No crank, no start, crazy dashboard...

[TerminalCommuter]

2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue 3.5L 224,XXX Miles.


About a month ago, the car refused to crank, while out but was able to be jumped and started twice. After it was jumped, the analog gauges refused to work and the transmission shifted hard for about 5mins, then returned to normal. Once it was back in the driveway, it hasn’t cranked since, no starter function.


The very first thing I replaced was the Ignition Switch, after replacing, nothing changed, no crank. I then had the battery replaced and the starter bench tested, it tested good. I then tore into the engine bay and cleaned every ground. I found that grounds G113 had the insulation rubbed away but the wire was still connected. I then removed the tape, inspected the harness as far as I could aether way and only found that. The wire and ring terminals where replaced about 6inches into the harness. (NOTE: when I had the pcm disconnected, G113, G117, G119 the key functions function normally, ((I'll explain later)). I then reinstalled everything, reinstalled all grounds after cleaning them and using dielectric grease. No change.


Things I've observed wrong: when the key is in “ACC” the cluster blinks and relays click at a high speed. The fuel pump also works the same way. You can make it stop by using the left or right blinker, then the “PRND123” indicator will light. With key “on” the ipc functions normally but there is no “PRND123” indicators, no fuel gauge reading. With key on “CRANK” the relays behind the radio area click once, the dash goes dark, but the radio and climate controls stay on. I've DVOM'd a lot of fuses and most check out except: dashboard fuse labeled “crank” has ~3V when the key is on acc/on but 12V when on Crank. Under hood fuse box checks out except the IGN MAIN relay and its fuses”ABS/FIJN/OXN..” they only read 7-8V, with the relay removed, the relay reads same voltage too. No other fuses affected. I checked the “Crank voltage C2, pin 23” at the PCM and only got ~3V with key on crank, but 9V with key “on”. I CANNOT jump the “crank” relay, it does nothing.


That's all I've gotten, I have this crazy idea I got a bad ignition switch, or the PCM kicked the bucket. Any advise appreciated. Not having a garage and it being below freezing here has kicked my butt. Thanks in advance!

[Tobey]

Sounds like low voltage/current to me. This exact thing happened to me a while back and I did most of the things you did, replaced the ignition switch and everything. Turned out my positive battery terminal wasn't perfectly tight. I really tightened that sucker down and the car came to life.

So, makes sure your connections are spotless and tight (don't go crazy though, it's soft metal). And try not to get dielectric grease on the contact surfaces, it's an insulator, not a conductor.

Also, make sure that new battery is definitely OK. Can't tell you how many times I've pulled all my hair out trying to track down an electrical problem and it ends up being something stupid like that.

[Tech II]

A fully charged battery is 12.6 volts......

What is the voltage across the battery with the key on? Is it 12 or above? If yes, and you are reading much less than that at the fuses, then there obviously is a voltage drop somewhere....you have more or less checked the grounds......but the drop could be on the positive end at a connection....

So if you read 12 volts at the battery with the key on, and only 7-8 volts at the fuses, you have to work your way back from the fuse to the battery to find the drop.....remember, a PCM won't even function, if the voltage to it drops below 9.5 volts.....

In the diagram below, you say you only have 7-8 volts at the OXY/FINJ fuses....you pulled main relay, and have the same voltage....what is the voltage at the Bat 1 fuse #7? Cool fan 1 fuse #6? air pump fuse #20? If it is 12 volts, you have a bad UBEC....Underhood Bussed Electrical Connector.....could be a bad connection ......or, there are usually "silver" torx or hex bolts in the top of the fuse block.....they may be loose....try tightening them....have run into this once or twice.....

[TerminalCommuter]

I feel dumb, like really dumb. thanks TechII and Tobey, you where both right.

Short version: The battery to engine ground was "bad". I hooked up a set of jumper cables, negative to battery, negative to engine, pos to nothing and god damn everything worked, it cranked and started. The reason I ignored cleaning that one, had to do with knowing it was not even a year old, and it looked fine. I found my problem by following this video with my DVOM. Stupid me. I did fix some other stuff along the way, but man I wish I would've checked that before I tore everything apart.

TechII: Only the IGN MAIN relay, and its fuses where reading below. no other fuses had a low reading. if I removed the relay and checked its voltage(K3) on the output leg it was below(7-8~V), looking back, this should've been a dead giveaway .



Ignition switch (old):




Pics of "upgraded battery cables"



Fuse box connection, alternator now goes straight to battery.

Pics of repaired G113 grounds.





Exactly what my dashboard did, minus getting a fuel pump reading or shift indicator <- after I replaced the ignition switch with ACDelco D1432D

[Tech II]

Main thing is, you found your problem....good work....