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Old 05-09-2001, 01:46 PM   #16
Xcalibur
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Thanks guys!!

'Preciate it much!!
I'm gonna get it done today after I get back from visiting the wife in the hospital.

Hope to return the helpfulness sometime.

Are any of you going to GOX this year?
If so, we'll see ya there.
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Old 05-09-2001, 02:24 PM   #17
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Myself, and several members of PNWX will be at GOX and Moab this year.
:apuke: :smoker2:
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Old 05-09-2001, 07:22 PM   #18
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a bunch of us MAXCers will be there as well.
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Old 05-10-2001, 12:01 AM   #19
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just a little geometry here

ok, I just got the Bilsteins and the 2" shackles put on today. It only take a couple of hours, by myself. I used alot of everyone's suggestions too.
I left the wheels on and only used my stock scissor jack with my Civic's scissor jack to spread the leaf springs a little. I too, had to trim alittle of the upper bushing and grease it a little to get the shackle on.
A ratchet tie-down would be a good idea to use if anyone needs to pull the leafs together a little after taking the stock shackles off. I did have the leafs spread outward on me a little at that time. My only ratchet tie-down was in use on the roof and I couldn't get to it, so I had to use some brute strength. (Although, not a good idea in some cases when a heavy vehicle is jacked up and could possibly come tumbling down on you or someone else.)
And of course the Bilstein's were a 10-15 minute job as Gothamist said. Thanks!

But now to the geometry part of this MOD. I must be missing something here, being that I'm not as experienced as the fellas down at SLR, or anywhere, as far as that goes. Anyway, before I got the shackles, I was wondering how it would lift the X 2"'s. At the rear of the leaf spring is where the shackkle goes which would lift it 2"'s there, but it should only add 1" [or a little less] at the hub/axle or the center of the tire/wheel, since the front of the leaf is the pivot point.
So, IF, and that's a big IF, since I'm not totally sure of all this (and some of you are gonna help straighten this out [or agree]) all of that is true, then the fact of needing the new longer Bilsteins is not exactly neccesary. At least not neccessary for the driver side.
Being that the driver side shock's lower point of contact is in front of the axle and the shock is angled up "FWD", (away from the 2" lift at the rear of the leaf) then a @' longer shock isn't needed. By overegsagerating the shock angle and almost angling it totally forward [near the front point of contact of the leaf] that would prove that NO longer shock would be needed, even if you lifted the rear of the leaf 5 feet. Does that make sense?
However, the passenger side does need the longer shocks, b'cuz it is angled back. I noticed this while putting the shocks on after I did the shackles. The driver's side needed to be jacked up and a little depressing of the shock [about an inch] to fit. The passenger side only needed a little depressing of the shock because it's two shock's point of contact was actually 2"'s farther apart. [Well, actually, a little less than 2] But the driver side would be shorter than 1" longer.
Now, by all means, please !!!!!! Don't anyone take this as a complaint or negativity. I love what it did for the X and I can't wait to do a little torsion bar lift up front to level it off some. It is definately a positive thing for me, but I just wanted to get this geometry/angle thing cleared up. Can somebady verify or fix it? And my "1in." and "2in." measurements aren't exact! If I say the axle is at a 1" lift, I'm just using it as a number for 1/2 of the total 2" at the rear leaf point. If the shackle is 10", then the 1/2 measure would be 5". All I'm saying is don't go out and measure anything. I don't even know if the shackles are a true 2" lift, it could be 2 1/2". But my general points should be <, >, 2".
Do I have everyone confused yet? :') Sorry, if I do!! :'(
Help!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-10-2001, 03:57 AM   #20
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Believe it or not MT and I called SLR up the day we got our shackles to ask about that, because it didn't make sense. The thing you're forgetting (about the height lifting) is exactly what I forgot as well...it's not a perfect triangle.

Look at where the leaf springs anchor in the front, it's actually about 2-3 inches down from the bottom of the frame rails (which is why that area is so scraped up on all of our trucks.) When you extend the shackles, you're not extending one side of a triangle, you're extending one side of a (rough) parallelogram. You're right, the total lift is less than the 2", but I seem to recall the difference eye-to-eye of the shackles is about 2.5", netting you almost 2" before everything starts to sag.

Also, about the shock length...remember the stock shocks restrict your travel as well, if you completely droop one side you won't be at the bumpstop on the other side before the stock shock runs out of travel. I don't entirely follow your argument about the shock angles--even if you exagerate the angles you're still only halfway up the length of the leaf spring, right? So you would still need to extend the shock lengths unless the front shock anchored at the front springpack...

If I didn't understand what you meant, let me know...or if what I said makes no sense I'll try and edit it into some semblance of coherence.
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Old 05-10-2001, 11:06 AM   #21
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Ratchet tie-down to pull in springs

That's a good idea. We had the same problem with ChuckH's shackles.

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Old 05-11-2001, 02:04 AM   #22
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Smile Isn't this fun?!?!?!? :')

I think we're all on the same page here. Cool! :')

I gotcha on the parallelogram! True, there! You're right and I agree too. But not exactly what I was trying figure out. The 'parrallelogram' could be off of the frame by 3", 5" or any amount. It will still be the same at the end of the lift procedure, as well. So, I'm thinking that wouldn't have a play in the equation. [Does that make sense?]
Another way of looking at it is like a pair of scissors opening an equivalant of 2" to the Xterra lift. (Minus one of the scissor 'blades' on top) So the thumb hole, [of the scissors] and it's connecting 'lower' blade, is like the Xterra frame, {setting aside the 3" drop of the front point of the leaf, being that it will be constant before and after the lift procedure} and the 'oval' circle (where your 3-4 fingers go in the scissors handle) up to the pivot, is like the front half of the leaf spring.
Please don't get insulted if I'm talking 'babytalk', I'm trying to paint a picture for you guys. LOL
So, are we gettin a true 2" lift at the axle? That's where we want an advertisement of a 2" shackle to get it's lift from. From the pic I saw of someone's Red X w/ shackles next to another Red X w/o, it looked like it was about 3-4 inches, which should be correct [at the bumpers!]. If our bumper stuck out 5 feet from the shackle points, we would be giving our X's rearend approx a 12" shackle lift. So, we want a 2" lift at the axle/hub, and I think we're only getting an inch or so.
How about this.....If we lifted the front the same way (lifting the X 1" at the front axle) it should level it out. Being only a total 1" lift. We just used a 2" shackle method that sort of tweaked our leaf spring angle a bit and distributed the weight on them a little, very little! That's another point for later, maybe. :')

On the shock thing, I'm with ya again! :') Cool, huh?!?! I totally agree too. Longer shocks = more travel = more traction during articulation & = more artic. <---same page again :')
My lack of description probly didn't say what Iwas trying to say on this one either. Both of these scenarios are based on the 'rear only!' being lifted 2".
Remember, I'm totally pleased with my upgrades and completely understand that longer shocks = more travel. The longer, the better, 'til the leafs can't "spread eagle" anymore. lol.
OK, the angle overexageration thing. On a 2" 'axle/hub' lift, 2" longer shocks would compensate if the shocks went straight up, not at a fwd angle (driver side) or back angle (psngr side). We have a 2" lift at the back of the leaf, with a longer shock going fwd and one going back. Which means the one going fwd (drvr) is only elongating about an inch or so, and the one going back (psgr) is gong about [the full] 2" --a compass would give more accurate measurements--, but one is more than the other. {I guess that was my initial point}
So, if you overexagerate the 'fwd pointing' shock angle from [straight up, to it's present locale] to say,....[straight up, to almost lying flat; near the front leaf point of contact] and then added the 2" shackle, the same shock could be used with no changes needed. But, if you overexagerated the 'rear pointing' shock angle, a longer shock would be NEEDED, becase the shackle is at the rear leaf point. Does that make sense? :') Sorry man, don't mean to be giving you a headache. :')
Try to read my first post after reading this one and it might all run together better if you didn't quite get what I said this time. I promise, a measuring tape would work on this equation. I'm gonna have to go do it too, now. It's gonna bug me and I'll be working on it in my head some more too.

Thx, again, G
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Old 05-11-2001, 02:12 AM   #23
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tie-downs

Thx Schlud,

I'm sure anyone would have laughed at what I did, to get teh springs pulled together. I'm wrapping and rewrapping my towstrap around the springs and my back, to use my bodyweight to pull them in. Thus my warning, ...."(Although, not a good idea in some cases when a heavy vehicle is jacked up and could possibly come tumbling down on you or someone else.)..... :')
Just thought I'd help others and keep them from risking other witty ideas that could get them hurt, killed or limbs mangled.

Anywho, thx again, G
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Old 05-18-2001, 11:48 PM   #24
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Ok, anybody else's bottom bolt on the SLR Shackles just way too long besides mine and Aquamander's? I remember there was some discussion on the XOC(?) or was it the Unofficial board that the nuts are made to stop at a certain point as well so there's no way to tighten it up all the way with the bolts as long as they are. Looks like a trip to Home Depot for some shorter bolts, lock washers and nuts!

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Old 05-19-2001, 01:02 AM   #25
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Can you say Irony?

The original bolts raised complaints from owners for being too short.

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Old 05-19-2001, 01:28 AM   #26
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Yeah, no kidding

When we installed ours MT and I had to find locking nuts for the bolts because they were too short to fit the lock washer onto...
At least they responded to our complaints though (perhaps too eagerly.)
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Old 05-19-2001, 02:48 AM   #27
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Thumbs up Long lower bolts!!!

Yup! Mine were too long too! However, I just got mine in last week when I installed them and it seems to me that SLR has somewhat fixed it for any new purchasers. My lower bolts are about an inch too long, but the bolt is threaded far enough down to not run out and it can be tightened down. It just has a little (about and inch) of threaded bolt that needs to be hacked off. Also, SLR now sends lock-nuts with the shackles too! No trip to Home Depot for anybody else.

G
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Old 05-19-2001, 07:07 AM   #28
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Smile longer bolts

My guess is they figured that people wouldn't need to put lock washers on because of the locknut. After people started installing them and saying they were too short to add a lock washer, SLR probably decided to go with a longer bolt to allow people to do what they wanted and just cut the excess off. Lock washers with locknuts may be a bit redundant, but it gives you piece of mind. I've been bouncing mine around pretty good. I don't even worry about them coming off.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:10 PM   #29
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Re: Spencer Low Racing 2" shackle install

That FirstGenX shackle swap was just the thing I was looking for. Awesome write up and looks very easy to do. Even for someone with limited mechanical experience.

Thanks!!
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