2001 Isuzu Trooper Transmission NIGHTMARE "Thread 2"

[funknuggets]

Ok, please advise. I was directed here by some of my friends on another board... but help me out, is this the same issue?

Last saturday driving my 2001 Trooper 86K when it started sounded funny when going about 40 mph or faster and sounded as if it was coming in and out of overdrive... ok. Took to mechanic on monday stating transmission issues. They drove it, did some research and looked at codes and found an engine misfire, and said it was causing a delay or something with the torque converter, and so... $586 for new plugs, boots, fuel filter, etc.. and drove it home. Seemed better. Next morning drove to work... typical commute, dropped kid off at school, through neighborhoods to highway... drove 75ish for ~20 mi and then turned off . Came to stop at several stoplights, started fine. Was rolling along til making a right turn, and it completely slipped... voooooooom, rpms jumped to 6k and I rolled for a minute, it reengaged with no grinding, or anything.... drove up and over the hill, came through another turn, got to a downhill stoplight. Waited for green and voooooooom... nothing. No gears, no nothing. Rolled through the intersection... and pulled over and called mechanic, freaking out (luckily I was close to my work). He told me to try 1,2,R, D... nothing. So I went into work, told my boss that my car was parked in the middle of the road... I went back out to wait for tow, and decided I was too far out in the road... and could move it over a few feet. Started it up, and when shifting to neutral... felt it engage reverse. WTF. Put it in D, drove forward, and repeated 2 or 3 times. Fine. Tow arrived and took it back to shop. Drove it off the tow, and into the garage. They drove it, it shifted fine and strong, but finally let go again. They turned it off and restarted and what do you know... reengaged and drove it back to the shop.

My mechanic decided it was over his head and drove it down to certified transmission... and they looked at it and said it needs a new transmission. Shocker. I faxed them this thread. No reply. My mechanic calls and said they called him and told him it needed a new transmission. I sent HIM this thread. I basically asked how they KNEW I needed a transmission. He said there was a transmission code... would a solienoid issue like this throw the same error? I asked if there was definitive proof that they could prove it wasnt the solenoids... they did not answer.

Transmission fluid is crystal clear.

Please advise.

[Another_Drummer]

Hey FunkNuggets,

That sounds like a nightmare much like mine was...so far it's still doing pretty good. I had my tranny rebuilt and was still having issues. Mine was a process of elimination deal, and it seemed to take forever. When it was said and done...make sure that your transmission is a-ok. If it's good, then make sure that they check the flippin' solenoids and make sure they aren't bad (like they SAID the did on mine). If everything is good...it may very well be an electrical issue. Mine didn't go into R when shifting from N. The shop I took it to didn't charge too much to test the electrical system to diagnose the issue....but thank God it wasn't the wiring harness or somesuch...because it's an expensive issue....between $2-$5K. I hope this helps you some...I can definitely relate to the frustration.

My check engine light is on right now, but I know it's because if my CO2 sensors. And now my brake light. I tell you what...it seems to be one issue after another with this car....but I still like it....don't know why.

[Another_Drummer]

One more thing I forgot too....check and make sure that your alternator and battery aren't giving you a power spike which can cause the solenoids to be a bit 'confused'.

[trooperbc]

Originally Posted by funknuggets

......I basically asked how they KNEW I needed a transmission. He said there was a transmission code... ...

what was the transmission code? [there isn't a code number for 'all problems with transmissions means you need a rebuild" ...]

the code, if in fact they retrieved one, will be a specific system code similar to what the CEL will give.

i'd call them on it.

while the trans codes are stored as are the CEL codes, did you get a trans light anytime?

//bc

[Another_Drummer]

How ironic is it that I discuss this and lo and behold....what happens last night?!?!

I'm driving home and the "Check Trans" light starts flashing along. I was close to the transmission shop so I drove it in. They told me that the code it was spitting out was an undocumented code, which more than likely means that the O2 sensors need to be changed...it's causing confusion and will start to affect the transmission.

So now my mission this weekend is to get the O2 sensors replaced. The transmission shop told me to make sure that I order Isuzu sensors, and not from an automotive shop....he said that the non-branded Isuzu O2 sensors can cause the transmission not to shift properly in some cases.



Everythings clean. Filter is fine, fluids are fine.

[trooperbc]

Originally Posted by Another_Drummer

How ironic is it that I discuss this and lo and behold....what happens last night?!?!

I'm driving home and the "Check Trans" light starts flashing along. I was close to the transmission shop so I drove it in. They told me that the code it was spitting out was an undocumented code, which more than likely means that the O2 sensors need to be changed...it's causing confusion and will start to affect the transmission.

So now my mission this weekend is to get the O2 sensors replaced. The transmission shop told me to make sure that I order Isuzu sensors, and not from an automotive shop....he said that the non-branded Isuzu O2 sensors can cause the transmission not to shift properly in some cases.



Everythings clean. Filter is fine, fluids are fine.

sorry drummer. how is the trans working. you didn't mention, so i'd guess no problem? during the time the trans light was flashing, did you come to a stop, and then did the trans go into limp mode?

as to the shop's statements, sound like they are blowing smoke to me.

//bc

[Another_Drummer]

That's funny that you say that. My transmission guy said that he's contemplating opening up a classic cars shop only. He said that transmissions are so too complicated and electronic these days. It's only getting worse....or better....i guess that depends on your view. I think the men and women who dig their hands in these things on a daily basis should have some design input in these things. My guy was also telling me what to buy next time when it comes to transmission durability. I think I'm going to get rid of this Trooper soon. It's a decent car...but I need something now with a warranty and gets better gas mileage. I filled up this morning for $60, and I have to fill up twice a week....it's eating my lunch.

As far as my transmission...since it's been rebuilt and since they replaced the solenoids...it's worked just fine. I still need to change the O2 sensors, and I need to check the brake sensors, or get new pads. Sometimes I think I feel it jump a little in the shift....but then again, I'm not sure if I'm just being paranoid, or if it's really happening. The trans shop said it looks fine and it's not spitting out any mechanical codes....it's spitting out the O2 sensor code and an undocumented transmission code (related to the O2 sensors).

[Another_Drummer]

That's funny that you say that. My transmission guy said that he's contemplating opening up a classic cars shop only. He said that transmissions are so too complicated and electronic these days. It's only getting worse....or better....i guess that depends on your view. I think the men and women who dig their hands in these things on a daily basis should have some design input in these things. My guy was also telling me what to buy next time when it comes to transmission durability. I think I'm going to get rid of this Trooper soon. It's a decent car...but I need something now with a warranty and gets better gas mileage. I filled up this morning for $60, and I have to fill up twice a week....it's eating my lunch.

As far as my transmission...since it's been rebuilt and since they replaced the solenoids...it's worked just fine. I still need to change the O2 sensors, and I need to check the brake sensors, or get new pads. Sometimes I think I feel it jump a little in the shift....but then again, I'm not sure if I'm just being paranoid, or if it's really happening. The trans shop said it looks fine and it's not spitting out any mechanical codes....it's spitting out the O2 sensor code and an undocumented transmission code (related to the O2 sensors).

[Area51dude]

Guys, as someone who works in the industry, let me apologize for what you've gone through....

first... there's no such thing as an "undocumented code", period. if someone can say that with a straight face you need to get your car out of their shop immediately.

DTC's, ( "trouble codes" ) come in two flavors, universal, and manufacturer-specific.

codes that start with a "0" are universal, that is, they mean the same thing whether they pop up in a Buick, a Ford, or an Isuzu.

codes that start with a "1" are manufacturer, and sometimes model specific codes.

You can get all manufacturer specific codes at www.obd-codes.com

If someone running a shop can't tell you what a code means, they certainly don't understand what a "trouble tree" is, and they're just going to toss parts at your car until you run out of money, or they get lucky.

There is NO code that says " if you get this code replace transmission".

The service manual for Isuzus advises technicians to narrow down a trans concern systematically -

first, Check the fluid level - the trans isn't dead until it's FULL and dead.

"metal in the pan" is a tactic that trans shops use to scare people into replacing GOOD transmissions. "Looks like a Chia Pet" leaves alot of leeway,
having some metal in the pan is normal - that's why there's a magnet ( why would you need one if there was never-ever-ever supposed to be metal there???)...

CHUNKS of metal in the pan is bad... if the guy is honest... or you watched him pull the pan... ( pretty easy to toss some shavings into a pan on the way up to tell you that you need to write the shop a check for a new bass boat, er... transmission...)

next, unplug the trans and shift manually through the gears - if the concern is still present, it's NOT wiring, or a computer, or a left rear seat heater module - it's in the trans.

The next step is a line pressure check.

Low line pressure = internal problem in trans = replace/rebuild it.

If a tech doesn't know what a line pressure check is, get your car out of his shop.

This doesn't take days of labor or cost thousands in parts. you're talking an hour or so. it's all in the service manual, it's not rocket science.

I really hope the OP is in California - they have this neat little organization called the "Bureau of Automotive Repair" - if a shop jerks you around like this in California you can report them to B.A.R. and watch them get their butts kicked into next week.

Good luck!

[atfdmike]

Well said, Area51dude! And Welcome!

[Lakeshow23]

Originally Posted by Area51dude

Guys, as someone who works in the industry, let me apologize for what you've gone through....

first... there's no such thing as an "undocumented code", period. if someone can say that with a straight face you need to get your car out of their shop immediately.

DTC's, ( "trouble codes" ) come in two flavors, universal, and manufacturer-specific.

codes that start with a "0" are universal, that is, they mean the same thing whether they pop up in a Buick, a Ford, or an Isuzu.

codes that start with a "1" are manufacturer, and sometimes model specific codes.

You can get all manufacturer specific codes at www.obd-codes.com

If someone running a shop can't tell you what a code means, they certainly don't understand what a "trouble tree" is, and they're just going to toss parts at your car until you run out of money, or they get lucky.

There is NO code that says " if you get this code replace transmission".

The service manual for Isuzus advises technicians to narrow down a trans concern systematically -

first, Check the fluid level - the trans isn't dead until it's FULL and dead.

"metal in the pan" is a tactic that trans shops use to scare people into replacing GOOD transmissions. "Looks like a Chia Pet" leaves alot of leeway,
having some metal in the pan is normal - that's why there's a magnet ( why would you need one if there was never-ever-ever supposed to be metal there???)...

CHUNKS of metal in the pan is bad... if the guy is honest... or you watched him pull the pan... ( pretty easy to toss some shavings into a pan on the way up to tell you that you need to write the shop a check for a new bass boat, er... transmission...)

next, unplug the trans and shift manually through the gears - if the concern is still present, it's NOT wiring, or a computer, or a left rear seat heater module - it's in the trans.

The next step is a line pressure check.

Low line pressure = internal problem in trans = replace/rebuild it.

If a tech doesn't know what a line pressure check is, get your car out of his shop.

This doesn't take days of labor or cost thousands in parts. you're talking an hour or so. it's all in the service manual, it's not rocket science.

I really hope the OP is in California - they have this neat little organization called the "Bureau of Automotive Repair" - if a shop jerks you around like this in California you can report them to B.A.R. and watch them get their butts kicked into next week.

Good luck!

Thank goodness for your post! I was tossing and turning in my chair reading every single post in this thread and down here towards the bottom I was getting ready to start scorching some mechanic booty until I arrived at your post.

The problem is not the Trooper so much as the mechanics he's dealing with. CO2 sensors having an effect on the transmission.

[ncgator]

We are having the same "stuttering" problem with our 2001 Trooper. It's at around 90K and had all the transmission fluid changed at 70K. Took it to our mechanic and no codes came up, but when he drove it, he said it was the transmission. We took it to a transmission guy, and he too said no codes came up. Like a few others, our trooper seems to have shifting changes around 35-45 range... most notably. It feels as if it can't make up its mind about being in 3rd (?) or 4th (?) gear... quickly shifting up and down. About 3 weeks ago, right about 40 mph, the trooper started making a rather loud rumbling sound... brrrhhh that lasts until you let off the acceleration. The sound was rare... happened only 1 -2 times per week, but now will happen nearly every time you drive. Overall, the problem appears to be happening more frequently. When the shifting problem emerges, it tend to go away with firm acceleration or letting off the gas, and then resuming normally again. The problem is also most noticeable when tackling a grade or driving up a hill. Our transmission guy drove it, and didn't notice anything. So, I'm wondering whether or not replacing the electronic shift module or the solenoids is the best option. If the trans is bad, as in parts or broke or wearing beyond normal, will the trooper give a code? Any thoughts as to why there are no codes? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[fourwd1]

A majority of the shifting type issues with the 4L30E auto on the 3.5L are due to the shifter mounted switch. It goes bad, and the tranny does all kinds of strange things, 'stuttering' included.
May or may not throw any codes, one could even be fooled into thinking it's an electrical problem.
Check out my reply near the begining of this thread for more.

[Bigdan430]

Hi, I am new to this forum and just read the above thread.

I have a 2000 Trooper that I bought new. I had the shudder problem years ago after traversing large hills with a car load of Scouts. I thought it was a heat shield vibrating and dismissed it. The Trooper needed a new transmission at 95K milles - paid in full by Isuzu under warranty after a little bit of a fight.

Now my Trooper has 134K and, agian, I have the dreaded shudder/grumbling noise between 35-45 mph, especially when going up slight grade. I took it to my transmission service place and they couldn't find anything wrong after driving and tests. I talked to them about the shudder, which they said was faint, but noticeable. We decided, even only 12K miles from last service, to go ahead and change the fluid/filter and ADD A SHUDDER FIX transmission additive. I picked up my Trooper yesterday and drove 60 miles since without hearing the grumbling or feeling any shudder.

I am never a big fan of additives to correct problems, but this seems to have helped - for now. I just diagnosed and replaced (myself) the intake manifolds gaskets (IMG -another problem with Troopers) and all CEL's are clear and free. I tend to keep cars until they are totally dead, but wonder if it is time to ditch the Trooper before a $2200 tranny rebuild is needed. If I notice the shudder again, I will replace the sensor mentioned here to see if that helps. Just thought I would throw out my experience for others to see. I too like my Trooper and now that I have recently put new tires, brakes, IMG, spark plugs, thermostat and cleared all codes - the old girl has the spunk as when new and even seems to be getting better gas mileage. Who knows how long I had the IMG problem.

Regards,

Dan

[Ramblin Fever]

I wouldn't give up on her yet. Are you downshifting when pulling steep grades, and/or using your power mode??

I currently have 183k flawless miles on my original auto transmission, with having pulled a heavy boat for 60% of her life up and over 11,000 foot inclines.

My range mode sensor did fail at 70k miles and was covered under warranty, have never had an issue since.

I do partial drain/refills of the ATF every 10-12k miles.