with virtually every large American Corp. Money is concern 1, not the customer. This is why I will not buy from GM again. I'll buy a honda and still be driving it when your GM is in the wrecking yard. Tell me why GM can't build a vehicle that runs like any of the 3 Hondas I have owned. I drove those cars for a minimum of 230000 miles and NEVER had one single engine problem. Just routine maintenance. When GM can build a car that can compete with Honda in durability, fuel economy and performance, I'll take back every bad thing I've ever said and run out and buy one. Till then, GM IS A JOKE!!!!!!

[J_Swigz]

Originally Posted by sadgaowner

Swigz
You work for GM? Okay then you tell me why they continue to use the same substandard piece of @#*& parts when they know the parts are @#*&. And, AGAIN! The motor with this problem is used in more models than just the GA. Defend them all you want. They should fix the problem. My reference to GM being a joke is in the context of their lack of customer service and total failure to stand behind what they manufacture. I would be ashamed to work for a corp. that continues to blatantly disregard a major flaw in workmanship. They are a money hungry corporation that cares little about customer satisfaction. They are indicative of everything that is wrong with virtually every large American Corp. Money is concern 1, not the customer. This is why I will not buy from GM again. I'll buy a honda and still be driving it when your GM is in the wrecking yard. Tell me why GM can't build a vehicle that runs like any of the 3 Hondas I have owned. I drove those cars for a minimum of 230000 miles and NEVER had one single engine problem. Just routine maintenance. When GM can build a car that can compete with Honda in durability, fuel economy and performance, I'll take back every bad thing I've ever said and run out and buy one. Till then, GM IS A JOKE!!!!!!

Do you want my honest opinion? I agree that the 3.4 is a substandard engine. Honestly, if I had my way, the 3.8 would be in the grand am, just as it is in the Grand Prix, but I can't control that now can I. I own an 89 oldsmobile, and it has 88k on it right now; there is a man that brings his buick into the shop for regular maintenance that has 310k on it, not all GM vehicles are bad, and they are both on series I 3800's. The GN engine was a series I 3800, modified to fit a turbo, and you know what? It's considered one of the best performance V-6's ever produced. Now, I'm sorry that you've had so many problems with your vehicle, and I am also sorry that you have also dealt with assholes(from the sounds of it anyways)as far as service goes. In my place of work, the customer comes above all else, if they aren't happy, then we figure out what we messed up and we fix it. Bottom line. By the way, I never said I was a technician. I am only 18, however my father is a ASE certified and GM certified Master Technician, and he would side with me, and you as well, that the 3.4 is substandard and is a blatant piece of shit. I can't change that, and GM must be making some amount of money off of it, though I wish they didn't.
Now, I understand that not everyone is going to like GM, or Ford or Dodge, or whatever, and that's fine. I can't do a damn thing about what you think except defend certain aspects of the company that I feel should be defended. Notice that I only argue certain points? Not all the brands owned by GM are complete flops, if you know who is owned by GM I'm sure you could at least find one amoung the group that you don't find to terribly bad. Again, I am sorry that you have been treated in such a way when dealing with service and your car.

[sadgaowner]

Swigz,
I am not attacking you personally. Yes, the experience I had was bad. Worst ever. I am still angry, as u can see. However, you stated your position well. I understand that not all GMs are garbage. I have owned several that were great cars. But those were all pre 75 models...66 Impala, 71 Pontiac T37, and a 72 Camaro. I guess I just hate the idea that a corp that made such great cars back in the day turns out crap like the 3.1 now. I bought the GA last July, it failed in December. I now own a $5000 oversized paperweight. Can't afford a new motor, still need a car. Actually I am going to look at a 72 Nova SS a friend of mine has. I still like the oldies, just have no faith in the new ones.

[J_Swigz]

Originally Posted by sadgaowner

Swigz,
I am not attacking you personally. Yes, the experience I had was bad. Worst ever. I am still angry, as u can see. However, you stated your position well. I understand that not all GMs are garbage. I have owned several that were great cars. But those were all pre 75 models...66 Impala, 71 Pontiac T37, and a 72 Camaro. I guess I just hate the idea that a corp that made such great cars back in the day turns out crap like the 3.1 now. I bought the GA last July, it failed in December. I now own a $5000 oversized paperweight. Can't afford a new motor, still need a car. Actually I am going to look at a 72 Nova SS a friend of mine has. I still like the oldies, just have no faith in the new ones.

I apologize if I gave you the inclination that I was offended as I was not at all. I completely understand why you are angry, and you have every right to be as well. I do agree with what you say about GM having produced such great cars a while back and now producing such things as the 3.4, and it yes it is sad. Also, I believe GM is coming out with a new inline 5 engine which is a 3.5 litre, I'm not sure if they are getting rid of the 3.4, but if they do, I will not be distraught. If you really want my honest opinion, buy a Nissan; they are great cars and are known for their quality. I would personally buy a Nissan sedan over any Pontiac sedan.

[Hypsi87]

Originally Posted by camaroincal

3.8 3800 is a great engine.

Just to make it be known. The 3800 series II engines in all GM products are made by Buick.

[lowsonoma1999]

Out of all the cars I've owned, I have had better luck with GM than any of the others. Out of the 7 cars I've owned, all being GM, except a Honda Civic, and an 02 Eclipse. I put more money into repairing the Honda than all the GMs combined. The Mitsu, quite a few problems, and I have to take it back for still several more warranty repairs. Biggest problem I had in any of the GMs was in an '86 Cavalier Z24, had to put a tranny in it, but that is part my fault, I was 16, and it couldn't hold the numerous neutral drops. Other than that, cooling problems in a '92 Custlass Supreme with a 3.1L was the biggest. The Honda, 2 distributers ($500 each), coil, igniter, clutch, wheel bearings, sunroof track, and other minor problems. A month after I sold it to a friend of mine, the transmission differential locked up. The Mitsu, sunroof track, trim piece coming loose, leather flaking, cd changer quit working, warped rotors, and still have to take it in for bad hatch struts, headlights clear coat flaking on inside of lense and rainbowing, and paint on wheel centercaps peeling. So, no matter what car you get, you are going to run into bad ones here and there. I believe Hondas are good cars, even though I had extremely bad luck with the one I had. I would be hesitant on buying another one, but I might some day. As far as dealerships not helping you out, that is a dealership to dealership situation. There is a GMC, Olds dealership that I have dealt with for year that has the best service I have ever seen. My mom had a 90 GMC Safari AWD. About 2k miles out of warranty the ABS computer went out. Dealer or GM paid for the computer, she paid labor. About 6 months after that, the paint started peeling. Typical with a blue color around that year. No cost to her, but had the entire van repainted. We have bought 3 vehicles from that dealership and have always received excellent service. I wouldn't count out GM just for one bad vehicle or one bad experience at a dealership.

[Oldengineer]

I quit shopping GM after 4 bad cars in a row. My last one, a 1985 Chevy Celebrity Eurosport Wagon, was a doozy. In 36,000 miles the car was towed in 6 times for major electronic engine control failures. The dealer fixed the same oil leak 3 times. Then, at around 30,000, the rear suspension broke while my wife was driving it, and, almost wrecked her. The car was so unreliable that we could not chance taking it on any sort of trip - it's favorite trick was to back-fire and quit, usually on the interstate. The dealer, one of the best here, tried and tried to fix it, but, to no avail even after several thousands of dollars in replacement parts.. As soon as it went out of warranty, I dumped it and switched to Ford and Chrysler. Have run 14 Chryslers and Fords up to 100K without major problems. My current Chrysler is problematic, but , not as bad as the Chevy's and Oldsmobiles were that I used to buy.

Regards:
Oldengineer

[J_Swigz]

Still, you are just one of how many people who bought GM? Not every vehicle is going to be a winner, it just so happens you had the misfortune to get more. Anyways, I think I'm just going to bow out of this argument because no matter what I say, or how much I defend my stance, it's not going to have any impact on you or your stance on GM, so I might as well not even bother.

[Oldengineer]

Don't take it so hard. I was a engineer for Delco from 1968 - 1978. We in the component divisions could see what the corporation was doing to cut costs, and, gravitate to the series of "clone" cars that started to appear in the late 70's. Not only did they stick me personally with some bad vehicles, they tanked the price of my GM stock when they started to loose market share and profitability. What they did to Olds, Pontiac, and Chevy through the 1980's was a crime, and, opened the door wide for the Japanese. Even today, I'd consider buying a Buick with a 3.8 for my business use, but, the dealer here has a pathetic service dept and a horrid reputation. I'm not fond of rice-burners, and, would love to see GM burn them for a change with some innovative, high quality, affordable product. The new Caddy line is showing signs of life, and, is getting good reviews. I'd dearly love to see Buick and Pontiac go head to head against Toyota and Honda across the board as well.

Regards:
Oldengineer