broken sway bar

[sparcx]

i found a dorman installation sheet for 927-100

http://www.dormanproducts.com/docume...eet_927100.pdf

not sure if it helps me on the detective work here....

interestingly it says "NOTE: Bar should match OE orientation. See image below. Image may vary depending on application."

[pfofit]

Originally Posted by sparcx

i found a dorman installation sheet for 927-100

http://www.dormanproducts.com/docume...eet_927100.pdf

not sure if it helps me on the detective work here....

interestingly it says "NOTE: Bar should match OE orientation. See image below. Image may vary depending on application."

Hey nice find.

5. Slide the Sway Bar through the left side of the vehicle. Make sure ends of bar are angled down.

My bolding
Line 5 above. This sums up my long winded explanation about the curve of the bar and the image shows the downward curve under the inner tie rod end arm but from memory the curve appears exaggerated to my intrigue setup . That's the problem with showing 3 dimension from a 2 dimensional photo. Probably cause the tires are hanging and the control arm is pulling it down on both sides.

I'm probably wrong but compared to your picture, of coarse from a different angle it appears to be going up instead of down, before it gets to the end link.. That's why we would need to see a profile at the sway bar level.
cheers

[sparcx]

which side of the car do you think they are showing in that instruction sheet? drivers side?

I guess i'll try popping off that wheel tomorrow and taking another look.

[pfofit]

Originally Posted by sparcx

which side of the car do you think they are showing in that instruction sheet? drivers side?

I guess i'll try popping off that wheel tomorrow and taking another look.

the side they are showing is the driver side and your copied image is the passenger side.
Remmber that if you only take off one wheel your sway bar will not bend down as much as their photo because the other wheel will be level and on the ground and will be doing what a sway bar does and try to counteract the twisting of the car. however, you should be able to deciper the curve in the metal sway bar.

[sparcx]

Thanks, i may just pull both front wheels off to make it easier to sort out. Will post back tomorrow.

Interestingly enough, the car drives pretty darn well until these endlinks started failing. The main sway bar bushings appear to be in good shape too based on the pics i took.

[sparcx]

I messaged dorman and they're asking if it's possible the nut was overtightened beyond 17 ft lbs

anyone know what the OEM end links recommend for torque? the same?

It would make sense since the car is driving fine and the main bushings looking fine.

Gets a little more complicated now that i have two competing theories.

[pfofit]

Possible explanation for sure. My dumb theory is soley based on a perception from a picture and my experience with the shape of it compared to teh old one..

The bends in the bar are there for placement of the bar within the car and avoidance of other parts. The links are long and have lots of flexibility.. It would most likely perform the same. The bar is just there to react when loaded and help transfer forces from one side to another.

[sparcx]

I got another fast reply back from dorman when i asked about the possibility of it being installed upside down....

These will not mount if they are installed backwards or upside down. From the looks of the picture there is a lot of threaded bolt above the upper bushing so it sure looks as if it was too tight.

[pfofit]

Interesting, I do remember physically placing the bar without center bushings in place and that is when I noticed how the curve in the bar would cause an aligning issue with respect to the end links.

One would have to assume your mechanic probably noticed this as well. However,mine did explicitly go out of the way to say how to orientate the bar so that one would not install it upside down. Probably the one I have is quite different than yours.

Just take off the wheel and see how it looks. If it looks proper then your back to overtighening or cheap bushings.

I know that the thread length is long and any w-body sway bar or end links I've removed needed a deep socket to get over the length of the stud, both on new and original links. In fact , in their picture you can see the long length of the link stud even it is partially hidden by the tie rod end

[sparcx]

OK, pulled both wheels off. Here are the pics. The hump is pointed up in the middle.

I couldn't get a good pic of the hump, but i think i got a pretty good perspective that matches up with their instructions for the drivers side.

Take a look.

[sparcx]

i followed up with the dorman guy... and he agreed the bar is upside down

You’re right, it definitely looks to be on backwards. That bar should swoop down where it comes off the sub frame.

Thanks a bunch pfofit.... you saved me a bunch of long term grief with endlink replacements!

I just hope nothing else is damaged in the process. I'm guessing it's going to be about $100 to fix all of this as i'm going to replace the endlinks and bushings.

The most sad and aggravating part about all of this is that the Made in China dorman bar turned out to be better than the Made In USA version.

[pfofit]

glad it worked out for you . I was beginning to think I was wasting your time on a wild goose chase.

I've used several dorman products before in the pass and have had no problems but I was very impressed with dorman in that they responded to you and your issue, they responded back quickly and when it came down to it they did suggest that it was possible to flip it.

I wouldn't worry to much about other damage. the only thing I would look at is if the bar over the time it was in the car if it had been contacting the tie rod long arm that it swoops under. If it was severe, then you might had heard it tapping on it

You could probably know by looking if there is scratching on the top of the bar or on the under side of the tie arm.

The end links are not that expensive and flipping the bar is not that bad really. I do not know your abilities or tool setup But the bolts have already been lossened. The original can slide in and out with a bit of twisting and such. i take them out through the passenger side to avoid less contact with the fuel & brake lines. However, the trick with these dorman bars that I ran into is that the hump in the middle pointing down does not allow easy placement without disconnecting the passenger side tie rod end from the steering knuckle.

Now the problem with that is that the original tie rod ends come with a locking nut with a plastic insert and if there is any rust build up on the threads the nuts get stuck on the final threads and the little 8MM hex nut on the end is too flimsy to allow you to get a hold of to get it off. If I want to reuse the tie rod end, I make sure that I use a wire wheel to clean up the studs threads really good and the put some grease on the threads to make sure it doesn't lock up and then start spinning in the knuckle. If I'm replacing the tierod end and it binds up then i just use a grinder to cut off the nut when/if the buddy seizes up.

cheers

[sparcx]

Originally Posted by pfofit

glad it worked out for you . I was beginning to think I was wasting your time on a wild goose chase.

I wouldn't worry to much about other damage. the only thing I would look at is if the bar over the time it was in the car if it had been contacting the tie rod long arm that it swoops under. If it was severe, then you might had heard it tapping on it

You could probably know by looking if there is scratching on the top of the bar or on the under side of the tie arm.

The end links are not that expensive and flipping the bar is not that bad really.

i'm glad you pushed me into not accepting the first dorman customer service explanation and take the wheels off anyways and double check it.

i did a pretty decent look around. I couldn't find anything obvious that's damaged. At the top above the sway bar hump, there seems to be a small dent in some sort of large piping overhead. Not sure what exactly caused that, but it seems minor. Not sure if i can get a good picture since it's so far in.

Bushings and endlinks were inexpensive. I ordered the Moog versions for about $15 and will pick them in the afternoon. So parts wise that's not a huge issue.

If i had a little more experience, i'd consider doing it myself. Maybe some day down the road.

I have to wonder how many other people did the same thing with the unlabeled bars. I can't have been the only one. IMO, this really is a dorman issue since they reengineered the bars so the middle hump points down now. Without any clear markings like the China version, a lot of mechanics will just try to install it the same way mine did in the OEM orientation. (Edit: turns out my USA dorman bar was marked on the paper label with the words "drivers side". The problem was the sticker was placed on the wrong side by Dorman and my bar went in upside down. )

[sparcx]

Originally Posted by pfofit

I wouldn't worry to much about other damage. the only thing I would look at is if the bar over the time it was in the car if it had been contacting the tie rod long arm that it swoops under. If it was severe, then you might had heard it tapping on it

just put the wheels back on, but before i did i double checked for any other extra contact. Surprisingly enough there was no rubbing or anything with the tie rod ends. They are pretty close with the bar flipped up like that, but i could not see any signs of contact.

got lucky in that respect as i think those tie rod ends aren't that old.

Nothing else i could find wrong with the bar. The original made in USA sticker is still on there. lol

[sparcx]

Originally Posted by sparcx

i did a pretty decent look around. I couldn't find anything obvious that's damaged. At the top above the sway bar hump, there seems to be a small dent in some sort of large piping overhead. Not sure what exactly caused that, but it seems minor. Not sure if i can get a good picture since it's so far in.

here's what i mean by that dent. Took a bit of work, but was able to get a good pic from the driver's side.

It's up near the bend of the sway bar in the pic. Looks like a mostly cosmetic dent in part of the exhaust.