aftermarket header for '90 SiR, worth it?

[bracer]

Is it worth it to buy an aftermarket header for a SiR?
I understood that the factory SIR header is already pretty good and that an aftermarket one would not make much difference, true? or BS?
I want to upgrade my complete exhaust line with a Supersprint setup, Supersprint has a header specific for he 4th gen. CRX/Civic SiR but $550 is a lot of cash which I don't want to pay for zero result.

Any experiences with aftermarket headers on a SiR? Moppie? Setanta?

here's the link
http://www.supersprint.com/a_prodott...odello=honciv4

thanks.

[Moppie]

Hmm, well I certianly wouldn't bother on my car, any gains would be very minimal, and probobly barly noticable.

I'll put it to you this way, I saw an Ex Works EF9 rally car the other day and it was still running factory headers.


However, and heres a catch, your car has 10 less hp than mine. And I dont think anyone has ever totaly worked out where it went. Its possible that the EDM EF9 has differnt headers.

Easy way to tell, show me a pic of your car with out the heat shield. I can't get mine off, but I have seen enough stock headers to know what they look like.

[Setanta]

If I was going to put any headers on an B16A it would be Integra Type-R headers. They are designed to flow 195+ bhp and would work well in conjunction with cams, throttle body etc. My reasoning is that it's known that they work as part of the package to achieve that power, others are simply designer's claims based on their own dyno results.

I was under the impression that the EE9's b16A was down the 10bhp of the EF9 b16A based on engine management and fuel in the '90s. I'd love to know the complete story there too.

Currently I'm looking into swapping proven Honda parts onto my b16a - not mag-racer parts

ITR headers first (it has a heatshield so it will look close to stock ), CTR cams and valvetrain, better exhaust without the damn pipe bends in it ex-factory (but keeping the SiR tips), adjustable cam wheels and throttle body. I won't guess at power increase as I'm a follower of the concept that power increases are the sum of all parts - not 10-15bhp per part mag-racer style

[bracer]

hmm I'm not convinced ..yet
A lot of people over here with SiR's seem to believe in the gains of a Supersprint setup. It's a respectable brand over here which isn't very known outside Europe I guess? I would like to see some before and after dyno results but can't find them.
The shop where I got the prices from said that I will gain A LOT of low end power with that header
Off course ITR or CTR parts would be nice, but they are extremely rare here so extremely $$$$

And about the hp difference, there was a discussion about it on the old PH, the "conclusion" of that discussion was that the difference was based on engine management, fuel, and different ignition timing. I saved that discussion on my hard drive If you want I can upload it so you can read it again.
And the difference is only 8hp, not 10

Moppie, I will take a pic of my header but I'm pretty sure it's the same.

BTW, I just realized I went from 90 to 150hp just 2 months ago and already I'm looking for more

[Moppie]

Ahhh, you can never have to much hp!! (well up untill about 200, then it starts to get silly in such a light car)

Anyway, you dont want to increase lowend power, you shouldn't be useing it for anything more than driving between lights.
Its above 6,000rpm that things get exciting in our cars, and that's were you want any improvments to be.

Personaly I think putting headers on any post 90 Japanese car (except nissan) is a waste of time. Unless your changing things like cams then there is really nothing to be gained, all you end up doing is altering the power curve. (often for the worse)



Now, a we bit about putting ITR and CTR stuff in B16a and B18c's.

Be carefull, I was talking to the Honda head mechanic down here yesterday and he has just put ITR pistons, cams, and valves springs etc into a B18c. Used the B18c head, intake and exhaust and got well over 210hp at the crank. However the compresion was so high the thing wanted to destroy itself, so it was wound back to only 203hp.
But it still knocks, and required a VAFC to set the fuel and timing to cope.

[ricodemus]

Originally posted by Moppie
Now, a we bit about putting ITR and CTR stuff in B16a and B18c's.

Be carefull, I was talking to the Honda head mechanic down here yesterday and he has just put ITR pistons, cams, and valves springs etc into a B18c. Used the B18c head, intake and exhaust and got well over 210hp at the crank. However the compresion was so high the thing wanted to destroy itself, so it was wound back to only 203hp.
But it still knocks, and required a VAFC to set the fuel and timing to cope.

Damn, your breaking my heart! I was looking forward to some ctr/itr cams,pistons and valves, etc in the near future.

[Setanta]

Swapping CTR pistons in will raise the compression way to high. I was told to stick with the factory ones or aftermarket pistons for the B16A. The other mods are still legit - there's an EK Civic running the setup nearby and has been flywheel dynoed at 197bhp. Same place that does the turboing of 10-12 second 'tegs and Civics.

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Setanta
Swapping CTR pistons in will raise the compression way to high.

Thats exactly why I said becareful.
The engine I described might have lots of peak HP, but the power curve is crap because the timeing is so far retarded, and it has a very short life expectancy. In the end a B18cR would be a better engine, even its short 10hp.

ricodemus putting CTR or ITR pistons in a B16a might sound like fun, but to make it work you really need either a CTR head, or to get your head machined to lower the CR to a useable level. (especialy on the low octane US gas)

[ricodemus]

pistons would have been way down the road if it all, but I was mainly thinking about cams and cam gears.