Looking at buying a 84

[dolmstead2007]

Im looking at buying a 84 Fiero that needs a engine it has the 4 cyl and the 4spd manual how hard is this to do? Im very mechanical have done a few engine swaps in trucks but never something like this. It comes with a spare engine and a the body panels for another. For the price it sounds like a deal but not sure on how hard whole engine changing is in a Fiero any suggestions is appreciated. Thanks Dave

[Old Lar]

Although I've not done an engine swap (helped on some), replacing the 84 engine with the same 2.5L engine is the easiest of swaps. The rear cradle can be dropped out the bottom as a unit, take off old and put in new. Keep track of wires etc and connectors, sensors.

[MrPbody]

What Old Lars says is correct. It must be said, though, it is not trivial getting the engine out the bottom. The car must be at leas 5' in the air to accomplish this. It's much easier if you have access to a two-post (outboard) lift.

Is the replacement another '84 Fiero engine? Or is it just another "R" Code 2.5? If it's an '84 Fiero engine, I would recommend installing new connecting rods before you put it in the car. All the rumors of fires are directly related to the rods in an '84 engine. GM forced Pontiac to use flawed rods to expidite production and hamper reliability. You must remember, in '84, Corvette's first "NEW" design emerged. Chevy had a billion dollars invested in the engineering, and the thing HAD to sell. Today, we would never consider a Fiero could "steal" sales from 'Vette, but Chevy worried about it back then. The '85 Fiero didn't have the problem.

Lastly, if you DO buy it, take the vent "covers" off the rear. Get a set from an '85 or '86. Remove the screens from the inside and use them. The biggest "killer" of Fiero engines and electronics was the lack of air circulation under the hood. Save the originals for "show purposes".

Jim

[Ragtop_Renegade]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

...GM forced Pontiac to use flawed rods to expidite production and hamper reliability. You must remember, in '84, Corvette's first "NEW" design emerged. Chevy had a billion dollars invested in the engineering, and the thing HAD to sell...

Say what? GM was willing to risk enraging consumers, lose money hand over fist from recall and warranty service, and possibly destroy the entire Pontiac marque to sell a bunch of C4 Corvettes? Because they spent a BILLION dollars? Let me get this straight.....
A 1984 Corvette roughly averaged $23,000
being modest, we'll say there was a 10% dealer markup: $20,700
Let's go with a hefty 100% markup over production cost: 10,350

I'll play nice and assume for now by "engineering" you are including the cost of tooling for the new production lines, as well as advertising, etc in addition to the concepts, prototypes, testing, modifying, more testing and so forth.

So, at our very roughly estimated (with the fudge-factor in your favor) profit per unit figure of $10,350, to break even at "one billion dollars" (when did Dr Evil work for GM?) invested pre-production, GM would have needed to sell close to 100,000 Corvettes to break even. Well, they sold half that - in over 2 years.

Ah yes, there's another interesting tidbit. The 84' Corvette did not go on sale in 1984 - even my "Mopar or no Car, rather push a Dodge then drive a Chevy" buddies know that. It's all too common trivia that the only year there wasn't a Corvette was: ding! 1983! Why? Because the 1984 Corvette went on sale in mid 1982. Yep, early release. (There are pre-production "1983" Corvettes, but they were never sold to the public, and one - only one - is still confirmed to exist, it's in a museum. )

So buy the time our cute little 4-banging friend rolls around, the 1984 vette was already in production for well over a year. I guess despite the "head start" , Chevy got worried the poncho plastic fantastic with it's neck snapping, gut churning Iron Duke cranking out over 90 HP (those radicals!) would kill the y body. SO they had to march to the GM head execs and demand that this monster be stopped. Well, it's only November, 1982, the Fiero isn't even ready for production yet, they haven't even started getting the line ready in the Pontiac, MI plant.... We can just cancel the project, we're skeptical of it anyway, always have been, it's kinda a dumb idea, you know....

NEVER! You can't just "cancel the project"!!! Put down your crack pipes, you idiots, and think for a minute. You must DEMAND that the PONTIAC SCUM build the engines with DEFECTIVE CONNECTING RODS! It is simply the ONLY WAY!
Why is that? We kinda like our cancel the project idea... what's your logic behind this whole bad rod theory? 'CUZ WE ARE THE VETTE PEOPLE, YOU DOLTS!!!

Oh, well now that you put it that way... Oh, by the way, the Pontiac guys are asking for funding to add a V6 to the lineup if this thing sells, what do you think?

Yea, that's cool....


No, No Mr. P ... That's not how it works. The rods used to assemble the 2.5 L were indeed "below spec" as a result of a bad batch casted at GM's Saginaw foundry. Maybe the guy responsible for inspecting the molds screwed up. Maybe it was the alloy that was out of whack. Maybe a disgruntled employee sabotaged the batch on purpose. Maybe that employee was indeed part of team Corvette.... Unless GM or the UAW release internal records regarding the investigation into the incident, the world may never know.... But one thing is certain: it's not a giant corporate conspiracy. Somebody f*ed up, everyone in Saginaw got chewed a new one, recalls were made, the PR department took over damage control, and the Fiero lived till '88.

*end of proven facts*

There is some truth to the rumors of Fiero and Corvette butting heads. In the 1960's, There was this guy at Pontiac. He had this crazy idea to dump the big bad bonnie's big block in a Tempest and offer a bland no frills base package - maybe some cool wheels.... those neat red line tires.... but nothing over the top.... gotta be cheap... hey, the kids are gonna love it! The man's name (aw, who doesn't know this!) Was John Z DeLorean. Thus began the muscle car era, and the golden age of the American V8. Well, now it's a few years later and he's got a new plan - it's a 2 seat mid engine car with a non metallic body. Sound familiar? Well he pitches the idea to Pontiac, who only took a split second to look at how many numbers before the decimal point the GTO was landing them before deciding hey, we thought he was crazy then.... Heck, let's do it. But up at the top of the Ladder they hit a snag. Indeed, the big guys said hey John, we're not doubting you here, but a little car with 4 wheel IRS and the motor in the back? We have that, it's called a Corvair. This dude named Nader has been hard core player hating on us and things are so bleak we doubt we'll see it past the 69 model year. So DeLorean says, yea but this is a MID engine, not rear, and these body panels I'm thinking of are gonna save a fortune in production costs vs. steel.
Yea, but...

But what?

But Shinoda's 2 seater fiberglass POS is over budget, AND behind schedule. We can't afford to risk another overpriced undersold Jaguar knock-off right now, especially the Nader bait you're thinking of. Sorry John, there will be a time... but it sure as hell isn't now.

Fast forward to 1980. We all known what happened to DeLorean in the meantime, but his idea never disappeared.... nope, when Pontiac decided they needed a gas-crisis cruiser to unleash on the world, they told the designers to get on in, and what's his name found a dusty old file folder with concept drawings of a mid engine car with a non-metallic body. He proceeded to rip off the idea, got it working by hacking together a half citation half chevette franken-car put together in a nice tidy unit-frame by the good 'ol coachbuilders down at Fischer, and the rest was history.

So the legend goes.....

There have been rumors that the vette played as much of a role in the fieros untimley death as it did it's delayed life. Hushed voices claim that deep in the R&D center exist test mule 89/90 concept Fieros - we do know one does exist for certain, GM has shown it with it's DOHC V6 , the same engine that made it into the FWD Grand Prix..... It is said there are others, including the 3.1L turbo also seen in the grand prix. The storytellers claim that the Corvette guys didn't like the well-affordable Fiero getting more powerfull. The final blow, perhaps, is the mother of all Fiero urban legends - when team Corvette saw one of the prototype Fieros flying around the proving grounds powered by none other but their beloved LT series V8. The so-called "GTU" (this name was also pitched for the 86 GT) was never to emerge.... and after a vette loving exec convinced the other GM bosses the fiero was a ghost that would never see another success story, the envelope was sealed. The Fiero was gone... forever.

But hey, these are stories... I had fun hearing them, I had fun telling them. But that's all they are - rumors - urban legends....

You are serving your load of crap as fact....

either 1. cite your sources, or 2. STFU