Civic vs 1g FWD DSM?

flip888 · 08-30-2007, 08:12 PM

I want a car for pure road racing. I already have my drag car and im not even in any way excited with it at all. My friend has a sr20det s15, it dynod 330whp and is more fun than anything ive ever been in. He has a very nice suspension and the power band is so wide its ridiculous. I have never had so much fun in a car. He has a "car club" that goes auto-xing every weekend. Theres a civic with a b18, a 1st gen n/a mr2, a couple integras, a wrx, and another 240sx with a "ca18det". All these cars have basically stock motors but highly modified suspensions, and theyre %100 more fun to drive than any 1/4 mile car hands down.

Ive narrowed my choices over the last few months to a 89-91 civic hatch, and a 1g FWD turbo DSM. They are both pretty light. The civic is lighter and more reliable but the DSM has much more power potential.

Im guessing the civic will probably handle a bit better and the DSM will be a little faster in the straits. The DSM will be using a 16g probably and have about 280WHP, i have a donor car that made 250AWHP on pump gas. And the civic will be getting the same turbo setup and on a stock motor probably will make just over 210FWHP (my friend has built/tuned about a thousand of these turbo systems for hondas he knows what hes doing)

The main reason i like the idea of the DSM is that its an amazing motor that i know a lot about and 300whp is not at all hard to get out of one of these GSTs but the reliability is dastardly, its rare to see a modified dsm past 150k anymore it seems. and a used 4g63t is about $1500 around here. And i have to admit they are very expensive to maintain.

The civic, i personally have one that has the original motor with 340,000 miles on it (im not modifying this one). Its reliability is amazing. Plus with merely 200whp they have gone well into the 11's with pure drag cars. and have even ran 9's with only 300whp. With a turbo (I have all the needed parts to turbo a civic already) these things are bundles of fuckin fun.

The civic in the long run will have a better power to weight ratio, so in theory it will be faster in all aspects and more reliable. Come to think of it, it will be a lot cheaper to replace its motor and trans if need be as well. But i love DSMs.

I understand how important weight is and i know that the civic is the faster of the 2 when it comes to this type of racing but, well everyone is telling me civic for the bang for your buck aspect. im telling myself DSM for the, i dont know, DSM aspect.

Maybe the right decision will be more clear to you guys. Im simply confused out the ass with this whole decision i have to make.

sickcallawayc12 · 08-30-2007, 10:24 PM

I would think the Civic would be easier to make lighter.

flip888 · 08-30-2007, 11:20 PM

Thats true, plus if i crash it (and i will) things will be cheaper to replace. plus with the dsm, well most any FWD car 280whp is a lot to deal with. im leaning twords the civic

silentscreams85 · 08-31-2007, 12:10 AM

+1 for the civic. Not that the 1st gen DSM is a bad choice, but in this case the Civic is better. Cheap, light, lots of parts available, and reliability is ALWAYS a plus on the track or off.

flip888 · 09-01-2007, 08:12 PM

the only problem with the civic is that it requires either a built motor or a b16 swap (i like b16) and a turbo to get more than 225~whp, whereas the dsm only needs a turbo swap and supporting mods and it can see 400whp (my 20g auto dsm is making around 350whp on pump with a rich tune). but a gutted civic b16 with an E316g turbo making 325whp weighing 1800lbs, although expensive would make a car that even a 450whp 2800lb gt35r 2.4l gutted awd dsm (way more expensive) couldnt hang with streightline or in a turn. and a b16 is a lot cheaper to replace than an ultra rare 4g63t.

flip888 · 09-01-2007, 08:14 PM

not the only problem is finding a hatch on craigslist for under $700. Im actualy thinking of going 4-door. theyre only like 150lb heavier and a lot of that is in the interior.

sickcallawayc12 · 09-01-2007, 08:34 PM

For one, I don't think speed shouldn't be a huge concern for road racing and second, with a really lightweight Honda, you won't need that much power and torque to get going. Still better choice.

flip888 · 09-02-2007, 07:34 PM

i think the pros of the civic are the light weight, riliability, avalibility of cheap aftermarket parts, the power potential with a swapped motor, and the fact that i would be spending a lot less and doing a lot less work.
the only cons are that the stock motor is only capable of around 250ish whp max. and to swap a b16 in its pretty expensive.

The only real good thing about the dsm is that it can make a lot more power on a stock motor, and it also has a big aftermarket, even though the supporting mods for a 350 whp car will be a lot more expensive than for a 210whp car.

I have been reading on a lot of honda forums and people there have swapped d16 motors from 5th gen civics and they are capable of around 300whp max. and that swap is extremely cheap and easy. so i think in the short run and the long run a civic is the best choice.

Moppie · 09-04-2007, 12:08 AM

The only thing the DSM has going for it is an easy motor to turbo.
But to much power to any FWD just gets turned into smoke and understeer.

Since its your first foray into competitive motorsport my advice would be to keep it cheap and simple.
Start with a Civic, and spend a little bit of money on the suspension and engine.

Then if you decide you really enjoy it, you can work out how much you are prepared to start committing to it.

But just remember that hp costs money, and its a never ending pursuit.

alphalanos · 09-28-2007, 09:47 AM

I have a 96 4 door civic and its a lot of fun to drive. The weight is supposed to be around 2600 with me in it. Easy to work on and because its light it doesnt take a lot to make it handle/be fast. Im planning on a b18c1 swap in the future.

flip888 · 10-06-2007, 09:54 AM

I baught a 1990 civic hatch and did a mpfi swap (multi port fuel injection) and put a 14b turbo on and had it tuned by a shop by where i live. it was extremely gutted, and it handled pretty good even on stock suspension and was VERY fast for only making 150hp. i paid $600 for the car (220,000 miles) and about $100 on the mpfi and about $300 on the turbo+tuning. but i blew the motor after like a week of getting it tuned. i was pretty pissed.

From all this i learned that i really dont care for FWD much. I would like to get into a 240sx but those are rediculasly expensive around here for some reason. so im just going to stick with the civic.

alphalanos · 10-06-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip888

i paid $600 for the car (220,000 miles) and about $100 on the mpfi and about $300 on the turbo+tuning. but i blew the motor after like a week of getting it tuned. i was pretty pissed.

Ive heard of being on a budget, but what did you expect?

flip888 · 10-07-2007, 10:51 AM

Well, I got out of it way more than what i expected. I was just pissed that i payed $140 for a tune and the motor blew a week later. That cheap pos car kept up with my friends evo (to an extent) from a 20mph roll. and if I had a little suspension work done it probably could have killed it on the back roads.
Stock it weighed around 2250lbs with me in it. but with all the work we did gutting it and everything it probably weighs around 1900 with me in it now. were at least hoping its that light.

My friend has a gutted 1986 crx with a turbocharged b16. it weighs under 1700lbs with him in it. Its ridiculous how fast that thing is.

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