The Truth About Gasoline

[ice745]

...basically what I just said :-\

[CBFryman]

Originally Posted by NitRoDrivEn

Since you brought this up, I think I might add to it on the economic level... gas prices.

First things first, say goodbye to cheap gas because it is gone for good. Just a part of history. Why is that you might ask? Do the middle eastern countries hate us? Probably, but that's no reason to not sell us oil for fair prices. Is our world running out of oil? Hardly. In fact, geologists say that we're not even at the 50% depletion mark yet. There's plenty to go around, but the fact is that the "easy oil" is gone. Whatevers left in the oil reservoirs is becoming increasingly harder to extract. It costs a great deal more money to extract oil really deep within the Earths surface, and they compensate for that cost by... you guessed it... raising prices on the oil. That's one of the major factors in gas prices going higher, but what contributes to it the most is probably the massive economic boost of the two gargantuan nations in our world: China and India. These two countries are building like there's no tomorrow, and due to the size of the nations and their populations of over 1 billion people each, they are consuming mind boggling amounts of oil. Then there's the war in Iraq, which we all know about.

Anyway, fact is, unless we cut down on our oil consumption, gas prices will not go down. Instead they will go up. At this rate, expect it to be in the $4 maybe $5/gallon range very soon.

Theoretically, if all vehicles in the USA were to improve their economy by just 1 mile per gallon, our daily gas consumption would drop down by approx. 1.5 billion gallons. Leave that monster in the garage tonight.

1.) The price of gasoline was hardly affected when the price of oil went to over $70.

2.) Why was this? what is causeing the price of gasoline to be so high is the refineries. There hasnt been a new refinery built in many years and some of the major ones for the south where destroyed during katrina.

3.) Oil isnt getting so much harder to extract...the drillers just arent extracting it, causing a demand which raises oil prices which (if the refineries where doing their job and wherent being shut down by tree huggers) would lower the price of gasoline, diesle, kerosine, and alot of other things.

4.) If the echo freaks would allow drilling off the coast of florida and more in alaska we would have 0 problems. Instead the echo freaks are fighting to have alternative fules made (i have nothing agianst that, ALWAYS have a backup plan) while they drive the price of the current fule up by protesting to retstict it so much.

Solution to all our problems? Ship all echo freaks to france while thoes of us with our heads screwed on right work on accesing current fules while creating alternatives.

[drew300]

This is 2nd hand, but a guy at work has a car that is built to run on 87 octane, and it has a knock sensor. The station was out of regular, so he got premium at the regular price. I suggested this is a great time to check if premium helps. On his 1 tank experience, he got about a 5% improvement in economy, but with our premium at 10% more, it's obviously not worth it.
I may buy some premium for a long trip, to get the better mieage, but also for a nice long drive with more cleaners in the fuel.

[SaabJohan]

The octane rating of a fuel is only a measurement on the fuels resistance to detonation. Nothing else! Octane rating of a fuel is measured in Cooperative Fuels Research single cylinder variable compression test engine. That engine is equipped with sensors which can register knock intensity, it also has a four bowl carburettor so you easily can switch between the test sample and the reference fuels. The two common reference fuels are n-heptane at 0 and n-octane at 100. With octane racings above 100, n-octane with tetra ethyl lead added is the common reference, but at very high octane ratings other references may be needed. This do however mean that the octane scale is not completely linear.

In general there is no need to buy a fuel with a higher octane rating than the manufacturer recommends, but sometimes it may be needed, for example if the outside temperature is very high or the octane rating of the fuel is uneven (poor quality).

Cars using knock sensors have an ideal ignition timing. Using the recommended fuel, the engine can usualyl be run at such an ignition timing. So there is no benefit in using a higher octane. Benefits of higher octanes are usually imaginary.

Gas is not gas! Even if the octane rating is the same there may be differences. However, in most cases the gasoline within a certain area is similar since the same fuel and supply chain are mostly used. Fuel of lower quality can have inpurities, contain high levels of sulfur, smaller amounts of additives.

Fuels such as Shell V-Power is a "designer fuel". It's not a normal refinery product but a blended fuel using many different refinery products of different composition. This makes the fuel a bit better, but at a higher cost.

Crude oil isn't the only "raw material" for gasoline and diesel. It may also be produced from coal, biomass and various gases using Fischer-Tropsch. However, today the crude oil price is still too low for this to be an economic success. Using gases is the simplest method, biomass and coal must first be converted into a gas and to do that without soot isn't that simple. Today, for example Shell sells diesel fuel where a part of the fuel is made from gas.
In the future fuels produced from sources such as coal will put a limit on the crude oil price, and also on how much oil is worth to extract. Coal is very cheap and it is availible in large amounts, but the conversion is today costly. Coal and other possible raw materials is in general availible in most western countries.

[shaneland]

Big deal about octane...

Some of us have older cars. Like my Chevelle for example. If I drive it on 87 octane, when I accelerate the valves make horrendous noises. Some of you might hear the little clatter noises when you go up hills?? This is from using 87 and sometimes 89 octane. Depends on the car. When I fill with 93 I have no problems and yes there is a far better run with the 93.

My wifes 93 Olds Silhouette. 275,000 and the inside is spotless. Again, 87 Octane and the valves clatter when going up the hills or trying to accelerate. Go back to 93 and it stops. Do you notice your valves clattering? You wonder what that noise is when you go up a hill? Open your window and listen to your engine once.

I use my 95 Olds to and from work. Thats about it. 87 and I get about 280-300 miles to the tank. 93 and its upwards about 350-400. I did have a tank goto 417 awhile back.

WHY some of you might think theres no change is because you are going from 93 and then filling your tank with 89-87. This is not a tank of true 87-89. This is a couple of gallons (5) of 93 mixed with 10-15 gallons of 87-89...making like 90-91. To get true 87-89 use it for 3-4 tank fulls. Then you will have a true tank of 87-89.

Will I use anything less then 93? Nope. Is there a difference IMO. YES. Is there a shortage? Not necessarily a shortage more like waking up... I was in Iraq for a year and just returned home in June. I also did a convoy up through Iraq from Kuwait and I counted convoy after convoy of Oil trucks going the other direction. 30-40 truck per convoy. The reason arabic countries are raising the prices is because they are becoming knowledgable in our demands. We continue to use more and more. Iraq holds 10% of the Earths entire oil supply. Think about it. You know how Americans are... You deny me I will take...

[534BC]

Octane is just octane. If you need it , it IS a big deal. If you do not then it is a non-issue.

There are normally "Minimum Octane requirements" as long as the minimum is met then that's what's important.

[bluevp00]

Using a higher octane to remedy an engine issue (i.e. valve clatter) is just a band aid solution, it's not a fix to the problem. Also, I don't know how octane has any relationship with valve clatter, octane is a resistance to combustion (piston knock), how can that affect valve clatter? Does anyone know?

[534BC]

Detonation is being mistaken for valve clatter.

[bluevp00]

Thats what I figured was happening.

[drew300]

Yes, octane rating is the resistance to detonation. With a higher number, the car can advance it's timing, and increase fuel economy. It's worked on every car that I could change the timing on, but now I have to let the computer do it.

[MishaA]

Pretty good write-up from Federal Trade Commission on this, for those who are still not convinced:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm

[534BC]

Originally Posted by drew300

Yes, octane rating is the resistance to detonation. With a higher number, the car can advance it's timing, and increase fuel economy. It's worked on every car that I could change the timing on, but now I have to let the computer do it.

I can go along with that. Would my 95 blazer obd2 automatically adjust timing up? I kinda doubt it.

[534BC]

Now that I think about it, I am wondering if any cars are normally "on the edge" od detonation enough that they are relying upon the knock sensor for timing control?

In other words the timing is not normally being retarded because of knock sense so that increase in octane will not advance timing any.

[drew300]

My '85 VW was automatically adjustable. It ran well on hitest (recommended), but it wouldn't knock on regular, just not as quick and worse mileage.
I think anything with a knock sensor would adjust, but I could be wrong.

[MishaA]

Originally Posted by 534BC

In other words the timing is not normally being retarded because of knock sense so that increase in octane will not advance timing any.

Yes, this is almost exactly how any car comes tuned from the factory.
There is always an optimum timing in terms of power and efficiency(mileage), and every car is designed and tuned so it uses this optimum timing on recommended gas without detonation. To make most out of the engine, detonation zone starts just a couple of degrees off the optimum timing when using recommended fuel.