Blew up again short rant

[Cobra4B]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Does the DSS engine come with a warranty?

Not when you buy it used it doesn't. I have a hard time justifying $3000 on a shorblock when I can get a complete Z06 LS6 crate motor for $3200 intake to oil pan. Plus the setup we're looking at uses a worked over stock block with a stud girdle. A good SBF shortblock with a Dart block priced out between $5000 and $6000 for good parts... pretty nuts IMO... no oil pan no nothing... shortblock only.

[eric1h]

A few notes:

first REALLY sorry to hear!! I blew my first lSx motor before I even got it on track, turned out to be a misrouted oil line........

Second... ADD AN ACCUSUMP!(or dry sump if you're a high roller like KEL!) :-D

Third... add a stand alone knock sensor, they are just over a hundred bucks and will help tell you if you're detonating! One down side to a carb is the lack of all the checks and balances!

The Panoz cars pull some seriously hard G's and a good oil system is key!

Devin got 3-4 laps on his LS1 before it blew due to oil issues! it can suck bad!! Good luck

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by eric1h

A few notes:

first REALLY sorry to hear!! I blew my first lSx motor before I even got it on track, turned out to be a misrouted oil line........

Second... ADD AN ACCUSUMP!(or dry sump if you're a high roller like KEL!) :-D

Third... add a stand alone knock sensor, they are just over a hundred bucks and will help tell you if you're detonating! One down side to a carb is the lack of all the checks and balances!

The Panoz cars pull some seriously hard G's and a good oil system is key!

Devin got 3-4 laps on his LS1 before it blew due to oil issues! it can suck bad!! Good luck

Nah, sorry Eric, I am no high roller. Strict budget on the car at the moment and small race program.

369 engine (996 GT3 Cup Car equaliser............) is well underway and shortblock kit arrives later in Oct. Dart block, Scat 4340 crank, Scat rods and CP pistons. Target for this combo using all my current gear but changing to a solid roller cam and single plane inlet, is around 450rwhp and 410'ish rwtq. No spare money for a dry sump so will most likely add an accusump until either the economy improves or I find the accusump isnt cutting the mustard.

Kel.

[eric1h]

Lol.... Kel, hopefully you caught my intent at humor! I use the accusump and so far kits worked wonderfully!

[Panoz26]

Trust me - Accusump and the correct pan/pickup is key!

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by Cobra4B

Not when you buy it used it doesn't. I have a hard time justifying $3000 on a shorblock when I can get a complete Z06 LS6 crate motor for $3200 intake to oil pan. Plus the setup we're looking at uses a worked over stock block with a stud girdle. A good SBF shortblock with a Dart block priced out between $5000 and $6000 for good parts... pretty nuts IMO... no oil pan no nothing... shortblock only.

Being Ford ain't easy.

Are those LS6 engines still out there new? I thought they were out of production.

[eric1h]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Being Ford ain't easy.

Are those LS6 engines still out there new? I thought they were out of production.

Oh yeah you can buy new ls6 crate motors all day long. They still use them in things like the Hyundai genesis....

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by eric1h

Oh yeah you can buy new ls6 crate motors all day long. They still use them in things like the Hyundai genesis....

No wonder Hyundai have one of the highest customer satisfaction rates in the USA!? Could never get my head around that one until now..........

[Panoz26]

or go with an LSx376 Crate from GM Performace....

I did -- bone stock 370+ RWHP - low compression numbers, so detonation concerns go away -- and ample upwards power growth potential.

Now, fingers crossed that the driveshaft holds up this weekend...

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Cobra4B

Not when you buy it used it doesn't. I have a hard time justifying $3000 on a shorblock when I can get a complete Z06 LS6 crate motor for $3200 intake to oil pan. Plus the setup we're looking at uses a worked over stock block with a stud girdle. A good SBF shortblock with a Dart block priced out between $5000 and $6000 for good parts... pretty nuts IMO... no oil pan no nothing... shortblock only.

Age old story Brian, you get what you pay for in the $3000 Vs $6000 option. If you go stock block and 347 with a girdle, you may get away with it for a season or 3. Just make sure you crack test the block first and then hand detail all sharp edges in the block. Also make sure that bearing clearances are rechecked once the studs/girdle are fiitted. Then again it may split the block within a few meetings and when it does, take out all of the internal gear and wreck your heads. This is why people spend $6000 on an aftermarket block.........to ensure the bottom end is up for the job and provides additional strength for future upgrading.

If you can convert your car to an LS1 for under $6000 and think that this will be more reliable in the long run then dont hesitate. Do it. My 10c worth. I would be wary though of short cutting now with a stock block 347 given that you clearly like to rev the car, as this will be more of an issue once you throw a stroker crank and more torque at a stock block.
and then go and turn it up rpm wise. I used a max of 5800 with the 347 and we short shifted when ever possible while still turning out the required lap times.

Kel.

[Cobra4B]

Kel I won't be the main driver of the car anymore... that's what the silver Corvette is for. The car will be driven by my father and won't be subjected to the same stresses I put it through.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Cobra4B

Kel I won't be the main driver of the car anymore... that's what the silver Corvette is for. The car will be driven by my father and won't be subjected to the same stresses I put it through.

That will help Brian.........!! But.........I still wouldnt trust a stock 5.0 block to last in a 347 road race application if it is going to see some miles. The power that a stock 5.0 block can handle is debated on many forums so I wont speculate on that. I have voted with my wallet by not investing any more in the stock block and getting a Dart block.

I think a sensible thing to do Brian is not to invest to much on internal parts if using a stock block. I.e. there is no use putting a 1000hp capable forged crank and H beam rods into a block that is marginal at 400 - 500hp.

Given this you could probably get away with say a stock block with a Scat 9000 series crank and I beam rodded setup for a lot less. Maybe even $1,500 - 2,000. I have looked at the $$ numbers and decided to wait until I had an aftermarket block prior to spending $$ on good internals as otherwise if the block lets go you have just potentially trashed the lot.

As an aside Brian, have a look at Keith Crafts website. He has a special on at the moment on a race spec stock blocked 347. 600hp and 500ftlbs of torque on the stock 5.0 block!! I see he says he uses aluminium main caps. Keith knows Ford engines as well as any builder out there so this is an interesting combo that I am interested to hear more about from him, especially durability wise............ Weight wise he says it is around 375lbs. Out of interest Brian, what does a fully built up LS1 weigh? Cant remember price, $8,000 odd? Would be a super competitive Panoz power plant if reliable.

Kel.

[Panoz Paul]

Eric1 .... Just lost a fresh re-build of my 302 ; it pulled 368 hp/355 t. on the dyno ... Had it installed ; ran enough to put it in & pull it out of the trailer ... Machine Shop is stand-up & leanning on the mechanic about the appearance of oil starvation & who is pleading no foul !!!
I've asked Josh / John Leverette @ Panoz for a oil line schematic ...
I feel I'm on the same road you traveled , can you share the painful details ??? Thanks / Paul W.

[Rich F]

Update:
Engine builder opened things up. #1 piston detonated & ruined. Appears to be detonation in every other hole as ring gap shrunk in all the other pistons. There was a little scuffing on the cylinder walls. Other than a little valve damage on #1 piston head area everything else looks ok. From a basic repair standpoint sounds like hone all bores, replace 1 piston, replace all rings, bearings etc. and replace valves on # 1.

Unfortunately my builder has no idea what's causing the failure. We were running timing 15 deg idle and 35 deg. full advance 3K rpm. The carb is jetted fat and plugs read rich.

He is looking at all the pieces and parts trying to find a cause. I'm going to send my 6AL-N box along with the distributor to MSD for testing and inspection.

Fuel quality is the last unknown which is now a month old.

Not sure where to go as he tries to sort this out.

[Panoz26]

Rich, isn't the timing a little high - mine is 12 / 28 on an engine with 9:1 ratios.