corolla ae86 vs 240sx

[engineer]

what the guy said before about corolla being more responsive could be correct in this way - take autoX, touge and circuits - in these situations, going from turning hard left to hard right (like slalom) is often required.... considering that the 2 cars (ae86 & 240sx) have the same basic layout (FR), and the only difference is about 500lb, the lighter car will be more responsive, relative to inertia, momentum, impulse and such.

[Layla's Keeper]

Until you consider that the Corolla is taller, narrower, and softer sprung with smaller diameter sway bars, not to mention the two cars have very different suspension geometry.

Center of gravity and suspension geometry are two very critical things to consider when talking about a car's handling characteristics. Not to mention let's discuss stock tires for the two cars. True, we're not talking Z rated Gatorbacks on either car, but the difference between the 14" wheels and I believe 165/60 tires on the AE86 compared to 15" wheels and 195/60's on the 240SX base model gives the 240SX a distinct advantage in handling stats. Not necessarily feel, but certainly in performance.

[Wolfwood]

Anyone know if the s14 240sx has the same suspension problems that lead to the "plowing understeer", that the s13 has? Thanks

[Layla's Keeper]

The S14 actually has several major improvements over the S13 in its chassis stock for stock.

The list of improvements reads as follows.

- wider track
- 120lb per inch front coil springs as opposed to 102
- 27mm front sway bar as opposed to 25mm
- SE model received 205/55R16 tires as opposed to S13's SE model 205/60R15's.

Even though S14's weigh in at 2813lbs compared to the S13's 2730lbs, they have markedly sharper turn in and much more neutral handling. The only downside to an S14 is that the base models do not have the SE's available 16mm rear sway bar. All S13's had this, except for fastback SE models which had a 21mm rear sway bar.

This and more interesting information on the Nissan 240SX can be found in the December 2003 issue of Grassroots Motorsports magazine, which had a 7 page article outlining the history, setup, specs, and tuning tips for Nissan 240SX's.

[Wolfwood]

Thank you so much for the information!

[TatII]

s14 ownz you! lolz j/p my car handles great compared to crappy handling cars. but compared to great handling cars, it just handles so so. i have a very stiff suspension setup and as long as the road is smooth, it handles great. but since i live in nyc. the roads are like craters. and this car takes bumps like shit. esp with the stiff suspension. so that is exactly what layla keeper said.

[Neutrino]

Excellent poits layla, but I would like to add that there is one other way to fix or at least atenuate the problems like the plow understeer of the 240sx: Very fast response suspension, this should keep the front wheels in check without the use of very stiff setups and all their problems. Of course those systems come from big guys like ohlin/moton/penske... and cost and arm and a leg plus the cost of proper tuning and they will still suffer from the bad geometry. The use of such suspension allowed the EVO MR to come softer sprung that the rest of the evo VIII series.

Oh and another question Layla, are you sure F1 cars use carbon blades for suspension because I could swear I saw pushrod style suspension on them when they had the shell off.

[Layla's Keeper]

Okay, Neutrino, you're close but far away on the F1 suspension. F1 suspensions, nowadays, no longer use the complex pushrod bellcrank damper setups popular during the time of Mansell and Senna. Today's cars actually use torsion bars connected directly to the pushrods for damping whereas the suspension arm itself is the spring. It's a much lighter setup (seriously, delete the coil-over and you've taken a couple of pounds off the car) and offers much better control over the damping/spring rate. Plus this way the FIA knows no-one is using computer controlled active suspension.

[Neutrino]

Thanks for the update Layla, It seems that i was out of date.

[gts013]

"And, in reality, neither is a particularly good handling car at the price."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ain't that the truth.

[Wolfwood]

Haha, I'm going to necro this old thread (I'm the OP btw). I haven't logged in in several years and found this thread randomly in a search.
Anyway, sometime after this thread I bought the AE86. It was nearly showroom condition, red, hatch, gt-s, bone stock and no options. I got a fair price from the daughter of the original (lady) owner. Loved it! Loved the way it drove (never got a chance to try the 240sx though). Kept it for about four years, then sold it to pay for my last year of college (for nearly twice what I paid.
It's been ~4/5 years since I parted with it and I started looking for another one that was as nice, but I don't see any clean, original cars anymore. Mine was "concours d'elegance" condition compared to stuff that's 3x the price now and totally molested. Oh well, fun memories anyway. I would love to post pics but they are on an ancient inactive Sanyo Katana II w/ no way to get them off.
Thanks for letting me reminisce. I know gravedigging threads is bad form. But, at least if someone stumbles upon it they can see how the story ended, and it was fun for me to tell. Cheers!