Is there someone who can identify this car?

[Orthrus]

Many hours on google didn’t give me the correct answer. Is there someone who can help me with this question?

Thanks

[oldblu65]

Try going to www.hemmings.com , there are lots of people there into unusual cars . You should get an answer there .

[Orthrus]

Originally Posted by oldblu65

Try going to www.hemmings.com , there are lots of people there into unusual cars . You should get an answer there .

Thanks, i will post it there also.

[sub006]

Originally Posted by Orthrus

Thanks, i will post it there also.

Although the grille looks like a late-model Dodge, it appears to be a German Messerschmidt microcar, probably from the early '50s. I have never seen one of these before, where the two occupants sit side-by-side. It also appears to be front-engined. If you zoom in on the windshield card, the faint word "Messerschmidt" can just be made out.

The car to the right of the red car is a more common rear-engined Messerschmidt, which takes two passengers one behind the other. A canvas top which slides back on tracks above the side window frames seems to be missing.

In a very poor postwar Germany, such inexpensive tiny autos provided transportation one step above a bicycle or scooter. They were manufactured by the aircraft company which made the ME-109 fighter.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by sub006

Although the grille looks like a late-model Dodge, it appears to be a German Messerschmidt microcar, probably from the early '50s. I have never seen one of these before, where the two occupants sit side-by-side. It also appears to be front-engined. If you zoom in on the windshield card, the faint word "Messerschmidt" can just be made out.

The car to the right of the red car is a more common rear-engined Messerschmidt, which takes two passengers one behind the other. A canvas top which slides back on tracks above the side window frames seems to be missing.

In a very poor postwar Germany, such inexpensive tiny autos provided transportation one step above a bicycle or scooter. They were manufactured by the aircraft company which made the ME-109 fighter.

It's not a Mescherschmitt. They made distinctive 3 and 4-wheeled bubble cars (click here), (you can see one in the background), but they never made anything like this..... unless it's a one-off prototype.

The layout looks completely different from the rear-engine, RWD Meschershmitt..... It's obviously a front-engine front wheel drive car (probably an air-cooled motorcycle engine, give the size of the grille. , and much more closely resembles a Berkeley. Given it looks like an easly 50's sports car, its probably British or American.


BMW made the Isetta microcar, which was popular at the time. Such microcars were not just made in Germany. The UK had them, too, like the Berkely and the Peel Trident.
The US had a flood of small manufacturers making tiny cars in the late-1940's. Most companies failed within a few years, because the austerity and the 'buyers market' that existed after WWII quickly disappeared, so buyers all flocked to regular cars instead.

The only US micro- car makers that survived more than a brief time were Eshelman, Crosley, and King Midget.

[sub006]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

It's not a Mescherschmitt. They made distinctive 3 and 4-wheeled bubble cars (click here), (you can see one in the background), but they never made anything like this..... unless it's a one-off prototype.

The layout looks completely different from the rear-engine, RWD Meschershmitt..... It's obviously a front-engine front wheel drive car (probably an air-cooled motorcycle engine, give the size of the grille. , and much more closely resembles a Berkeley. Given it looks like an easly 50's sports car, its probably British or American.


BMW made the Isetta microcar, which was popular at the time. Such microcars were not just made in Germany. The UK had them, too, like the Berkely and the Peel Trident.
The US had a flood of small manufacturers making tiny cars in the late-1940's. Most companies failed within a few years, because the austerity and the 'buyers market' that existed after WWII quickly disappeared, so buyers all flocked to regular cars instead.

The only US micro- car makers that survived more than a brief time were Eshelman, Crosley, and King Midget.

Wow, thanks for your input!

The seller of the red car had Messerschmidt on the windshield sign, but could be wrong. Or as you say it could be a prototype.

Of course microcars came from many countries. An elderly acquaintance of mine bought a Berkeley new in 1959 and drives it today. I don't believe they were intended primarily as inexpensive transport but as lightweight sports cars in the mold of Lotus, and were introduced in 1958 or '59, as Britain was emerging from postwar rationing and trade restrictions into brighter days.

I wouldn't consider most Crosleys to be microcars. The first few, introduced at the 1939 New York Worlds Fair, were on the borderline, but the much better selling envelope-bodied postwar models were at least as big as a Mini and carried the same four passengers with ease. And a Crosley sports car (forget if it was a Hot Shot or a Super Sport) won the Index of Performance at Sebring around 1950.

The King and Peel were definitely micros! The King was essentially an enlarged go kart with a body, and one average-sized man could barely squeeze into a Peel coupe. Even then, he couldn't close the windows and drive, because to steer he had to stick his elbows out the windows!

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by sub006

Wow, thanks for your input!

The seller of the red car had Messerschmidt on the windshield sign, but could be wrong. Or as you say it could be a prototype.

Of course microcars came from many countries. An elderly acquaintance of mine bought a Berkeley new in 1959 and drives it today. I don't believe they were intended primarily as inexpensive transport but as lightweight sports cars in the mold of Lotus, and were introduced in 1958 or '59, as Britain was emerging from postwar rationing and trade restrictions into brighter days.

I wouldn't consider most Crosleys to be microcars. The first few, introduced at the 1939 New York Worlds Fair, were on the borderline, but the much better selling envelope-bodied postwar models were at least as big as a Mini and carried the same four passengers with ease. And a Crosley sports car (forget if it was a Hot Shot or a Super Sport) won the Index of Performance at Sebring around 1950.

The King and Peel were definitely micros! The King was essentially an enlarged go kart with a body, and one average-sized man could barely squeeze into a Peel coupe. Even then, he couldn't close the windows and drive, because to steer he had to stick his elbows out the windows!

Good point. Today, we would not call a Crosley a microcar, but, back in the '50's, I'm sure some people did. But, as you suggest, the Crosley is a real car, not a micro.

The Berkely was built to be inexpensive to build and to buy, yet still get good performance due to its very light weight, so they ended up being very small. But the later ones could do an honest 90 mph, much faster than any micro.

[sunsetclassics]

It never ceases to amaze me the level of arcane knowledge around here - someone should make a stump the forum game show and pit various enthusiast sites against each other.

Great post and an interesting read.

[Vombatidae]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but that is a Kleinschnittger F-125. They were built in Germany from 1950 to 1957, with a 125cc two-stroke motor of around 5HP. The oval shape of the grills marks it as a 1953 or later. It's also been abused by having extra headlamps and a drivers side mirror transplanted from some other type of car.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by Vombatidae

Sorry I'm late to the party, but that is a Kleinschnittger F-125. They were built in Germany from 1950 to 1957, with a 125cc two-stroke motor of around 5HP. The oval shape of the grills marks it as a 1953 or later. It's also been abused by having extra headlamps and a drivers side mirror transplanted from some other type of car.

Woo Hoo! We have a winner! Thank you for the info.

http://microcarmuseum.com/tour/kleinschnittger.html