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Old 10-15-2004, 05:26 PM   #1
Igovert500
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FAQ..read Before Asking!

Hey guys, I’ve noticed multiple questions keep popping up every other week, and I’m sure most of you have been wanting an FAQ as much as I have...so here it is. If you happen to be a new owner, a potentially new owner, or a new member of this forum, please read through this as it will probably address over 90% of your initial questions, providing you with quicker answers to your questions, and saving others the time of repeating themselves on a weekly basis. Also, if you cannot find exactly what you are looking for in this FAQ, please try the ‘Search’ feature on this forum, prior to posting...it just saves everyone time. Thanks.
And just FYI, I have a vr-4 so chances are that this will be slightly biased towards 3000gt over Stealths and to TT setups over N/A, but I will try the best I can to keep this in mind.

-What are good beginning mods/staged upgrades etc.?
A: The best upgrade guide that I have come across is http://www.3si.org/pages/mods.html
This offers 2 upgrade guides, POWER and PERFORMANCE guides. These are mostly geared towards the Twin Turbo models, ie, the VR-4 and the RT/TT, however some mods apply to all 3/S cars. My only point of dispute with this mod guide is the exhaust. As far as performance, the stock exhaust is already 2.75" wide, and is fully capable of supporting 500hp and 11sec 1/4 times. If you upgrade, it really isn't worth it as a starting modification(in my opinion). The stock downpipe and precats are more of a restriction, so you would benefit more by replacing the downpipe with an aftermarket one, and gutting the precats, before getting a cat-back and hi-flow cat or test pipe. In my opinion, the only reason to swap the exhaust for an aftermarket catback would be if you want an aftermarket look or sound.
Here is another excellent mod guide that goes along the lines of what I was saying: http://johnmonnin.netfirms.com/Upgrades.html
Also, if you have a first gen(91-93 vr4) chances are you have noticed it is rated 20hp less than the 2nd generation vr4s. This is simply because the stock boost settings are lower from the factory. You can easily turn them up to the 2nd generation boost levels by performing the free boost mod: http://www.stealth316.com/2-freeboost.htm
If you just got into modding, and are starting with a stock car, my advice is get an intake, a boost controller, an aftermarket boost gauge(as the stock boost gauge is a POS), turn up the boost to 14.5psi, a downpipe, and gut your precats. This can be done for $400-$1200 and will put you in the ballpark of 400hp and into the 12s. This is just my advice, though, do what you want.
Anyway, after the basic beginning mods, I seriously suggest you do two things.
1) Figure out what your goals are. Are you building a street or track car, what kind of numbers are you seriously looking for. And be honest with yourself. Yes there are some 10 second cars out there, yes there are some 700hp cars out there...but realistically they aren't cheap to build/maintain and you need to be honest with yourself.
2) Take the time to do research into the route you plan on taking. There are SOOO many different turbos, intercoolers, air/fuel/timing control and logging options, fuel injector options, etc. That a comprehensive guide is next to impossible. At this point I highly recommend going to 3si and reading over alot of the comparison threads over there, where many many many products are compared to each other and you can really decide what is best suited to your needs/goals.



For N/A(naturally aspired...or non-turbo) 3/S cars, check out this link to get an idea of potential mods: http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=85924
I don’t have an N/A so I can’t confirm this guys opinions.

A nice set of long tube headers for NAs just came out as well from 3sx for around $700

But remember, moding is up to the owner...go where you want to with it. Most of these are suggested routes to follow, obviously some are necessary to perform before others, but mostly it is opinion, these are all to help you get an idea of what is available. Disclaimer: If you break something on your car or hurt yourself, it isn’t our fault, or AF’s fault.

-mod comparisons...downpipe, intake, bov etc
Trying to figure out which boost controller, turbo timer, etc to get to best fit your needs and budget...check these out.
Boost controller comparison: http://johnmonnin.netfirms.com/Boostcontrol.html
Intakes: http://johnmonnin.netfirms.com/Intakes.html
Plugs and wires: http://johnmonnin.netfirms.com/PlugWires.html
Downpipe: http://johnmonnin.netfirms.com/Downpipe.html
Blow off valves: http://johnmonnin.netfirms.com/BOV.html
Turbos: http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm
Brakes: http://www.stealth316.com/2-brakeupgrade.htm
Fuel Pump: http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm
Pistons: http://www.stealth316.com/2-pistonguide.htm
Oil Filters Study: http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html


-How do I...
A: Looking for detailed instructions on how to do some maintenance or install a new mod, www.stealth316.com is one of the best sites I’ve ever found...always check there first, especially the garage section. Also check out www.vr4stealth.com, http://www.supercar-engineering.com/rubberducky/ and http://johnmonnin.netfirms.com/


Some of the more common How-To’s...
Oil Change: http://www.team3s.com/~egross/3S/Maint/All/OilC/index.html
Changing Spark Plugs: http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkchange.htm
Free Boost Mod: http://www.stealth316.com/2-freeboost.htm
Intake install: http://mi3si.org/techdata/knairfilter.htm
Changing brakes: http://www.stealth316.com/2-rotorpads.htm or http://www.team3s.com/~egross/3S/Maint/All/BPad/index.html
BOV install: http://www.penguinhosting.net/~bigmac/store/RT/dsmbov/dsmbovInstallation.html
Turbo Timer install: http://www.team3s.com/~egross/3S/Mods/TT/TTimer/index.html
Best write-up I've seen on gutting precats, by jstodda79 on 3si: http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread....4&page=1&pp=10


-3s tuners and other useful websites
www.3sxperformance.com
www.importpoweronline.com
www.horsepowerfreaks.com
www.gtpro.com
www.dynamicracing.com

For a complete list of shops that specialize in our cars: http://www.3si.org/pages/tuners.html

Got a ticket...fight it!: www.beatmyspeedingticket.com
Another great forum devoted to our cars: www.3si.org
Random 3/S sites: www.3kgt.com www.daveblack.net
www.3sny.com (home of the some of the fastest 3000gts in the country)

Specs for every year, make, model...weight/hp/torque/etc: http://www.team3s.com/FAQ-Specs1.htm
or http://www.daveblack.net/asp/3SiSpecs.asp
Production #s and more specs: http://www.3kgt.com/dimensions.shtml

Cheapest $$$ Manual boost controller I’ve found: www.HiBoostRacing.com

Looking to buy a 3000gt or Stealth, check out www.autotrader.com

To get an idea of a possible insurance quote, go to www.progressive.com or www.geico.com (check out insurance FAQ for discounts)


-what does vr4 stand for?
A: The debate rages on...Popular belief was that it stood for Viscous, Realtime-4... Viscous coupling is a type of differential that links your front and rear so if the front or rear start breaking loose and lose traction, the torque is transfered to the other set to allow the wheels without traction to lock up again. Realtime all wheel drive with 4 wheel steering.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential9.htm --What is viscous coupling?
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=254947&highlight=vr4+stand

On the other hand, ikOnone has suggested this is simply a guess that many owners have come to except, but ultimately is not true.
Linebckr49 has evidence from a European promo pamphlet that seems to support 'velocite de raison'. A French transliteration of this phrase is Velocity with Reason...on 4 wheels. "Although 'Viscous-Realtime 4' is a good try, it wouldn't make sense nor would it appeal to the average consumer, who most likely doesn't know and doesn't care what a differential, let alone viscous coupling, is."

Why a Japanese company would name their car in English or in French is beyond me...but at least you now know both sides of the debate.



-1/4 and 0-60 stats
vr4 stats are assuming good drivers and conditions.
91-93 vr4s/RTTTs run 13.9-14.1 in the ¼ with low 5 second 0-60s
94-99 vr4s/RTTTs run 13.5-13.7 in the ¼ and do 0-60 in around 4.8 seconds
91-99 SLs/91-96 base 3000gts/Stealth ES/Stealth RT generally run around 15.2-15.5 in the ¼, although some members have claimed times as good as 14.9 This of course is assuming manual transmissions, autos will be almost a second slower. 0-60 ?
97-99 base 3000gt and all base Stealths run mid 16s with a 0-60 of about 8.5 sec. Again, assuming manual transmissions.


-Differences in years/gens
Well first off, there were a bunch of features that faded out over the years and available in only 1 or 2 of the trims, I am not going to address those differences here.
The big cosmetic differences: 91-93 3000GTs were known as the first generation with more older exotic styling. 94-98 had much more curvy styling and is known as the second gen. In 99, Mitsu gave this car a styling makeover in the front and back.
In 95 and 96 Mitsu offered a hardtop convertible version of the vr4 and the SL, known as Spyders.
In 96 Dodge ceased production of the Stealth, so in 97, Mitsu swapped in the 161hp SOHC engine into its base model, making a more economical version available...this was viewed as a serious downgrade by all 3/S enthusiasts.
Now as far as engines, trannys, and internals: 91-93 had 5spds, they were set at 9-10psi from the factory
94-99 6spds set at 12psi. This accounted for the 20hp difference between the 2 generations, but this can be easily remedied by fooling with the boost selonoid. See "free boost mod" if you want more info on that.

I took this from www.stealth316.com:
"The DOHC 6G72 is an extremely strong engine, with an alloy steel block and aluminum alloy heads, and is capable of delivering well over 500 HP with turbocharging. As good as the first versions of the engine were, Mitsubishi decided to make the engine even stronger in 1993 models (starting with June 1992 production-date cars) giving it a 4-bolt main bearing cap girdle (the original used 2-bolt caps with stiffening stays on the middle 4 bolts) and a nitrided-steel crankshaft (the original was cast iron or mild steel). Mitsubishi made other changes, most significant of which was moving the crank and cam angle sensors from the left head (where it was user-adjustable for timing) and into the block (not adjustable).”

Essentially, the following internals were changed mid 92:
92.5 has 4 bolt main, 91-92.5 had 2 bolt main (although it doesn't really matter unless you plan on modding the hell out of it). (ALL NAs are 2 bolt)
93 has forged connecting rods, 91-92 does not
93 has forged crankshaft, 91-92 does not
93 has forged steel inserts inside cast aluminum pistons, 91-92 does not
93 has forged steal 25 spline output shaft, 91-92 have a cast 18 spline.
93 has stronger internals in the transfer case, and is a different design than earlier ones

91-93 had OBDI ECUs and are very easy to datalog, 94-95 had hybrid OBDI/OBDII, 96+ had OBDII
Lastly, in 99 they finally upgraded the lash adjusters(lifters) from 1mm to 3mm to eliminate that annoying lifter tick.


-Differences in American/European/Japanese GTOs
There were 3 kinds of GTOs(3000GTs in Japan), the SR, TT, and MR

The SR is pretty much an AWD SL
The TT is the equivalent of our VR-4
The MR (stands for Mitsu Racing) is AWD with the same 9b turbos. It lacks some of the features the VR4 has, such as AWS and some other stuff, simply to save ~30kg in weight. And it has shorter gears, than the US vr4. It is reported to run ~12.8 in the ¼, and only 500 were made.

The UK spec GTO had the dealer option of 13G turbos, but many stuck with the same 9bs as ours.
(Thanks to everyone who researched and debated all this)

-Records
I was hesitant to do this, because I knew as soon as I wrote this, somebody would probably destroy the old records and this would be outdated, but whatever, I'll post them, but when read, make sure to keep in mind I've last edited this in Nov. '06, and while new records were just recently made...they maybe broken yet again in the upcoming weeks/months/years.

Currently:


Matt Monett from Dynamic Racing piloted the first AWD 3S into the 9s and 150+ trap speeds with his run of 9.73 @ 151.39 running 30psi on a stock shortblock!!!

Later, Chris Hill broke into the 9s as well, driving the 3SX powered T4 car to a 9.98 @ 147.58 with a 6spd. And then later produced the NEW WORLD RECORD run of 9.666@139.08 with a custom AWD AUTO setup.

Chris Hill (3SX) also has/drives the World's Quickest and Fastest FWD SL-TT with a 10.8X @ 147.9 and a 10.191 @ 140.31

Ray Pampena, owner and chief mechanic of Pampena Motorsports, holds the 3S world record of 873.76AWHP / 598.68AWT (702.41AWT w/35 shot)

Here are 2 record lists (maintained by Chris Hill and Matt Monett I believe) that will probably remain more updated than this:
http://www.3squicklist.com/ AND http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/inde...0_Fastest_List

-What turbo do I have?
Stock the Vr4s released in the US had 2 TD04-09B-6cm2 turbos
For ideas on possible turbo upgrades check out: http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm
Remember your stock fuel system has its limits. On the stock turbos and stock fuel system, you shouldn’t boost over 14.5psi or you will destroy your engine. If you upgrade your turbos, you will need to upgrade your injectors, fuel pump, and get an Air/Fuel controller.

-What Oil should I use
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...2&page=1&pp=15


-Common problems and reliability
Common problems are the transmission synchros...it is either a hit or miss with these, they have a tendency to get worn out, and people have 1, 2 or 3 that need to be replaced. This doesn't mean you need a new tranny(even though some mechanics and dealerships will tell you that), but you can buy individual synchros for a $80 a piece from Kormex, and then get them installed at a local shop for $500-$1,000.

Another thing to check with mileage over 100k is the valve stem seals, they have a tendency to start leaking oil when you get up there. If this is the case you will get blue smoke out of the exhaust. You can fix them yourself for under $80 if you are mechanically inclined.

The transfer cases are probably our Achilles’ heel, they can leak, but the good news is they have been recalled, and any dealership should repair or replace them for free. While they maybe reluctant, we have the right phone numbers of the right people to persuade them. So just ask us.

Another problem that isn't necessarily common, but it does happen occasionally is worn carrier bearings/u-joints in the driveshaft. When they get worn, they allow for more play, which results in drivetrain vibrations or thumping under the car, typically when shifting or under low acceleration, but sometimes you can feel them the entire time. Not to be confused with a drained transfer case which would cause a lock-up and alot of drivetrain issues. I will add more on replacing the carrier bearings and/or upgrading to a lightweight driveshaft in a seperate post on the 2nd page of the FAQ.

Oil cooler leaks in wintery climates, discussed in a post below, would cause oil to leak in front of the driver's front wheel.

Active aero malfunctions occur every once in awhile with the rear spoiler, but this is a cheap and easy repair that you can do on your own.
I believe directions are on www.vr4stealth.com

91-93 (first gens) have an issue with the ECUs. Mitsu used poorly constructed capacitators in their ECU, over time they leak, causing all kinds of issues. The caps still work fine, but the leaking crap can ruin other parts of the ECU causing wide varied issues. Generally when they leak you will smell fish or burnt fiberglass from under the dash between the two front seats...you may even see some smoke, and different things will start acting funny. These caps can be replaced for cheap upfront if you find somebody to do it, or you can send them to AVPro and have them fix it all up and do a great job with lifetime warranty for around $270. They have a great informative website:
http://www.avproecm.com/process1.htm

Lastly, the clutch slipping. If the car has been abused from many hard launches, or has over 400hp from modifications the shortcomings of the stock clutch become evident and it may begin to slip.

It is just like any other car...the 3/S are average in reliability, not excellent, but not bad. If they have been abused and maltreated by previous owners, then chances are you may experience one of the above problems. If the previous owners have been good to it, then chances are it will be in good shape. I’ve heard of 3/S cars running well over 200k, one even up to 413k miles. They are just like any other car, they have specific problem spots, so when you test drive it, race it around, shift through the gears pretty hard, and make sure you don't get grinding and such. Also make sure you aren't getting smoke coming out the exhaust, or oil leaking from the T-case or oil cooler lines. Then just check all the normal stuff, get a mechanic to check it out...etc

-Lifter Tick
Taken from www.3sxperformance.com:
“TICK-TICK-TICK-TICK-TICK... Does your car have the infamous lifter tick? You can upgrade to the later ‘3rd Generation’ lash adjusters which offer a HUGE improvement in oil circulation in the heads, thus virtually eliminating the ticking sound that incessantly emanates from the top of your motor. While the opening at the top of the lash adjusters in the 91-96 cars is less than 1mm, the opening in these is 3mm, allowing for much better lubricated rocker arms and a quieter, non-ticking ‘time bomb’ motor. ;-)”

Later 3rd Gen lifters are available for around $300 at most 3S shops, but if you check for current group buys on 3si, or ask around, recently they have become available for as low as $115.
If you don’t have the money and it is starting to get annoying, just remember it isn’t causing any harm. Typically, this is just a sign that you need an oil change. Change your oil and filter, some suggest Redline oil and OEM filters. More on lifter tick below.

-Shift Boot Replacement – provided by YogsVR4

At one time or another, we all have to replace our worn out shift boot cover.
 Remove the knob at the top of the shifter by turning it counter clockwise.
 Pull the old boot upwards to disengage the frame from the console. Continue pulling the boot up over the top of the shifter shaft.
 Make note of the boot position on the shifter before removing it
 Cut the tie that holds the old boot in place on the shifter
 Remove the old boot from the frame that holds it to the console
 Put the new boot on the frame.
 Push the boot down through the frame so it is inside out and place it over the shift knob.
 Pull it down to the same place that you marked as being the original position.
 Place the tie around the leather boot and pull tight to lock it in place.
 Push the boot and frame down over the shifter and push the frame back into the console.

Congratulations, you’ve got the job done.


-tt conversion
http://www.3sxperformance.com/faq/ttconversion/partslist.html
has a basic parts list.
http://www.bobthegreat.com/pages/mycar/mods/turbo/index.html
awesome site by bob the great with lots of picture tutorials
Also check out 3si's FWD forced induction forum, wholy devoted to TT conversions:
http://www.3si.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=53
MORE COMING SOON...

-Dashboard warning lights
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=218305
This will tell you what each picture means if you don’t have your service manual.

-60k tuneup
This is the biggest event in your cars life, if done yourself, you may be lucky to do it for $300, but if a dealership does it, expect $1,000-1,500. Not to mention, it has to happen again at 120,000 miles. This is not an undertaking to do if you lack mechanical knowledge and whatnot. The most important element is probably the timing belt...these are supposed to be changed every 60,000 miles or 5 years, if they break you can do some serious damage to your valves and it wont be cheap to repair.
http://www.team3s.com/60k.htm
http://www.vr4stealth.com/60k-tune.htm
http://www.team3s.com/~egross/3S/Maint/All/TBelt/index.html
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=376006

Also check out www.thepartsbin.com if you plan to do it yourself, parts can be aquired for around $300-$400.

www.3sxperformance.com also sells parts bundles as well for a bit more.


-Pricing value
So you are looking to buy or sell a 3/S and want to know what a fair price is
First check out www.kbb.com They have an excellent site that will help determine a fair price whether you are buying from a private party or a dealership...chances are dealerships will charge more.
www.edmunds.com is another site to help with this.
The most important thing to remember is a car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If someone is willing to pay 50 grand for a car, then that car will sell for $50k, these sites are only there to help assist in determining an average asking price, they are not the gospel truth. These cars aren’t being produced anymore and some people are willing to pay alot for them.
If you are buying or selling a car that has been modified, one important thing to remember is that mods do not add any value to the car, the seller is simply trying to make back some of the cash he/she has invested into their car. So your best bet as a seller is to find a buyer who wants a modified car and can appreciate the money already invested into it, or sell your mods individually and sell the car stock.
If you are looking for a 3000GT or Stealth, check out www.3si.org and www.autotrader.com also remember to run the VIN on www.carfax.com to check the cars history.


-Insurance FAQ – provided by Gateway

How much will it cost to insure my 3KGT/Stealth?
Answer: Depends on MANY MANY factors. Some you can change, some you cannot. They range from Sex, Age, Marital Status, Where you live, What type of car you drive, Credit (not in all states though), if you have current insurance or not, your level of education, your driving record, and a few more.

Usually the midwest states are less expensive than the east/west coast, and also the south. Some of the worst states for insurance are: New York, Texas, Colorado, Louisiana, Florida, California (off of the top of my head)

What can I do to lower my insurance rate?
Answer: As with the first question, there are many many factors determine how to lower your insurance. They range from discounts, to changing your coverages, to moving (ha ha)

Some possible discounts: Good student discount (usually a 3.0/4.0 or higher), alarm discount, air bags, anti-lock brakes, daytime running lights (very few states offer this discount...NY is one of them), good driver discount, renewal discount, homeowners discount, military discount, getting VIN etched in the windows (again, few states offer this), and lo-jack.

Other ways to lower your insurance:

Get older! Usually at ages 19, 21, 23, and 25 you will see a decrease on your insurance.

Raise your deductibles for comprehensive/collision. There are ups and downs to this. You want to have your deductibles at a level comfortable to you. Your deductible is how much you agree to pay first if there is a claim on your vehicle. The most popular/common deductible is $500. Usually deductibles range from $25 - $1000. You can raise your deductible, which would increase the amount you pay in a claim, but lower your cost of insurance. Word of warning -- A lot of lienholders (the bank who gave you the money to buy your vehicle) will only allow $500 as the maximum, but every lienholder is different. Usually raising your deductible from $500 to $1000 isn't the best idea anyways because it doesn't save a whole lot of money....however, since we are taking about the 3KGT/Stealth, and young(er) male drivers, you will probably see a bigger decrease than normal.

Take a defensive driving course. Depending on your state you can take a defensive driving course to save 5-20% off of your insurance rate. The cost of the class is usually between $10 - $40, but the discount will apply on your insurance policy for 3 years, which more than makes up for the initial class. You can physically take an actual class (no driving involved) or you can go online to take the class. 1 800-621-7615 is the phone number to the National Safety Council, they can tell you where/when you can take a class in your area. You can take the DDC online at http://www.nsc.org or www.defensivedriving.com.

Try your best to keep your driving record clean. Insurance companies will surcharge for any activity for 3 years. Get a ticket, it's stuck with you for a while.

General tips for insurance
Know your insurance policy. Know what coverages you have and what they do for you. Some coverages are required, which means you can not remove them, and other coverages are optional, which means you can remove them if you want. Some require written signature to reject, some don't. If you have good health insurance, you might think about rejecting Uninsured Motorist coverage. This covers you if you get into an auto accident and the other person is at fault and doesn't have insurance. If you have health insurance, then usually you are covered anyways...no need in paying for the coverage twice. Also is "medical payments" or "pip" (personal injury protection). This covers you if you are hurt in an auto accident, regardless of fault. Same as before, if you have medical insurance, you might not need this coverage. Medical payments is ALWAYS optional/rejectable. PIP is SOMETIMES optional/rejectable and sometimes required.

Add road service! It usually costs $.50 - $3/month. Well worth it if you ever need a tow/lock yourself out/run out gas/flat tire/need a jump start.

Rental Reimbursement -- covers most of the cost of a rental car while yours is in the shop due to a comprehensive/collision claim. Usually this costs $2-$5 a month. If you only have 1 vehicle, it's usually a good idea. If you have an extra car at your disposal if something happens to your main vehicle, then this might not be needed.


Car Detailing – provided by YogsVR4

Nothing you do to your cars appearance is more important then keeping it clean. A great source on the ‘how to’ of keeping our cars clean (or any other car for that matter is) http://www.team3s.com/FAQdetailing.htm#Detailing%20Intro


Here a few dos and don’ts to remember.
DO

 Wash the car regularly. The car gets a buildup of road grime, pollen, sap, salt regardless of how nice the weather seems.
 Remove any bird droppings, water spots or other contaminates as soon as possible. They will eat through your finish and mar the paint.
 Use high quality waxes and polishes. If you want a show car quality finish, I can’t recommend Zaino highly enough http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc Meguiars and Mothers are high quality products and good old Turtlewax will get the job done.
 If you have the time, using a claybar will make a world of difference on your finish. (We’ll address this later)
 Clean the chrome! Chrome will flake and peel quite easily if you do not keep it clean. Especially the exhaust tips.
 Treat your leather. Cracking and tearing can be avoided by keeping the leather nice and supple.
 Use clean 100% cotton towels to remove wax.
 Work in a cool shaded environment. Some products say its ok to work in the sun. Good for them. No product ever tells you its bad to work in the shade.

DON’T

 Avoid automated car washes that touch the car. If something touches your car that you can’t inspect, expect the worst.
 Don’t use money raising car washes. These folks are looking for money – not to do a quality job on your car. Please, feel free to donate, but do not let them touch your car.
 Don’t forget to wax your car after using a claybar.
 Don’t use dish soap. Dish soap will remove wax from the car and dry out the paint. The only exception to this is if you plan on polishing and waxing the car immediately after washing it this way. I would argue against, it, but the jury isn’t completely with me.
 Don’t use rubbing compounds on our cars. Nothing more abrasive then the claybar.
 Don’t be in a hurry. Treat your baby with time and care and she’ll shine for years.

The Claybar

This is one of the things not many people do but can have a huge impact on your cars appearance. Clay barring does not damage the paint. Not paying attention to what you are doing can do that. Follow these simple steps and you will strip away paint imperfections, distortions and get the surface silky smooth.

Wash the car.
Dry the car.

Now you’re ready to use the claybar.

1 Use plenty of lubricant – this cannot be stressed enough. You cannot use too much.
2 Use only fresh, clean clay
3 Use a very light hand with the clay
4 Stretch and refold the clay frequently
5 On the area you are working on, only use the clay until it passes the plastic bag test

I prefer to use finishing spray as the lubricant for the claybar. Others do recommend using soapy water. The choice is yours, but I live in northern Michigan where the salt, sap and bird dropping flow and my finish shines like the day it was new.

Put your hand in a thin plastic bag and rub it on the surface, the bag will stick and feel bumpy on spots with imperfections. Spay on the lubricant and lightly rub your claybar over the surface. (remember to fold often) You’ll feel the surface become smooth again and see the imperfections taken out of the paint.

Continue this process until the car has been fully inspected and rubbed down with the claybar.

Follow that up by washing the car again. If you have swirl marks in your paint, this is the perfect time to address them. There are many swirl mark removers out there. Follow their directions and you can remove or greatly reduce the swirls.

Now your cars paint is ready for a polish and wax. I always use Zaino car products to polish and wax my Spyder and I use Turtlewax on my other cars (other then the Delorean which has its own unique finish).

It is important that you at least wax your car. After using the claybar, there is no wax left on the areas you treated.


Final Note:
We want to keep this FAQ clean, organized, and most importantly 100% correct. So if you have anything to add, suggest, correct, etc. Feel free to post it. It will be reviewed and then possibly added...however, once it has been reviewed, I will delete the original post to keep it organized and also to keep this thread from reaching 1,000 pages. So please do not post comments that do not have useful information. And please do not get upset if your post gets deleted due to ‘Spring Cleaning’...Thanks to all who contributed
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-K&N FIPK
-Proboost mbc
-Cusco front + rear strut bars
-Greddy type-s
-ATR downpipe
-no cats
-15Gs, 3sx aluminum pulley, FMIC, SAFC, walboro pump, EVO 560ccs, and Meth Injection Kit all waiting to go in shortly.

Your 1996 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 is the 92nd out of the 315 that were made that year. Only 21 of which are exactly identical.

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Old 10-15-2004, 09:32 PM   #2
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NICE WRITEUP!!!

everyone here ows you, i bet this took you a really long time. one thing i wanted to add though is i am pretty sure that the VR-4 standing for viscous real time four idea is nothing more than a guess that has somehow become fact because so many people quote it on the internet and with each time someone learns it and tells someone else, they make it sound more like fact rather than a guess. as i have said, it makes sense but i am pretty sure it is just a guess. see my posts that i made not too long ago about this here: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=294972

notice in there how i said that the MR's ran about 12.5 stock when it is really about 12.6-12.8 and i was the one who did all that research in the other thread about them i am a dumbass lol

also, lol, i thought this thread was called Fag...read before asking because it was underlined lol. might want to change that to FAQ not Faq

again, very very good post, thanks
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Old 10-17-2004, 03:21 AM   #3
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Re: Faq..read Before Asking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikOnone
one thing i wanted to add though is i am pretty sure that the VR-4 standing for viscous real time four idea is nothing more than a guess that has somehow become fact because so many people quote it on the internet and with each time someone learns it and tells someone else, they make it sound more like fact rather than a guess. as i have said, it makes sense but i am pretty sure it is just a guess.
yes, it is just a guess. once perusing pictures of the 3000GT, i stumbled across a promotional pamphlet for the European spec 3000GT. The descriptions and captions were in German and French, and i vaguely recall the mention of velocite de raison. A French transliteration of this phrase is Velocity with Reason. I have sinced cut just the pictures out from the descriptions, and deleted the originals. One of the pictures that i found in the promotional pamphlet is now the picture in my sig.

I found one guy on cardomain who can back up this information on the pictures---see the similiarity between my sig and his pics: http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/333253/3.

Another guy on cardomain states that VR4 stands for VELOCITY WITH REASON ON 4 WHEELS.(http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...1&cat=10&val=1). This substantiates what i read in the Euro spec promotional pamphlet. As you can tell, this is a catchy phrase which evokes with passion and simplicity the concept behind the VR4. Although "Viscous-Realtime 4" is a good try, it wouldn't make sense nor would it appeal to the average consumer, who most likely doesn't know and doesn't care what a differential, let alone viscous coupling, is.

Just thought i'd clear this up and actually back it up with other info. So the long-forgotten true meaning of VR4 has been remembered and revealed.
-----------------
EDIT: I saw this line in someone's sig on 3Si. it caught my eye, then i remembered: "that's the exact phrasing!". i can't remember where/when i saw it, but its the one, trust me. the line read VR-4: "Velocity with Reason secured by four of everything". when Deft Spyder (www.deftracing.com) finally edits and publishes his video interview with the Mitsubishi designer, we'll be able to have confirmation on this.
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K&N | long tube headers | 3sx crank pulley| testpipe | Addco front/rear sway bars (3SX) | rear strut bar & front 3-point strut bar (by JonVr4 on 3Si) | solid motor mounts | LSD insert | KYB GR-2 struts | intrax springs | adj. control arms | ss brake lines | 16% taller 5th gear (teamrip.com) | H4 conversion | push-button start | datalogger | HKS S-AFR | PLX WB O2
coming soon: adj. cam gears | bi-xenon HID retrofit

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Old 10-19-2004, 08:25 PM   #4
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Re: Faq..read Before Asking!

UNder the NA mods you linked to the "NA upgrade bible" on us3s. that is a copy of this thread from 3si http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=85924

the 3SI thread has much more information and discussion. I think it would be a better resource.
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Old 10-28-2004, 02:04 PM   #5
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Winterizing

First step is to make sure you have the security number because you will be taking out the battery which will reset the system after you put it back in.

Indoors is better then not.
Heated is better then not.
Carcover is better then not.
  • Clean the car.
  • Wax the car. There is no such thing as waxing it to many times.
  • Vacuum the interior. Wash the carpeting if you can.
  • If indoors and on concrete, put down a heavy piece of plastic to prevent condensation on the undercarriage.
  • Take out the spark plugs
  • Put oil into the cylinder and hand turn it a dozen times to make sure everything is coated.
  • Put the plugs back in. Some people think you should put some anti-seazing on them, but I haven't had any issues.
  • Disconnect and take out the battery. Store in a dry warm place (or it will discharge faster)
  • Put some grease (or WD-40) on the door, trunk and hood latches so they don't get rusty.
  • Check all fluid levels and make sure they are filled. You are allowed to skip the window washer fluid level.
  • To prevent mice from finding a new home, either load up the engine bay with moth balls, or stuff rags into the intake.
  • Jack up the car. You may want to take off the rims and store them seperately.
  • If outdoors, take off the wiper blades so they don't get stuck to the window.
In the spring do the following (the order isn't all that important. Its obvious in some spots). Take out the mothballs and rags. Put the tires back on. Lower the car. Charge the battery. Put the batter in. Reenter your security code. Change the oil. Start the car. Enjoy the summer.













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Old 10-29-2004, 09:23 PM   #6
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If you're considering a 5 Speed Conversion, consider this.

Well seeing how I just finished my 5-Speed conversion I figured I would make a thread telling what's involved since I couldn't find any when I started:

Here's the specifics of my conversion: I have a 94 SL and put a 5-Speed out of a 93 into it, some of the parts, such as axles, MAY not apply to all years, i'm not sure but it isn't hard to find out.

First, here's the parts you need:

- 5-Speed Transmission
- Flywheel
- Clutch kit
- Shifter (direct replacement) / Shifter cables
- Clutch Pedal (requires drilling a hole through the firewall)
- Clutch Master Cylinder / Fluid Line / Slave Cylinder
- Driver and Passenger Side Axles (for driver side only the inner axle)
- Starter (they ARE different between automatic and manual)

all of these things combined cost me just under $1200, some parts used and some new.

Second, here's the special / hard parts of the conversion:

- Installing the new brake/clutch pedal. Had to take the steering column down, and move the brake booster back to make room to get it in.
- Drilling a hole through the firewall. There isn't much room under there, but it doesn't take a professional.
- Installing the master cylinder. VERY small space to work in, but once it's in there's only one bolt that needs tightening. *The lines must be bled.
- Starting the car when you're done: There's a shift control connector that will be hanging loose, which used to plug into the automatic transmission. Two of the terminals need to be crossed to bypass the neutral safety switch so you can start the car, and two others need to be crossed to have reverse lights. It's different for every year from what i've heard, but it will be the one that has voltage and the terminal directly next to it that need to be connected.

After that, there's not much else other than testing everything out.

Labor Time: With no experience it took me a total of about 10 hours (ran into few problems). If I had to do it again, i'd say it would take from 6 to 8 hours.

Difficulty on a scale of 1-10(hardest): 4 (pretty easy, would have been much easier if I had this thread beforehand)

There are instructions available for free on the web at: http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualc.../3s/index.html

The new 5-speed will require 75W-90 Gear Oil, don't put automatic transmission fluid in it like I almost did.

Last edited by Technical_Automan; 10-30-2004 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:47 PM   #7
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Re: If you're considering a 5 Speed Conversion, consider this.

I take it Mike's advice helped you? As for the axles 91-92 were different than 93-99. So if you have a 93+ and get a 93+ tranny they should work. Don't foget you also need the shifter cables. I am trying to think here, we did a 5 speed conversion on my brothers Talon which involves basically the same work, don't forget a throw out bearing too. Make sure you get gear oil to fill the tranny with. That is all I can think of. Glad you got it going.
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Old 10-30-2004, 09:58 AM   #8
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Nope, never heard back from Mike. Ahh shifter cables that's what I forgot, the throw out bearing would be part of the clutch kit. And i'm a little iffy on the axles b/c I have a 94 and bought a 93 tranny, I think they might have changed w/ the generation change. But people will have to find out for themselves. But that's all I can think of, if anyone can think of anything else add it in!
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:15 PM   #9
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The EGR system recirculates exhaust gases (carbon dioxide) back into your intake system, reducing the amount of fresh oxygen entering in the cylinders thus reducing the combustion in the cylinders. Blocking off/ by-passing this system keeps that extra and unnecessary CO2 out of the cylinders, thus netting more oxygen, thus allowing more fuel to burn for better and more complet combustion, thus more power. Also getting you better gas milage. But if you do this you will result in a faliure during emissions inspections.

There are one of two ways to do this. One is to buy EGR blockoff plates. Or for free you can remove it then use the O2 housing flange you already have and find a bolt to put in it then weld it. I'll explan. There is a pipe (about 1/2" diameter) that runs from the rear turbo O2 sensor housing, to the firewall facing side of the intake plenum. This pipe is the "heat riser" tube for the EGR system. Since I removed the EGR control solenoid, and the EGR valve, this pipe had no purpose. What I did, was to hacksaw the center out of the pipe, just leaving the flanged ends, connected by 10mm bolts to the rear turbo O2 housing, and the back of the plenum. I then used an epoxy resin to make a ball, which I jammed into the flanges and smoothed and allowed it to dry. This worked fine on the back of the plenum flange, (it isn't subjected to the extreme heat of the exhaust and turbine side of the turbo)...but the rear turbo O2 housing flange gets hot enough over time to break down the epoxy, and pop it out. So my suggestion is to take a 1/4" drive ratchet with a 10 mm socket, (3/8" drive will work as well, but may be a tight fit in the heat shield) and take out the (2) 10mm bolts, remove the flange from the top of the rear turbo O2 houosing, and either, have the hole welded shut, or clamp it in a vise, and drill and tap the hole for a pipe plug which I would seal with pipe dope (no teflon tape) and reassemble.

Here is a pic of what i did.

Just fine a bolt that fits the flange with out any gab around it. Then cut off the end of the bolt so its flush with the flange. The take a grinder the grind it down flush as posable. Then take a file and file it down the get it to the best shape. Then weld that way the bolt doesn't pop out the top just like i did. Its really easy.

Nate.
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94 vr-4 with 58k.

Mods: K&N FIPK, HKS EVC IV, HKS boost gauge, testpipe, EGR by-passed.

Sound: Profile Chrome and Gold amplifier (200W) and (2) 10" Red Cone Sony Xplod Subs.

Coming soon: Stillen downpipe, DN rear pre-cat, Defi boost and EGT gauge's with control unit on A-pillar.

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Old 11-03-2004, 08:21 PM   #10
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Re: Faq..read Before Asking!

If you get a CEL on the EGR blockoff, go find a 10cent resistor, it is because the EGR sensor isn't getting a signal...it doesn't monitor which signal it is getting, it only knows that it needs a signal, so get the resistor and attach it



For a detailed explanation of this:

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread....2&page=1&pp=10
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96 3000gt vr4
-K&N FIPK
-Proboost mbc
-Cusco front + rear strut bars
-Greddy type-s
-ATR downpipe
-no cats
-15Gs, 3sx aluminum pulley, FMIC, SAFC, walboro pump, EVO 560ccs, and Meth Injection Kit all waiting to go in shortly.

Your 1996 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 is the 92nd out of the 315 that were made that year. Only 21 of which are exactly identical.
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Old 11-22-2004, 01:42 PM   #11
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Addendum to Lifter Tick

In addition to 3sxperformance.com and DynamicRacing.com, i have found 2 other useful outlets in tracking down 99/3rd gen lifters at a very affordable price.

aluminum head service @ 1-800-362-1909-->i was referred here by user MyKiss69 @ 3si.org, they quoted me a price of just over $200 (not sure if the lifters would be new/used/refurbished)

www.store.partsdinosaur.com/index.html -->referred to this site by user dgarret50 @ 3si.org. they quoted me a price around $225.

Again, i'm not sure if these are new, used, or refurbished parts. Definitely check before you buy. If the ones sold by Dynamic Racing and 3sxperformance are new, then i would spend a little more for a new engine internal part rather than take the cheap route for a used part.

And just another note for all those worried about lifter tick. It does not hurt your engine in any way. It is simply very annoying. So if you don't have the money to upgrade to the 3rd gen lifters, don't worry, nothing should happen in the meantime with regard to your lifters.
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K&N | long tube headers | 3sx crank pulley| testpipe | Addco front/rear sway bars (3SX) | rear strut bar & front 3-point strut bar (by JonVr4 on 3Si) | solid motor mounts | LSD insert | KYB GR-2 struts | intrax springs | adj. control arms | ss brake lines | 16% taller 5th gear (teamrip.com) | H4 conversion | push-button start | datalogger | HKS S-AFR | PLX WB O2
coming soon: adj. cam gears | bi-xenon HID retrofit
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Old 01-04-2005, 10:48 PM   #12
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SUPERCHARGERS:

Like most of you N/A owners out there I too dream of boost. Turbocharging our cars is easy and yeah it has been done time and again but lets face it, it'd just be cheaper to buy a VR-4. well supercharging is an option too. Problem is there really are not alot of options, the guys who have done it successfull are keeping a tight lip and not much research to go on.

here is what we know:
Superchargers are belt drive where turbos are driven by exhaust gases. this makes superchargers generally easier to maintain and less likely to fail since the boost is regulated by the size of the pulley rather then the dynamic performance of the engine.
on average supercharger utilize less piping than a turbo set up thereby decreasing the chance of boost leak and elliminate the need for an intercooler.
Superchargers also operate on lower boost then turbos but with higher compression. This means that if you have an N/A you already have high compression, to turbo it you'd need to change out your pistons for lower compression ones, in most cases very costly. But a supercharger will bolt right on and make more power with less boost. so why not bolt on a turbo and boost low? well 1. a turbos boost capacity is dependent on its construction, not always will you find a turbo designed to boost low for your car and 2. boost is generated when exhaust is produced, the more the car breaths in (revs up) the more exhaust it lets out and the more boost you get. the point is with a turbo, you have to rev up and get it to some high rpm to increase exhaust/boost.
Since the supercharge spools and pushes boost in from a pulley you get instant power at low rpm then you would with a turbo. In other words, ther is no lag.

Different types of Superchargers.

There are two types of superchargers. A roots type supercharger and a centrifugal. A roots SC is a big air blower bolted right ontop of your engine where the intake plenum would go. When the pulley spins it forces air right downinto the engine. the centrifugal SC actually looks like a turbo. as the pulley spins it actually compresses air and fowards it into the throttle body and down into the motor.

Available Superchargers for 3000GTs and Stealths:

There have been a few supercharged 3s cars already but some have failed and some are still prototypes for the most part.

Thomas Knight is a name that comes up often. To my knowledge he actually built the first SC for the 3s. its a centrifugal type that uses a jack shaft to conect the pulley on the drivers side to the SC on the passenger side. the problem was the jackshaft had small bearings inside that would break or get stuck and the system would fail. People went through as many as three shafts in a short time before they got fed up and the kit's production siezed. BE CAREFULL! these kits are still being sold out there and if you see a centrifugal SC with a silver plated jackshaft and the words Thomas Knight, STAY AWAY FROM IT!

In one case a marine SC was used to supplement the knight's centrifugal kit. it worked wonderfully, problem is it was one of a kind. still this shows that if you are a good fabricator you can get it to work, as in our next case.

Thomas Knight Eaton Supercharger.
The Eaton SC has earned its name as one of the most reliable roots types on the market, averageing 150,000 miles between overhauls. Thomas knight says it will deliver 80 flywheel hp on a stock 6G72 and can safely boost between 5-7 psi. with upgraded internals the Eaton can push up to 500 HP. If you go to www.boosthead.com you can see this kit and the price.
The problem is that when the Eaton kit comes up so does "fitment Issues". everyone has had them, other wise these units would sell like hotcakes! here are the problems I've come across.
1. the Eaton was too big, the hood would not close. In Mr. Knights deffense I belive this was an earlier model, a M-90 eaton. I've heard the kit on the site is a M-60 now.
2. the eaton's does not line up with the intake manifold, leaving gaps or just plainly not bolting in!
3. the fuel management is weak and can result in lean/rich conditions which we all know spell disaster.
I live 40 minutes away from Mr. Knight and believe me, it is inpossible to get a straight answer from this guy. There is a reason his kits are not so popular and why you always see them on e-bay being sold by someone who bought it (and could not figure out how to get it to work) before. I do have to admit that a select few have gotten thier Knight Eaton kit to work but they always mention "slight moddifications" to the kit before it was successfully installed. So like I said before, if your a bad ass fabricator and know your way with metal, go ahead and try.
The Thomas Knight kit is available for any model N/A 3000GT and Stealth, SOHC and DOHC.

Ripp Mods Supercharger.
Ripp Mods is a small comapny that came out of no where and has achieved light years of R&D for different SCs and different car applications. Thier success can be attributed to the fact that thier products are reliable and work phenomenaly.
Ripp started by developing a centrifugal SC for the SOHC 3s. the kit was finished and tested well over a year ago in 2003. Thier recent project has been a similar kit for the DOHC.
as of 1/1/2005 the DOHC kit is completed and tested, thier prototype made 286hp and 244 ft lbs torque at 5-6 psi.
the Ripp mods kit is a bit pricier, you need to buy additional headers. since it is a centrifugal kit then yes, you do get a BOV, which means your car will PSSSSSTTTTT between shifts! The SOHC kit can be found on thier web-site www.rippmods.com the DOHC kit does not appear but IT IS ALREADY AVAILABLE. just give em a call. the kits come with everything but the headers.
another sweet thing about Ripp is that they offer stages. at least the SOHC kit has up to stage 3 and well the DOHC kit just came out but we can expect to break the 300hp bar soon enough.

contact the vendors directly for personal questions and remember that the future of SC development rests on us, the consumer. If we are not willing to fork over the money, companies will not be willing to fork over for research and development.
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Ported Intake Manifold,
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Prediction.... I bet we will hear about a guy down in Miami thats the King of street racing in about 18 years...Way to get him started....
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Old 01-05-2005, 02:40 PM   #13
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Ever wondered how you can get sponsored?

Here is what has worked for me and a few close friends in the past:

I dont know if there is a said way to get sponsored but I've been at it for 8 years and have had three cars sponsored and about 12 sponsors overall.
First of forget about that "being in the right place at the right time" thats rubish! a sponsorship is a legal contract (or agreement I guess but there are contracts to be signed in between) between you and a manufacturer where both parties benefit through show advertisement.
to get a sponsorship first get your car in the right running condition, if its stock make sure your engine bay is spotless, clean body, clean paint job ect... no one will sponsor a slob.
second: add a few mods, forget that crap about RICE! if you want to get sponsors then forget about performance tunning, you have to invest some buck into cosmetics, "all show and no go" but hey if you want a sponsor its all about eye candy, a sponsor honestly does not care what your 1/4 time is (there are performance specific sponsors, more on that later.)
Third: ok so now you got some show right, maybe not a show worthy car but you got a dvd player? racing seats? custom interior? you gotta have something unique to set your car apart from the others of your make and model out there. example look at our 3000GT, almost all look the same, even the ones with body kits all share one out of three different body kits, this is no good cause a sponsor wants to see something new that they have never seen on your car before! go crazy think of it like a job interview, show em something thats new to them.
fourth:
have a clear plan, I would not want to invest money into someone who has no clue exactly what he wants! my last sponsor gave me 12,000 bucks and said "we need a list of the items you will buy with this money, please include the brand, item number and cost after tax and you must use all 12,000, anything above that will come out of your pocket. be as acurate as possible as this will be loged into your account"
my advise is to make a list of what the ultimate tunner car would have if you where to build it out of your ride.
Fifth:
Here it is chief, the big secret to sponsorships! WEB SURFING. go online to every single company website that offers aftermarket stuff, on thier front page they all have a "apply for sponsorship" link, well 95% of them have the link the other 5% you have to call or e-mail and they will send you an application. fill the application in full and include all the pics they require. they will ask you what shows you have attended and what shows you plan to attend for the rest of the year. become familliar with the shows in your area, if you can attend a few and enter your car before applying then do it. include with the application the contact info to verify your appearance at past shows. a sponsor will choose your car based on 1.current condition, 2. capacity to mod (your plan of what you want to do with it) and most important of all 3. how often and how many shows you attend.
sixth:
dont get discouraged , apply to alot of sponsors as some will never call you back, the more you apply the more chance of getting picked up on.
laslty make sure you understand what a sponsorship is and what a sponsor wants. the sponsor will invest money into you and your ride because it really is the best form of advertisement. you promise to advertise and show off as much as humanly possible.

about performance sponsors: they are really hard to pick up on because they scout, so unless you already have a fast car or race for the SCCA often then you might get noticed or have a sponsored mate recomend you to the sponsor. still my secret is to keep an eye out for the small guys who are just starting out and wont be as picky as the big shots. my friend got sponsored by APC and got his accord fully decked out back in 99 when APC first established itself, when Sony first opened up thier X-plod line back around 97-98 they took on alot of jackasses with ugly ass rides just to get the word out. X-box was also a softy when they first came out.
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06 GTO: SLP Longtubes, SLP Loudmouth II K&N intake,
Ported Intake Manifold,
Ported Throttle body, MAF screen delete.
Tunned by Jeremy Formato. 381whp, 376wtq.
07 Ion Redline: Bone stock w/ factory Competition package.


In response to a race my wife had while pregnant with our baby:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepgclwj
Prediction.... I bet we will hear about a guy down in Miami thats the King of street racing in about 18 years...Way to get him started....
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Old 02-15-2005, 02:06 PM   #14
Linebckr49
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SWAY BARS

I recently purchased some sway bars, the Addco front & rear sway bars off 3sx. these sway bars have a bit of a brass-metal color to them, so a goldish color really stands out on an underside plagued with dirt and just dark everything. they look good, but they perform even better. the install wasn't too bad, but the only way to get the front bar out and the new front bar in is to take apart the control arm. and alas, that means i need an alignment. but i can also see i have some negative camber too, when i put the tire back on. also i figured it wouldn't hurt to re-align the rear tires since the rear sway bar fit tighter than the stock bar. so maybe the new bar squeezed the wheels together a bit.
APPLICATION OF SWAY BARS FOR PERFORMANCE
I know many people have strut tower bars on their cars, but all in all sway bars are the way to go b/c they provide much greater improvement in performance and rigidity than strut bars do. however, strut bars would nicely and perhaps appropriately compliment upgraded sway bars. i've seen many people that just have a rear strut bar and no front strut bar.

k3smostwanted states "everyone i have talked to says that both strut bars make a huge difference on the 300zx and many other cars. my thoughts is that when cornering, a strut bar will help keep the wheels at the same level better, in result leading to your outside tire pressing harder against the ground than without strut bars...with the outside tire pressing harder against the ground it should increase cornering ability."

Musashi3000GT has "heard from alot of the older guys there that front strut bars will stiffen up the chasis but the negative effect is it increases understeer. If you think about it technically the front of the car will roll less so it cant pitch into the corner and yeah, udersteer wil be a little more noticeable. with the propper tires and suspension mods you can overcome that and still keep the strut bar but most people just dont have the time to test out the 50 thousand different suspension set ups to see what works. its intersting cause one time this guy brought up the question of why GT cars all have a stiff as hell front end and can corner so good, the response they gave him was "weight". GT cars dont have the extra weight to pull them away as they reach the apex. No matter how much you lighten up a street car once you corner in, forces will always pull you to the outside."

Igovert500 suggests "2 reasons why many recommend sway bars and a rear strut to compliment them...but not so much the front strut bar.

The first was along the lines of what Mushasi said about the understeer...I read a great article a year or so ago that had great comments/theories on different pairings of strut and sway bars, and essentially the basic conclusion was that stiffening up the rear with both was good, but they only did the sway bar in front, because of the excessive understeer. I wish I could find the article, because me attempting to summarize it wont do it justice...however I cannot seem to find it. (I thought it was linked at www.stealth316.com, but I can't find it.)

The 2nd reason, although this is a ridiculous reason at best, is because many of the front strut bars create obnoxious clearance issues with the hood and battery. Now anyone who really wanted to get one in there, would manage, but it can be a PITA (but honestly, what mod isn't?)"

To better explain the application of Sway Bars, it would be a good idea to read up on articles linked through stealth316.com. stealth316.com>technical-suspesion section at bottom of page. however, here are some direct links to a few articles through stealth316:
for Strut Bar Theory, this is a good read. a little physics and math, but nothing complicated and gives a layman's breakdown of all the forces involved: http://e30m3performance.com/myths/St...bar_theory.htm
this article explains in very understandable detail the concepts of Body Roll, how sway bars work, sway bar stiffness, and how to create the best handling application for yourself adn your car: http://www.teamscr.com/sway.htm
INSTALLATION TIPS/THINGS TO BE AWARE OF
[nota bene: this is for an isntallation on a 1993 front wheel drive 3000GT base model]
I didn't actually take any pics, but all the pics you'll need can be found at 3sxperformance.com--> http://www.3sxperformance.com/installs.asp. I did run into a few problems when installing, and i called up 3sx just to let them know. nothing big, but just a little customer feedback.

I did NOT have an extra pair of arms to help, just did it myself. Though it would have been nice, its not necessary. It wasn't a difficult install, suprisingly! I actually found it tougher to re-install my stock rear sway bar when i replaced my rear suspension.

a few notable things:

1) i noticed that the end-link holes in both front and rear sway bars were not quite large enough to allow the end-link bolts to smoothly go through (http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...ar/image13.html). and so, it was obviously necessary for me to enlarge the holes slightly. The stock measure 3/8", but to increase the hole to 1/2" would have been too large. So i took a drill with a 3/8" drill bit and "bored" out the hole to make it just slightly larger than 3/8". i just bored out the hole until the end-link bolt fit thru the hole smoothly. [you could also use a dremel tool to make the holes larger]

2) when installing the brackets for the rear bar, you must use the mounting plates. i quickly and carelessly read thru the directions for the rear bar, then discovered that i installed the bracket incorrectly. i didn't see how to use the mounting plate, but after a little thinking, i figured it out. as you can see in this pic http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...ar/image16.html on the mounting plate on the far left there is a circular hole (compared to oval shaped holes). no bolt goes thru this hole; this hole is there for the bracket to go around the existing stock mounting nut that is welded to the suspension frame. here the mounting plate is being slid up where the stock mounting nut is http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...ar/image18.html, and here you can see the mounting plate in position http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...ar/image19.html. the stock mounting nut extends behind and just above the bushing (hole not visible in the pic) and the circular hole in the mounting plate allows the mounting plate to snuggly position right around this hole, but flush with the suspension frame. [you can't see this, but you can feel the welded nut with your finger].
Here is a final installed pic of the rear bar http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...ar/image29.html

3) when installing the front bar, the mounting kit came with 4 mounting plates. However, i did not see any way these mounting plates would go on with the brackets. also, if you look in the pictures and instructions, there is not mounting plate used in the installation: just the new bracket and stock bolts are used here http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...nt/image36.html and here http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...nt/image37.html.

ALSO, i had to bore the end-link holes a little bit so the end-link bolts would fit smoothly. If fitment seems a bit rough and the bolt is having a tough time going through, DO NOT hammer the bolt thru for fear of damaging the threads. If you damage the threads and are fortunate enough to have a tap & die set, then count yourself lucky. but if you don't, then you're screwed. so don't hammer the end-link bolts if they won't go smoothly-->rather simply make the hole larger.

4) on the front bar, it is very hard, if not impossible, to get the stock bar out and the new bar in without taking apart the control arm. i tried for about 20 minutes to try to fish it out, knowing that if i suceeded i'd be a badass and i wouldn't have to get an alignment...but i wasn't so lucky. In the caption in this pic http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...nt/image18.html, they say that "In hindsight, it may be possible to only have to drop the inner part of the lower main control arm, not removing the 2 bolts that hold the hub to the strut." This IS what i did. it is not necessary to remove the 2 bolts holding the hub to the strut. all you have to do is remove the one reamer bolt holding the inner part of the control arm to the frame. so you can just skip to pic 24: http://www.3sxperformance.com/insta...nt/image24.html. Now once you detach this part of the control arm, you'll have to move the control arm out of the way to wiggle the strut bar out and the new bar in. By moving the control arm, the strut moves, which merits a re-alignment. so its unavoidable. but don't worry about it. whenever you mess with the suspension, you should get an alignment.

PHEW!~ a bit long, but those are my thoughts on the installation process. just a few bumps i ran into, but nothing big. just make sure you have a drill and 3/8" bit handy [or a dremel tool] just in case the end-link holes aren't quite big enough. that's the only thing that delayed me a bit. other than that, if you have air tools and a lift, that would greatly speed up the installation. since i had neither, and was working on a semi-rocky surface, i had a fun time properly and safely jacking the car and setting the jack stands. BY THE WAY, a good mounting point for the jack stands is on the ball joint of the front control arm (front sway bar installation). this mount point is perfect as its rounded just like the jack stand.

good luck to all, and its much simpler than i made it sound. just a little mechanical knowledge and/or someone to help who maybe knows what they're doing, and you're golden!

ROAD TESTING
Before you go and road test your newly stiffened chassis and uber-handling beast on the streets, it is NECESSARY that you get at least a front end wheel alignment. I wanted to play it safe and get the rear wheels aligned as well, b/c i had just put some new tires on and i don't want them to wear unevenly. also, since the rear sway bar fit tighter than the stock rear sway bar, most likely the rear wheels were pulled inward, so a rear wheel alignment is a good idea.

well i took my car on a quick run, and thru the infamous curve in which i tore up my rear suspension. i didn't push her tho, quickly remembering all the crap i had to do to fix my car from a collision that just took a few seconds. but she feels much tighter in the front and rear. i drove her a bit when i just had the rear sway bar in, and i liked it a lot! then with both bars in, it balanced out, but still very tight. i think i'll definitely add just a rear strut bar to make the rear a bit tighter, and as Igovert and Musashi said, will help with the understeer.

Since then i've driven much and i really do love these sway bars! that's an understatement...these things are freakin awesome! taking corner is a lot of fun now, as understeer is drastically reduced and the car also grips the road a lot better. body roll is significantly less. its fun to bob and weave through traffic and see how much less body roll there is. it fells so good and tight. i think some bucket racing seats would make the ride feel that much better, especially in the curves!
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93 3000GT base
K&N | long tube headers | 3sx crank pulley| testpipe | Addco front/rear sway bars (3SX) | rear strut bar & front 3-point strut bar (by JonVr4 on 3Si) | solid motor mounts | LSD insert | KYB GR-2 struts | intrax springs | adj. control arms | ss brake lines | 16% taller 5th gear (teamrip.com) | H4 conversion | push-button start | datalogger | HKS S-AFR | PLX WB O2
coming soon: adj. cam gears | bi-xenon HID retrofit
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Old 02-18-2005, 01:33 PM   #15
Igovert500
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Re: FAQ..read Before Asking!

Jeff Lucius has just uploaded a 216 page Technical info manual for a 93 vr4. This thing is a huge pdf file that has detailed illustrations of everything. It is a manual that apparently wasn't available in the US, anyway, its like 48mb (so 56k warning), but it's worth the download.

http://stealth316.com/misc/3tim.pdf
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96 3000gt vr4
-K&N FIPK
-Proboost mbc
-Cusco front + rear strut bars
-Greddy type-s
-ATR downpipe
-no cats
-15Gs, 3sx aluminum pulley, FMIC, SAFC, walboro pump, EVO 560ccs, and Meth Injection Kit all waiting to go in shortly.

Your 1996 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 is the 92nd out of the 315 that were made that year. Only 21 of which are exactly identical.
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