At a loss with 95 cooling problems

[crom9111]

Hi guys, figured with all the great help I got on my last issue I would try here again...I have a 95 windstar that I rebuilt last year do to head gasket failure. All has been great until a few weeks ago. Traveling down the interstate I blew my top radiator hose and had to drive a bit to get into a lane I could pull off in. Replaced hose and filled cooling system started van and poored white smoke out of the exhaust...Made it home without over heating and did a block test and sure enough the blue liquid turned yellow right away... Did not feel like redoing gaskets and not sure if I could cause I had a ton taken off the heads when it was machined so I went for the blue devil..Followed directions to a t and all went great. No exhaust in the cooling system and the van ran like a top with no smoking. HOWEVER lol..I have been getting air in the cooling system somehow and it over flowes the coolant tank. The water that comes out is not boiling hot, just warm.. I have block tested it a few times still no gases, I have pressure tested the cooling system and no leaks there, I have done a compression test and nothing wonkie there either. Drove it 60 miles today and still expanding into the over flow with some bubbles but did not over flow and temp stays in normal range..My first thought with air coming into the system is head gasket, but I would think it would show on any of the other tests. Can I be pulling air in through somewhere else? Would intake gaskets allow air in? All hose, radiator cap, thermostat and water pump were replace at rebuild. Thanks for any help

[SleepyHead98]

wow, sounds like you have a serious problem. Check your hoses, you Could also just have a bubble in the system. You did not state what type of vehicle this is.

When you put the heads back on, did you make sure the new head bolts would not bottom out? It is possible they did.

I cant say for sure if there is coolant flowing through the intake, but I would think intake could be another source for air in system. (depending on model)

If it come down to head gasket, just redo it. Your going to have to eventually.

[crom9111]

@ sleepy head, did the pressure test, pumped to 16 lbs left it for a half hour and didnt loose a bit of pressure....Oh and it is the 3.8 with 185,000 miles

[SleepyHead98]

I would start simple, try to verify there is no air bubbles in the system. Squeeze hoses and what not to get that air pocket to move. I dont think there is a bleed system on 3.8's but not sure. Might have to get it to heat up twice and squeeze hoses.

[SleepyHead98]

And did you verify the head bolts would not bottom out upon torquing? Sounds like that is what happened.

[crom9111]

@ sleepyhead, going to try jacking the van up to see if that helps bleed the system, no there is no bleed valve on these As far as the head bolts, they torqued fine, compression test after was fine, leak down test was fine so I would say no they did not bottom out and its run great until the hose blew this time

[SleepyHead98]

Was it a new hose or old hose?

You put in blue devil, there was white smoke coming out of back when started. This does not sound good, maybe Im just a worrier.

The problem i am seeing is the thing ran fine, then hose blew, and you put in blue devil to seal block. Block is now sealed (hopefully), and it seems there is air getting into the system.

My question is, why did the hose blow in the first place? Was it just old, or did a major catastrophy happen in the engine?

[crom9111]

Yes hose was just old. I did not replace them @ rebuild, but have been replacing them along the way. Of course that was the last one lol

[olopezm]

It's air in the system, we had the same problem some years ago. the coolant inthe overflow tank would start to boil.

I remember there is a specific procedure to bleed the air out on these engines but can't find it anymore. It was something like this:

- Remove the cap from the coolant reservoir.
- Start engine and idle to normal temp.
- Turn heater all the way and use the MAX setting on the blower. Do the same for the rear HVAC unit if equipped
- Ask an assistant to run the engine at 2k RPM's for 30 seconds.
- Watch the coolant reservoir for the coolant level to drop. Top the level as necessary to keep it from sucking air in.
- Repeat as needed until the level does not drops anymore.

In our case it took 3-4 times, I think.

Hope it helps.

Oscar.

[crom9111]

@ olopezm, seems to be it. still getting some bubbles in the over flow but not nearly as many and it hasent over flown in a couple of days. So hoping that is all it is thanks guys

[SleepyHead98]

Thats good news. I guess I should have told you how to bleed it. Anyways, The previous poster said to turn HVAC fan on high, but I recommend not turning the hvac fan on at all. Just turn the heat up all the way but leave the fan off. Atleast this is how its done on toyotas. You just have to do it twice, (two cycles of cold to warm). But whatever, im sure both ways should work.

[wiswind]

OK, I had a '96 3.8L, so some things were different from the '95 version.
However.....it takes some time to "burp" the air from the system.
EVERY vehicle that I have owned has had cooling issues when there is air in the cooling system.
Some vehicles are easier than others to burp the air out of the system.
Since the system holds pressure as you did, I would lean toward just needing to get all the air out of the system.
1995 was the worst year for head gaskets on the 3.8L windstar. They thickened the wall (and thus the gasket) for the 1996 and newer years....which make head gasket failure very rare for the 3.8L engine from 1996 and newer. However, the lower intake manifold gaskets were prone to fail.......letting coolant leak into the intake manifold....where it could be drawn into the cylinder(s), often leading to the mis-diagnosis of head gasket failure. Since a head gasket job included new lower intake manifold gaskets (they are NOT reusable) one never knew that they only needed lower intake manifold gaskets.

I would recommend that you replace ALL the hoses, including the heater hoses when you can. I don't know if you have that cross-over hose/pipe combo that the newer (1996 and newer) has....which goes through the intake manifold (metal pipe). with the elbow hose on the passenger side......if so...I would replace that also.
At the Rock Auto website, I see a "bypass hose" listed......for the 1995 3.8L, so that must be it......just seems to be a hose for your year....this hose has been an issue for leaks on the newer years and yours is certainly not getting any younger.
Rock Auto lists the heater hoses under "heat & air conditioning".
I recommend this so that you don't have this happen again.
If you did your head gaskets......then you can handle replacing these hoses......and...it is cheap insurance.

As for what coolant to use.......your 1995 came from the factory with "traditional" green coolant, as did my '96. I looked around (not all places sell this) and switched my windstar over to G-05 coolant. It is yellow (often very pale yellow) and Zerex brand has G-05. You can get it through FORD also. If the container does NOT say that it IS G-05 it is NOT.
When I went looking for it....many auto part store clerks tried selling me a lot of things that are NOT G-05....telling me that it is, so read the label for yourself.
Again....it may say for use for G-05 application.....but if it does not say that it is....it is NOT.
So...I recommend either the traditional green as you originally had OR the G-05.
You can still buy either, but you have to look for it.
The yellow Prestone is NOT either one of these....though it is marketed as for "all makes all models".
Traditional Green and G-05 will provide Immediate protection with the Silicate that your original green coolant had. G-05 provides the extended protection that the "long life" coolants provide IF the system is flushed clear of other coolants. If the system is not flushed, then you have the shorter life of whatever was in there before.
The newer "silicate free" coolants, such as what the Prestone yellow jug are, do NOT provide immediate protection and are not happy with less than a perfectly sealed system....in other words....does not play nice with any air in the system (cavitation).
Also....when you add water to a concentrated coolant, use DISTILLED water (available at your local grocery store) and not water out of your faucet.

[crom9111]

Hey guys, some more bizzarness to add to the story Still getting bubbles in the coolent reservoir ( though not anywhere near as bad as it was ) and it seems to have stopped overflowing also....Now to the weird and hopefully connected part. A few days ago the trans. would not shift out of 2nd and was making a weird noise, and the cel came on saying VSS bad so replaced it ( not a fun job lol ) checked fluid and it is way high. I know with these, the trans cooler is in the radiator and have been known to leak coolant into the trans. My question is can this work both ways? Could the trans be forcing air into the radiator when operating then be pulling coolant into trans as it cools? Would be nice to have both issues related thanks again guys for all your help

[crom9111]

link to my facebook page with video of the noise it is making https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

[olopezm]

Maybe a bad/broken shaft transmission oil pump?

That would keep the fluid level high.

Oscar.