The Enzo's future Nemisis

[Sticky]

Yeah, dont' forget Mercedes is also in on the project. It may say chrysler, but from what I've read in Motortrend, it's mostly Mercedes engineering.

[V8slayer]

And that makes me ask WHAT THE F--K ARE MERC DOING?

They go to all this trouble to bring us the SLR. Then, only a few months after its launch, they release the CL65, the SL65 and the CLK DMT (I think that's right). Now, they bring out this 800+bhp monster.

I don't think those cars are all the same. But they're all very expensive, very fast two door cars.

There's only so many rich people. Some couldn't care less about cars. Some may like a nice car but it's the RR's and Bentleys that attract them. So the "very rich to super rich speed addict" is a small enough segment as it is. And Daimler Chrysler will soon have five cars in that segment? Can anyone seriously say that those cars won't be taking sales from each other?

[blindside.AMG]

Originally Posted by V8slayer

And that makes me ask WHAT THE F--K ARE MERC DOING?

They go to all this trouble to bring us the SLR. Then, only a few months after its launch, they release the CL65, the SL65 and the CLK DMT (I think that's right). Now, they bring out this 800+bhp monster.

I don't think those cars are all the same. But they're all very expensive, very fast two door cars.

There's only so many rich people. Some couldn't care less about cars. Some may like a nice car but it's the RR's and Bentleys that attract them. So the "very rich to super rich speed addict" is a small enough segment as it is. And Daimler Chrysler will soon have five cars in that segment? Can anyone seriously say that those cars won't be taking sales from each other?

You have to know Mercedes owners. They have VERY particular tastes. Somone looking for the CL65 isn't looking for the SLR, someone looking for the CLK-DTM is not looking for the SL65, and someone looking for the ME-Four Twelve is not looking for the said Mercedes. They are all very different, you kind of have to drive and experience them to know this. I doubt if any of these cars will draw sales away from each other, but even if the do, it's all going to the same place anyways.

[crayzayjay]

The CL&SL65 will certainly be taking sales away from the SLR.

[blindside.AMG]

Originally Posted by crayzayjay

The CL&SL65 will certainly be taking sales away from the SLR.

I have a very hard time believing the SLR will have trouble selling because of the 215 and 230. Whoever is going to buy a SL65 or CL65 over and SLR because of the price wasn't going to be paying the high bid at the auction anyway.

[Layla's Keeper]

Hey Moppie, you forgetting the Riley & Scott MkIII?




Last I remember, ol' slabnose was the better choice when compared with its IMSA WSC contemporary, the Ferrari 333SP.

How about the Chevy Intrepid GTP car?




Top end of only 178 down the Watkins Glen backstretch compared the the 962's 212mph top end, however the Intrepid was only .5 seconds slower.

[VQuick]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is aerodynamics. The Chrysler ME412 is supposed to be capable of 248mph or something. Okay, fine. What about lower speeds? When you build something to be aerodynamically functional at such high speeds, you compromise performance at lower, more common speeds. Basically, this car could do very well at the Bonneville Salt Flats or the Nardi Bowl, but results would be different at an actual course like Laguna Seca, for example.

This will be/is a problem for the Bugatti Veyron, as well. I still think they're working on finding a tire manufacturer that will make something that will work on the Veyron.

[5 Point 7]

Originally Posted by VQuick

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is aerodynamics. The Chrysler ME412 is supposed to be capable of 248mph or something. Okay, fine. What about lower speeds? When you build something to be aerodynamically functional at such high speeds, you compromise performance at lower, more common speeds. Basically, this car could do very well at the Bonneville Salt Flats or the Nardi Bowl, but results would be different at an actual course like Laguna Seca, for example.

This will be/is a problem for the Bugatti Veyron, as well. I still think they're working on finding a tire manufacturer that will make something that will work on the Veyron.

UHHH...What's so slow about 0-60 in UNDER 3 seconds????

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by 5 Point 7

UHHH...What's so slow about 0-60 in UNDER 3 seconds????

UHHH...Where did I say that was slow?

I said that performance will be compromised. You go for stability at almost 250mph where you'll almost certainly be traveling in a straight line, and you'll sacrifice some performance at slower speeds where you'd be turning. You can't have both.

There's really no way to get around it without some sort of adaptive aerodynamics, and a pop-up wing won't cut it.

[jcsaleen]

Y didnt they put a standard racing spoiler on it? dosent it have diffusers?The f1 also can come with a spoiler in the hdf kit and still hit 240

[5 Point 7]

I see, mis-read. Understood.

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by jcsaleen

Y didnt they put a standard racing spoiler on it? dosent it have diffusers?The f1 also can come with a spoiler in the hdf kit and still hit 240

It's easy to do that kind of thing with a purpose built race car. Building a production car places many more restrictions on the design.

[V8slayer]

I have read or heard nothing to suggest that the grand-daddy of supercars the McLaren F1 has any dynamic problems at lower speeds, yet it holds the current production car record of 241,7mph set at nardo.

Having said that, I'm not suggesting that Chrysler have the same type of expertise McLaren has.

Although, they will soon be owned by the same company. I wonder if people like Gordon Murray and Adrian Newey has a hand in the ME4-12.

Can you imagine that. In 3-4 years, there'll be three models of McMercs added to the list of the other five we were discussing. I guess it's a machine gun scatter shot approach. If you're in the market for a supercar, we're bound to have something for ya.

[jcsaleen]

The Mclaren is a production car it is considered the fastest production car in the world.

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by V8slayer

I have read or heard nothing to suggest that the grand-daddy of supercars the McLaren F1 has any dynamic problems at lower speeds, yet it holds the current production car record of 241,7mph set at nardo.

Don't forget that only 1150kg(~2536lbs), the McLaren F1 is probably a good bit lighter than the ME412. Heck, even the Enzo weighs just a bit over 3000lbs. The Macca's lower weigh surely helps with dynamics at any speed.

Having said that, I'm not suggesting that Chrysler have the same type of expertise McLaren has.

Although, they will soon be owned by the same company. I wonder if people like Gordon Murray and Adrian Newey has a hand in the ME4-12.

It's highly doubtful that Murray had any part in the ME412. First off, he was probably busy with the SLR. Second, he hates the Veyron, since it's pretty much a narrow-sighted attempt on the F1's top speed record. Murray probably wouldn't be involved with a car that seems so similar to the Bugatti. Oh, and he doesn't like turbocharging. He doesn't like supercharging either, but considers the latter better than the former. He prefers normal aspiration, but gave in and allowed a blower on the SLR.

Can you imagine that. In 3-4 years, there'll be three models of McMercs added to the list of the other five we were discussing. I guess it's a machine gun scatter shot approach. If you're in the market for a supercar, we're bound to have something for ya.

Murray is supposed to be interested in working on smaller cars next. There'll be a baby McMerc, and who knows, he might work on an A-class or an SLK or something.