I've made my decision on engine

[Cobra4B]

Iron block is about 80lbs more than the aluminum one.... LS3s don't like road racing for some reason... not sure if they redesigned the pickup tube. I know Chris Ingle had issues in T1 and GM developed a "new" oil pan for him that looked much like the old batwing pans on the C5s. I know that all of the T1 cars Phoenix builds now have dry-sump setups.

I know that me and various friends have been been beating the snot out of LS1s and LS6s with nothing more than adding an extra 3/4 quart of oil and an oil cooler for years w/o issue.

Best of luck w/ the new setup

[eric1h]

Devin, the two tubes that stick out of the top of the carb already... (there are only two) with the ends cut at a 45 degree angle, he saying he basically made an upside down U pipe with holes in the top, this will still vent the bowls, but not let gas spill out...

With the said, i bought a carb from Pro-systems, it was equal in price to a decent Demon carb, and has been FLAWLESS!, I gave him my engine specs he built the carb, I dropped it on, dyno checked it and did not have to tweak a single jet size!

It is a great, TRUE race carb! I HIGHLY recommend one!

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by eric1h

Devin, the two tubes that stick out of the top of the carb already... (there are only two) with the ends cut at a 45 degree angle, he saying he basically made an upside down U pipe with holes in the top, this will still vent the bowls, but not let gas spill out...

With the said, i bought a carb from Pro-systems, it was equal in price to a decent Demon carb, and has been FLAWLESS!, I gave him my engine specs he built the carb, I dropped it on, dyno checked it and did not have to tweak a single jet size!

It is a great, TRUE race carb! I HIGHLY recommend one!

Yup, thats the mod Devin. The Mighty Demons do have an anti surge contraption (vent whistle) in the top of the float bowl to prevent surge but it is possible that this is being swamped. Braking area that this is happening in is a stop from 145mph down to 35mph.

Eric, not sure what price you pay for a Pro Systems carb but the Mighty Demon I am using was USD$250 on E Bay and was practically new when purchased. Have used Demon carbs on a number of race engines now and this is the first time I have had to contemplate modifying one. Problem may still turn out to be something else so I wouldnt go modifying your carb just yet Devin!

Kel.

[Panoz26]

:o) with the 3 items left to purchase
1.) Intake
2.) Oil Pan
3.) Headers
I don't think I can honestly tell my wife that I am buying a new carb...I will use the BG Mighty Demon until it fails me.

Eric - thanks for the information on the tube - that makes sense.
Kel - would love your feedback when you track -- not sure I had this issue, but you never know.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Panoz26

:o) with the 3 items left to purchase
1.) Intake
2.) Oil Pan
3.) Headers
I don't think I can honestly tell my wife that I am buying a new carb...I will use the BG Mighty Demon until it fails me.

Eric - thanks for the information on the tube - that makes sense.
Kel - would love your feedback when you track -- not sure I had this issue, but you never know.

Ah yes, the thing that every loving wife wants to hear from hubby first thing in the morning.............by the way dear, I need to buy a new race carb today...........NOT!!

What pan are you buying Devin? Are you going dry sump or not? On the header front Devin, take the time to build equal length headers, you will not regret it.

[eric1h]

So, did you stick with the LS3?

and devin, you only drove like 4 laps! ;-)

Kel, I paid @ $600 for the carb, which is @ $60 more than I paid for the Pro-Form carb I tried first, (that carb may have been ok, but it was a vacuum secondary and wasnt working properly)


header project, that's what I am working on now/soon...

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by eric1h

So, did you stick with the LS3?

and devin, you only drove like 4 laps! ;-)

Kel, I paid @ $600 for the carb, which is @ $60 more than I paid for the Pro-Form carb I tried first, (that carb may have been ok, but it was a vacuum secondary and wasnt working properly)


header project, that's what I am working on now/soon...

$600 for a custom race carb seems like a pretty good deal to me Eric. As you have probably figured out I am an avid buyer of used race parts to keep things affordable. Having said that there are a couple of things worth buying new in my view and these are the cam and carb. Will maybe look at that option next time around.

Kel.

[Paul Buxe]

You guys have me scared to death.
I got my LS2 engine built and am ready to put it in the car and now I’m hearing I’ll blow up the engine unless I spend $4000 on a dry sump, wife will just love to hear this!!!
So, is there another way out? Right now I have a Moroso oil pan, it looks like a drag pan with some small side wings. Anyway, on my Cobra, I had a 392W motor and started to modify the stock oil pan by adding a circle track pan modification kit from Speedway Motors. This kit comes with 2 sheet metal wings and trap doors that you cut and weld to a stock pan to add capacity and trap doors to prevent oil from leaving the center of the pan on high G’s. Our Panoz’s have plenty of room for this pan modification and it would add about 3 quarts of oil capacity to the 7 quart Moroso pan.
If you have to have a dry sump to make an LS motor work, so be it, but coming up with another $4000 will slow down getting back to the track.
Thoughts?
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small-...Kits,3512.html

[eric1h]

Kel, I am an AVID cheapskate myself, I historically buy ALL my parts used when possible, except for brakes and internal engine parts. But I learned hard lessons and sometimes its best to start with the right tool for the job!


Paul, per our discussion on LS1tech, at MINUMUM I would do an accusump setup, they can be had on ebay for $ $350 for a full 3qt setup, just add braided hose and a back flow valve.

It's a much easier sell to the wife(or easier to hide from the wife in devin's case than $4000! -D

[Paul Buxe]

I didn't understand the comment up in the post about the "accusump not being fast enough". I would think an accusump with the electronic valve would be ready to supply 3 qts of oil in an instant, thats what they are designed for. Accusump was the direction I was heading, I could also add the additional oil pan capacity with G-load doors for some extra safety. Most of us are cheap and restricted by budget, otherwise we hould have a team building and servicing our cars and we would fly in to the events in our G4's, but that's not going to happen.
By the way, do you have a source on used race parts other than LS1tech, RacingJunk.com,and ebay?

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Paul Buxe

I didn't understand the comment up in the post about the "accusump not being fast enough". I would think an accusump with the electronic valve would be ready to supply 3 qts of oil in an instant, thats what they are designed for. Accusump was the direction I was heading, I could also add the additional oil pan capacity with G-load doors for some extra safety. Most of us are cheap and restricted by budget, otherwise we hould have a team building and servicing our cars and we would fly in to the events in our G4's, but that's not going to happen.
By the way, do you have a source on used race parts other than LS1tech, RacingJunk.com,and ebay?

I would like to see some debate on the capability of Accusumps. I have used one before when I had a car with limited sump capacity and not a lot of room for sump mods.

I am not convinced however that an Accusump is even a close substitute for a dry sump. I see them as a band aid that will help but not alleviate the real problem. I say this as an Accusump will push oil into the engine when a low pressure situation arises. The low pressure situation arises when the pickup in the sump is momentarily uncovered and the oil pump gulps some air. This air still has to travel through the engine oiling system so there will still be some bearing degredation (due to momentary interuption of the oiling pressure wedge around the bearing) but not as much as if the Accusump did not push oil in.

A dry sump on the other hand addresses the root cause by keeping the oil supply to the pump and hence bearings constant by not allowing the pickup to be exposed at any time.

I think an Accusump will help for momentary situations for a period of time but at some point a failure is likely to occur if the engine is continually operated in a starvation situation.

Lets see some debate on this.

Kel.

[Panoz26]

Paul, go with a different pan or at least a different baffle - the moroso is a drag pan and baffled front/rear -- ask me why I won't use this one again, even with an accusump setup (see Kel's comment).

Kel - your points are valid, very valid - but in the end, the dry sump is a band aid too and not what I could call a fix for the real issue.... so, the question is - why does the oil not drain/flow in high G corners - is it a valley issue? Is it a pump and baffle design issue combined? If there was a hi-flow pump and a properly baffled pan with proper drain back to the pan - would that not solve the real issue? debate continues...

I am going initially with the accusump for break in timeframes - I especially like the EPC and the "oiling" design feature prior to engine startup - really nice for a motor that's never had a drop of oil in it.

Once the engine is past it's breaking in period, Ill install the dry sump for the best of the band aid fixes. Wife has approved the concept!! woo hoo.

Paul, I have a line on a brand new Aviaid system for 2300.00 - reach out to those guys - http://www.aviaid.com/ look at the LS-C system.

[Panoz26]

Originally Posted by eric1h

So, did you stick with the LS3?

and devin, you only drove like 4 laps! ;-)

Kel, I paid @ $600 for the carb, which is @ $60 more than I paid for the Pro-Form carb I tried first, (that carb may have been ok, but it was a vacuum secondary and wasnt working properly)


header project, that's what I am working on now/soon...

Eric - correction:
It was a fun filled - 3 - laps.....
LOL

[Gatorac]

I would not consider a proper dry sump a band aid. It is the appropriate oiling system for any engine subject to high G's. If oil is not flowing out of the valley or valve covers, scavenge lines should be run from those areas. That's kind of the idea behind a dry sump. Pump the oil out of the areas it is accumulating to a reservoir that will have oil available for the pump regardless of the G load. I think that having oil drain back by gravity to a pan at the bottom of the engine is more of a band aid.

I ran my C5 Z06 for about 10k miles on the track without an oiling issue. Just the standard over fill. Are the LS6 crate motors no longer available? My current 5.0 doesn't care about oil. I get the red flashing light in 17 almost every lap. It must be made of industructium. I guess that's what happens when your waiting for the current motor to blow up before you upgrade.....

[Panoz26]

I ran my C5 Z06 for about 10k miles on the track without an oiling issue. Just the standard over fill. Are the LS6 crate motors no longer available? My current 5.0 doesn't care about oil. I get the red flashing light in 17 almost every lap. It must be made of industructium. I guess that's what happens when your waiting for the current motor to blow up before you upgrade....

Jim, the industructium made me chuckle out loud on the elevator - got some strange stares ... too funny.

Devin