Does God Hate You??

[Oz]

Originally Posted by integra818

god loves me. The sign at the church says so

EDIT: Ned Flanders (aka crapster4000), remember when you said you found god in your life and you were happier than before? Well...when I stopped believing in god, I was much happier. I felt like I had control of my life instead of tryin not to do these silly things called 'sins'.

Exactly the same integra818. I went to church for over 10 years and maintain that leaving and not looking back was the best thing I ever did.

[DGB454]

I think you guys still misunderstand the whole Christianity thing.
I choose what I believe and no one forces me to believe any certain thing. (Just ask my Pastor. We have had a number of debates on certain things I see differently than does the Church).

It is our duty to go out into the world and spread the Gospel. (The great commission") We are not to stay home and spread the Gospel other wise it would have been worded " Therfore stay at home and spread the Gospel to anyone who comes over." instead it's worded that we should go out into the worls and spread the Gospel.

As far as Christians being illogical. This is a ridicules argument. It is usually used by people who really have no understanding of what true Christianity is about. I am a Christian and I am a very logical person. (maybe even to my detriment.)

I believe God has a sense of humor. I'm sure he has had many laughs over some of the things I have done out of ingorance. Does making fun of him bother him? Probably not. Mostly because the person making fun of him has no relationship with him. If they did they wouldn't do it. I think it bothers him a lot more because they have no relationship with him. That's where Christians come in.(you know....The great Commission and all.)

As far as not preaching to the people of this board because "I have a problem with people like you who cram it down my throat. People like you make people like me want to run in the opposite direction. Don't preach to me. If I want to hear the Word of God, I will read the Bible and make my own decisions" That's cool. It does seem like it's the non Christians that are cramming their beliefs down our throat a lot harder than Christians on this board but that's just my point of view.
One other thing on that statement you made RSX. You said if you want to hear the word of God you would read the Bible. Does that mean you believe the Bible is the word of God?

I turned to Christ (which is not the same as turning to the Church) a few years back and it's the best decission I have ever made.

[ironman502]

We cannot argue religion with the religious. I posted this before and I should again, Oz. You and I can not argue religion using logic and reason.
Logic and reason has no effect on someone who firmly believes a mystical fairytale and a storybook have set down all the rules of life, mankind and the universe.
Religions are a mass of contradictions and illogic, and so are religious people.
Thier attitude denies even the basic rules of cause and effect. Argument is impossible.

All I can say, is thankfully we live in a society where their irrational fervour is not the rule of law.

Posted by Oz - 01-18-2004 at 12:05 AM

Let me start by saying that I believe in the Bible, not what any church or person on this earth thinks is right. I am not trying to push anyone, but Magic Rat made a statement with no foundation. I assume you include the Bible under your umbrella of "religion," so let me just give you an open invitation to find a contradiction in the Bible. The supernatural unity displayed in a book written over a period of 4000 years by 40 different authors is awesome. It should be full of paradoxes, but I challenge you to find just one. And please don't say a book is full of contradictions if you haven't read it thoroughly.

[Cl0ak]

James 1:13 "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
vs.
Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."
vs.
Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."

I Kings 4:26 "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."
vs.
II Chronicles 9:25 "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."

Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."
vs.
Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up."

[crapmaster4000]

Oz and Integra, if you guys are wrong, and tomorow would be judgement day, what would you tell Jesus when he asks you why you turned away from him? Im not trying to force anything but im just asking you out of curiousity. This question is for anyone else too.

[Oz]

I would tell him exactly why. The enormous flaws in the theology he supposedly 'inspired' I could no longer ignore.

[EnzoHonda]

Originally Posted by crapmaster4000

Oz and Integra, if you guys are wrong, and tomorow would be judgement day, what would you tell Jesus when he asks you why you turned away from him? Im not trying to force anything but im just asking you out of curiousity. This question is for anyone else too.

So are you saying that your faith is based on fear? Must be a tough belief system.

On of my favourite comedy skits is from Rowan Atkinson. He dressed up as the devil and pretended that he was sorting out the various people in hell. "Hello everybody, welcome to hell. First I'll sort you into groups. Ok, thieves, looters, and bank managers form a line to my left. Rapists form a line by Vanessa; she's the one standing by the little guillotine. And Christians could you please form a line to my right. Yes, I'm afraid the Jews were right."

[Cl0ak]

Originally Posted by crapmaster4000

Oz and Integra, if you guys are wrong, and tomorow would be judgement day, what would you tell Jesus when he asks you why you turned away from him? Im not trying to force anything but im just asking you out of curiousity. This question is for anyone else too.

I would tell him "Hey jesus, whats hangin bro, I brought the crew of 'Queer Eye For The Straight Guy' to give you a new look cause' that hair just aint gonna kick it in 2004". Than I would laugh hysterically until he killed me, and or, left.

[RSX-S777]

"As far as not preaching to the people of this board because "I have a problem with people like you who cram it down my throat. People like you make people like me want to run in the opposite direction. Don't preach to me. If I want to hear the Word of God, I will read the Bible and make my own decisions" That's cool. It does seem like it's the non Christians that are cramming their beliefs down our throat a lot harder than Christians on this board but that's just my point of view.
One other thing on that statement you made RSX. You said if you want to hear the word of God you would read the Bible. Does that mean you believe the Bible is the word of God?"

DGB. I absolutely respect the fact that the Bible is a religious text. I absolutely respect the fact that YOU believe it is the word of God and live by it. I did not say that is what I do or do not believe. I respect your right to an opinion. I DONT RESPECT PEOPLE WHO TELL ME HOW I SHOULD LIVE. I CAN DECIDE FOR MYSELF. I find the manner in which some choose to implement the "Great Commission", EXTREMELY distasteful and disrespectful. Talking down to me like I am a child is certainly NO way to convert me.

Let me add, however, that I appreciate your frank, open approach and tendency toward rational discussion. It is far more palatable than Crapmasters method.

[integra818]

Flanders, If you never got presents as a kid, would you still believe in santa?

I grew out of believing in santa because I realised he was made up. Kids try to be good the whole year so they can get presents...same way YOU try to be good all your life so you can go to heaven. Wake up.

[Oz]

*Just a note - to quote someone else, click the Reply w/Quote button under their post.

[RSX-S777]

Thanks OZ. I did (lest you think I typed that whole fu@king thing... just edited wrong....

[ironman502]

Originally Posted by Cl0ak

James 1:13 "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
vs.
Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."
vs.
Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."

I Kings 4:26 "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."
vs.
II Chronicles 9:25 "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."

Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."
vs.
Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up."

Whoa, I feel like I'm dodging bullets, but I did bring it upon myself. I'll answer what I can right now and get back to you about the rest later.

I Kings vs. II Chron. If you look up I Kings 4:26 in the NKJV, the footnote says that some manuscripts of the Septuagint read four- instead of forty-thousand. This is a scribal error, reason unknown. (Don't use this to prove that modern translations are inaccurate- you will have trouble finding many more of these.)

James vs. Genesis There are two different Greek words in these two passages. The one in James 1:13 means "tempt," and the one in Genesis 22:1 means "test." Unfortunately, the KJV translated them both "tempt," again cleared up in the NKJV.

John vs. Genesis Examination of the context of John 1:18 shows that the verse refers to God the Father. Jacob in Genesis dod not fight with God the Father. (Maybe I can clarify later.)

Exodus vs. Hosea The Ten Commandments were given only to Israel. They were not given as a way to heaven, because ultimately, no man could obey all the law all the time. It was made to show the Israelites their inadequacy and need of a Savior. Hosea talks about what Israel's enemies, who were not under the law, would do to the capital of Israel's northern kingdom since Israel had turned away from God.

I hope this will be helpful to people looking for some answers. I am ready to reasonably defend what I believe in, as any intelligent person should be. Any more "contradictions?"

[Cl0ak]

I'm sure we can play this little game all night.

Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness."
vs.
II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

Leviticus 19:13 "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him."
vs.
Luke 19:29-34 "[Jesus] sent two of his disciples, Saying, Go ye into the village . . . ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him. . . . And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt? And they said, The Lord hath need of him."

Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."
vs.
James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."


Ezekiel 24:14 "I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent."
vs.
Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

Romans 15:33 "The God of peace."
vs.
Exodus 15:3 "The Lord is a man of war."

[DGB454]

You are going to go through every "contradiction" on that site aren't you?

Do you have any you have found yourself?

No matter...I'm sure Ironman can handle these also.