Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

[NOVA350SS630hp]

well fastest muscle car 60's -early 70's (72) the chevelle is the bad ass of bad asses, 450hp factory but in fact it was closer to 500 + hp now there is ZL1 and fords 428 and hemi and this and that and more or that then this, ok now ZL1 nobody can really match the ZL1 rated at 556 hp but really had more then 600hp and the new body ZL1 one web site shows one with 775hp. Now most guys would say but my ZO6 can beat old cars and it runs low 12s or whatever, now think how heavy the old cars are compare to the new ones of today and a vette come on a 440 charger runs high 11s on stock tires and a zo6 a stock zo6 runs low 12s now put that not lets put a LS6 motor from a 70 chevelle and put it in a zo6 body and think what it can run. now with todays cars all they did was drop the weight, and now use computers and now you can buy perf chips and this and that now most WOULD SAY THAT a 66 shelby cobra 427 is the fastest but then your leaving out the 66 427 vette stingray wich IN FACT , FACT people is faster and thee fastest, But why say that a LS6 chevelle is the fastest Well im sorry but not every could own a 66 427 vette stingray so got the next best thing LS6 chevelle but all in all in not about the fastest is muscle cars rule the streets and will always rule doesnt matter gas prices to go cruz on the open road then to punch it there is nothing like a real muscle car ford , GM, doesnt matter

[balls_to_the_wall]

Is this thread considered dead yet...it seems like weeks between posts...it was started in july....how bout it just gets killed?

[FortechMini11]

ZL1's fastest tested ET was a 10.14 @ 132mph

[victimizati0n]

what about the ZL-1?

im quite sure it was faster than the chevelle

[im4abj]

i seen in alot of magzines that the 66 shelby cobra 427 because it had alot of power with very little weight, i think its like 1 hp per 3 pounds or something like that

[bowties4everamen]

The Hurst Hemi dart is without a doubt, the fastest ever built by Detroit. Right out of the box it ran in the 9's. In comparision, the Ls6 Heavy Chevy, was the last of the greats. Its the pinicale of the horsepower wars the big 3 were having and the federal government killed all the fun in 1971 when the insurance industry and EPA got their hooks into the industry.

[laffn69chevelle]

the fastest production car i hate to say was a buick gsx right off the show room floor or a olds w30 or 31 i'm not sure about the #'s on olds but i know it was one of those two cars they did a test a while back and the buick was the fastest out of all the muscle cars in their time.

[Ground Rat]

Originally Posted by im4abj

i seen in alot of magzines that the 66 shelby cobra 427 because it had alot of power with very little weight, i think its like 1 hp per 3 pounds or something like that

The magazines that say the '66 Cobra was the fastest don't even take into account the ZL-1 Corvette, or the '69 Yenko 427 Nova. The Corvette is not a muscle car, but the Nova is. The Nova hit 10s with headers and rubber.

[Ground Rat]

Originally Posted by balls_to_the_wall

Well...if they just wanted one of the fastest cars made in the 60's early 70's...a hemi dart would have made their day...10.3 on contemporary rubber, and now they are breaking into the 8 second zone.

Those factory hemi darts and 'cudas were not street legal.

[wedgemotor]

Ok let me first say that you all have valid points on the fastest musclecar. But I will try to make a general statement as to why I think the LS6 is king. I know first off that I have generally been a Mopar guy my whole life and had many arguments about this before defending certain cars, but the one that always comes out on top is the 70 LS6, and here is why.
Most people would agree that the first musclecar was the 64 gto. Most people would agree that the last musclecar was the 74 SD Trans Am, or other 74 cars such as 74 GTX package Road runners, 360 cars, either way if you assume this than you are talking about the period of 64-74.
Yeah I know about "late" musclecars but I am making a generalization. Chevrolet produced over 2200 LS6 Chevelles, as a "packaged musclecar". That would definately put it in a mass production state.
My experiences of seeing musclecars over the years have brought me to believe that this car was and is still the car to beat, this may piss alot of people off, especially my Mopar bretheren. Why not a Hemi? Simple. Assuming you put up a HemiCuda. The fastest road test I have seen ran a 13.10. I have never seen a stock Hemicuda run this. In all of my years, at the Mopar Drag races, never. I have seen an LS6 chevelle run a 12.90 and this was in the 80's before all of these Buicks came out. They never ran 12's stock back in the day, even though NHRA refactored their 360hp rating to 400, because they were whipping people with the stage 1. Personally the fastest "Stock" car I have ever seen run was a 68 GTO RAII. I looked it over and even talked to the owner and it ran a 12.51, and drove to the track and back, with 3.55 safe-t-track rear. Anyway I think as a whole that the majority of LS6 Chevelles are the fastest mass produced musclecars. I can hear the replies-

[MrPbody]

Wedgemotor,
Good for you! Logic overrides emotion! I get a bit of razzing for that one!
But seriously, I've been wracking my brain, trying to remember. I recall a commercial ad for the '70 Super Bee 6-Pack. They claimed the car would go 12s or your money back! I also recall the ad, where the guy grabbed the gears and made a 12.80 pass.
I have also never seen a true STOCK Hemi car go 12s. Usually, it's traction issues, more than power or handling. Some good slicks on them, and watch it! But the statement about slicks could be applied to all of them. I know of at least two '65 GTO TriPower cars that went 12.60 with no changes other than slicks. They were 4.33/4-speed cars, so they were intended to go FAST in a 1/4 mile. I know of a low 11 second SS454 Chevelle with slicks and gears, still has iron exhaust.
At Indy this year, there was a D/SA '67 Firebird 400 running 10.70 all weekend. That's slicks, headers, gears and other traction equipment, STOCK engine, right down to the correct Q-Jet and points. If that car can run THAT HARD, imagine what a 454 Chevelle can do with similar mods. I guess NHRA factored them to death, or they would be dominant.
FWIW

Jim

[wedgemotor]

I am glad you understand where I am coming from pbody. I know that given all the right circumstances a Hemi car can't lose... but I was talking about a musclecar package though. Six pack cars are hard to beat. I know of a guy in Ohio who has, two V-code 70 challengers and both cars run 13.5 ets on polyglass tires and both cars are stock, (I saw the rebuild) and run 3.55 sure grips with a torque flight. Here is the kicker, one of them has never been rebuilt! It is also a convertible! I believe they only made about 40 or so. cool stuff!

[mokicruz]

The Nova with the 396 and L88 heads from the Factory was the fastest at our drag strip. He ran high 11's all the time there were several Hemi Cuda's that ran there but they never could hook up very well.There was a real fast "72" GS Buick with a 455. That also broke into the 11's . This was a Pure stock class we ran in only slicks and gearing could be used to improve performance. Who was fastest at your drag strip? Magazines are cool with alot of info but from one year to the next no one agrees about How the competion should be ran or who's the fastest. I just go by who blew my Doors off.

[Autofreefindersguy]

This may be an old thread, but were taking GREAT American history here!

Good stuff guys!

[wedgemotor]

Originally Posted by tim1950

Muscle Car Definition

Introduction:

Perhaps the most common question people have is what exactly is a muscle car. The term wasn't even used until the late 1970s, in the 1960s there were often called "Super Cars" if called anything at all. Therefore, the actual definition of a muscle car, or which models were muscle cars, is a topic that is often disputed. Here is the general interpretation of what is a muscle car and what cars qualify, and which don't.


Vehicle
Muscle Car?
Classification
Notes
AMC AMX
Yes
Pony Car
Even though it only has two seats, because it is based on the Javalin, it is a muscle car
AMC Javalin
No
Pony Car
Only the AMX variation or big block V8s are considered muscle cars
Buick GS
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
Based on Buick Skylark
Buick Riviera
No
Personal Luxury Car
Too expensive and big
Buick Skylark (non-GS)
No
Intermediate Car
Only GS versions are considered muscle cars
Buick Wildcat
No
Fullsize Car
Too large
Chevrolet Camaro
Yes
Pony car
Only SS and Z28 models are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle SS
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle (non-SS)
No
Intermediate
Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Corvette
No
Sports Car
The two seats, fiberglass body, and high price make it a sports car.
Chevrolet Impala SS
Yes
Fullsize Muscle Car
Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
No
Personal Luxury
Too expensive
Chevrolet Nova
Yes
Compact Car
Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chrysler 300 Letter Cars
No
Personal Luxury
Way too expensive and luxurious
Dodge Challenger
Yes
Pony Car
Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Charger
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Coronet
Yes
Fullsize Muscle Car
Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Dart
Yes
Compact
Only Darts with 383 or 440 engines are considered muscle cars
Dodge Daytona
Yes
Specialty Muscle Cars
-
Dodge Super Bee
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
-
Ford Fairlane / Torino GT/Cobra
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
Only GT and Cobra models are considered muscle cars
Ford Galaxie
Yes
Fullsize muscle
Only Galaxies with 390 engines or larger are considered muscle cars
Ford Mustang
Yes
Pony Car
GTs, Mach 1's and Boss Mustangs are considered muscle cars
Mercury Comet / Cyclone
Yes
Intermediate
Only GTs and Cyclones are considered muscle cars
Mercury Cougar
Yes
Pony Car
Only GTs, Eliminators, and Boss engine models are considered muscle cars
Oldsmobile 442
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
-
Oldsmobile Cutlass
No
Intermediate
Only 442 models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth Barracuda
No
Pony car
Only 'Cuda models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth 'Cuda
Yes
Pony car
'Cudas with 340s are generally not considered muscle cars
Plymouth Duster
Yes
Compact Muscle Car
Only Dusters with 340s are considered muscle cars
Plymouth GTX
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
-
Plymouth Road Runner
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
-
Plymouth Superbird
Yes
Specialty Muscle Car
-
Pontiac Catalina 2+2
Yes
Fullsize Muscle Car
Only Catalinas with 400+ cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Firebird
Yes
Pony Car
Only Firebirds with 400 cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Grand Prix
No
Personal Luxury
Too expensive
Pontiac GTO
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
The first true muscle car

Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:

A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.

Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO

Fullsize Muscle Car:

The strict definition only includes intermediate size vehicles. In reality, performance oriented intermediate size vehicles didn't appear until 1964. Before then, manufacturers took existing fullsize vehicles and added extra performance to them. Because of this, the early fullsize performance vehicles are generally considered muscle cars.

Examples: Chevrolet Impala (SS only), Ford Galaxie (with 390 + cid engines only), Dodge Coronet (R/Ts only), etc.

Pony Cars and Compact Cars:

In addition to fullsize and intermediate muscle cars, a number of smaller vehicles started appearing on the automotive performance scene. These new "pony cars" and compact cars are generally considered muscle cars only if they have the top of the line performance engines and options.

Examples: Chevrolet Camaro (SS and Z28 models only), Ford Mustang (GTs and Boss only), Plymouth 'Cudas (no Barracudas), AMC Javelin, etc.

Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:

Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.

Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, Monte Carlo etc.

Two Seat Sports Cars:

Two seat sports cars such as the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird are not considered muscle cars due to their high price and specialty nature. The only exception is the AMC AMX as it was relatively cheap, and was based on the AMC Javalin pony car.

Examples: AMC AMX, etc.

All material © Copyright 2003 by Musclecarclub.com

So by your definition, any nova ss is a musclecar, I guess that means the early 6-cylinders too, and my car is not a muscle car nor a pony car, a 70 Dart Swinger 340, hello you forgot about the little engine that could. Anyway we all pretty much get the idea though.